TUCSON, ARIZONA

[urbanphx]

Originally Posted by Phoenix Ashes

Tucson tore down half its historic barrio in the late 60s for an ugly convention center. I often wonder what it would be like (more Santa Fe, less Albuquerque?) if it was still there. The city itself has been swamped in recent years by Republicans who like McMansions with Disney desert landscaping. Edward Abbey once wrote that Tuscon is a bright but doomed city. The doom is the cancerous growth on the edges.

Albuquerque isn't such a bad place? How can any city still feel like Santa Fe with a soon-to-be 1 million+ metro population number? I think Tucson and Albuquerque both balance that pretty well ...

* In ABQ, the Commuter rail system is nearly running, and the proposed light-rail system is nearly on the ballot - It's a very progressive place, for a city it's size. Being 'more ABQ' isn't a bad thing, at all.

[Phoenix Ashes]

I often think of Albuquerque's and Tucson's similarities: major state university, middle-sized, somewhat isolated, and lots of history. The juxtaposition with Santa Fe was a bit of a dig, since both Tucson and Albuquerque clearly want to be bigger and better than their humble origins.

The charm of both places has been severely compromised by that ambition. Still, I'm not sure either city could have survived without growth (Santa Fe is virtually congealed in the tony aspic of adobes owned by millionaires). When I see the forlorn dead zone that downtown Tucson has become, I do wonder if things could have worked out a bit differently.

A long time ago, I was a student at the University of Arizona, and I recall the magic of downtown. There was an Edward Hopper feeling to it, the phosphorescence of decay, yet alive in ways that no suburban schlock development ever is. The local booster mafia - car dealers, land speculators, etc - decided Tucson should be more like a big city and thus began the irreversible process of disenchantment.

[Skyland]

Phoenix Ashes: I agree with you, however, its not that bad: 4th avenue, Main Gate Square and a slowly re-vitalized Congress street still give Tucson a special atmosphere. As both the Rialto and the Fox theaters are re-opening during the next year, there will be even more life downtown - and of course there is the Rio Nuevo project which hopefully will be successful. I am optimistic for Tucson.

[Phoenix Ashes]

Skyland, as much as I love 4th Avenue, and the small portion of Congress Street hipsters have kept alive, my overall sense of downtown Tucson is a bit like visiting a lifelong friend lying on a slab in a morgue. As far as Rio Nuevo goes, I'm doubtful. Renewal projects usually find a way of going too far or not far enough. In older, more developed cities, the results often involve a Rouse Company project - the inevitable "festival marketplace" - or the alien implantation of a suburban template (think of the Denver Pavillions). In smaller cities, like Tucson, the effects can be more dangerous. The downtown core is too small to be both preserved and somehow enlivened.

If I were King, and not merely a blowhard, I'd emphasize adaptive reuse of every building underperforming its function. Historic preservation is pretty much a safe guide here, but our scope needs to be broadened to those 50s and 60s buildings as well. I would forge an alliance with the University architecture department to find solutions for the more troublesome properties. The key here is respecting the downtown Tucson has, not wishing it away in a flurry of new construction. If new construction actually does find a market in Tucson, it will likely be more grounded in a respect for Tucson's originial urbanism.

The last thing Tucson needs is an aquarium or ballpark where denser urban fabric once was. Cities themselves are magic. The fool's gold of "attractions" won't even bewitch the suburbanites after the 2nd or 3rd visit.

[Raleigh-NC]

Fantastic photos Tucson seems to be a very beautiful city!!!

[Skyland]

Originally Posted by Phoenix Ashes

The last thing Tucson needs is an aquarium or ballpark where denser urban fabric once was. Cities themselves are magic. The fool's gold of "attractions" won't even bewitch the suburbanites after the 2nd or 3rd visit.

Yes, I agree totally - a fishbowl in the desert does not make sense at all. Fortunately they actually abandoned that idea.
Also ballparks dont revitalize a city - a city is comprised of a good mix of appartment buildings, small quality shops, bars and restaurants. I dont know why people dont try to copy Europe a little bit. The restaurants and bars should move their tables outside on the sidewalk and downtown would look more lively and friendly. Any small town in Europe (even Northern European cities) is able to do that - why not Tucson or Phoenix? These people are so behind - it looks like Europe in the 50ies. Considering the climate this city should have an outdoor-city atmosphere in the nights just like cities in the Mediteranean or also Eastern Europe. Germany for instance is full with Beer gardens that make downtowns lively in the nights and afternoons, France has its cafes. The only thing the leaders here are concerned is the misuse of alcohol - in Europe alcohol is not a sin but a way to socialize, to have fun. People enjoy their cities. I hate this car-based, air-conditioned protected lifestyle here. It is so anonymous, so super un-urban. I wonder why people like that... Hopefully that is just a bad period and people will return to real life. Another idea would be to remove the asphalt in the Barrio Historico and instead use cobblestone - like in all European cities - that increases the value enormously and does not costs much. However, there is a tendency in US cities to not invest anything into heritage... All the money goes into 8-lanes highways and flyovers. Well, things would be so easy to change - just travel to Italy, to Spain, to Turkey, to Ireland... Honestly, I am probably more frustrated than you since I am originally from Europe and I know how real cities look and feel like. But since I am an optimist I believe it can only become better for both Tucson and Phoenix... Particularly Tucson has potential and still I adore its Adobe architecture and its desert setting - thats unique in the world.

[Phoenix Ashes]

Skyland, Tucson has some of the world's most glorious topography. Back in the late 60s, hippies used to flock there because of its "energy vortex", whatever that is. For myself, I was delighted by the stray flecks of funk and the wrinkles of time. When I go there today, the magic is mostly gone. Some of this could be normal aging, but I sense the loss of something too wonderful for words.

Outside Albuquerque is a quaint museum/roadside attraction called Tinkertown (take Rt 14 east of Albuquerque - it sits at the base of Sandia). It's a celebration of Americana which encapsulates the homeliness, charm, and simplicity of a bygone era (bygone meaning pre-1960s). When I struggle to translate my sense of loss about Tucson, I usually come back to Tinkertown. Nostalgia is a trap of sorts, but there ought to be a way to figure out what we love and why. Tinkertown helped me remember Tucson by reduction. Not the way it looked (there are photos for that), or the people (people are stubbornly people-like wherever), but the mood and feel.

Today, the aspirations and dreams of cities could be any other city's dreams. The designs might come out of a architect's office in Santa Ana or Tel Aviv. The sense of Tucson today is interchangeable with virtually every other city its size in the developed world: big box stores, huge parking lots, housing pods of minimal character, and landscaping that you could find in Perth. Tucson is being swallowed by the vortex (that word again) of Phoenix. Soon it will be one end of a megalopolis. What defines Tucson will be the few geographic features civilization leaves unmolested - mostly the mountains.

Yes, there will be the old adobes and territorial mansions, the scattered craftsman bungalows, and a few indigenous vernacular buildings. But Tucson will be commodified and streamlined, so America's middle class won't suffer the anxiety of the different. I wish I could be more positive about the future (which strikes me as pretty horrible for just about everyone), but the portents are not there. Yeah, here and there we'll find some surviving embers, but the fire is banked and the glow is fading.

[i.q.ninja]

what is so great about Santa Fe?

[Phoenix Ashes]

Santa Fe is extremely expensive. It's one of those international playgrounds for the well-heeled and sophisticated now. Go in August when the Santa Fe Opera is in season and you might think Beverly Hills has transplanted itself.

I remember Santa Fe from 30 years ago when struggling artists could actually afford to live there. It looked the same as it does now, but was much nicer for being affordable. Lots of bohemians can be a leading indicator of the dreaded D word: desirability, and sure enough, Santa Fe became hideously expensive during the past decades. So have other places where bohemians used to live: Aspen, Colorado; La Jolla, Sausalito, Mill Valley, San Francisco, California; Greenwich Village, New York; Key West, Florida.

So what makes Santa Fe special? Gorgeous scenery, historical town square, lovely old adobes, wonderful art scene.

Not convinced? Stick to Epcot Center.

[VansTripp]

Originally Posted by Phoenix Ashes

Santa Fe is extremely expensive. It's one of those international playgrounds for the well-heeled and sophisticated now. Go in August when the Santa Fe Opera is in season and you might think Beverly Hills has transplanted itself.

I remember Santa Fe from 30 years ago when struggling artists could actually afford to live there. It looked the same as it does now, but was much nicer for being affordable. Lots of bohemians can be a leading indicator of the dreaded D word: desirability, and sure enough, Santa Fe became hideously expensive during the past decades. So have other places where bohemians used to live: Aspen, Colorado; La Jolla, Sausalito, Mill Valley, San Francisco, California; Greenwich Village, New York; Key West, Florida.

So what makes Santa Fe special? Gorgeous scenery, historical town square, lovely old adobes, wonderful art scene.

Not convinced? Stick to Epcot Center.

Yeah but not bad as in somewhere in Colorado.

How about Flagstaff?

[Phoenix Ashes]

Flagstaff is VERY expensive now, too. Arizona's mountain towns have all been discovered by immigrant Californians. In 1985, e.g., a Victorian house in downtown Prescott cost $50,000. Today, it will sell for $500,000, and probably more. Flagstaff and Prescott have picturesque town centers and it's easy to understand their appeal. Nonetheless, this being Arizona, the suburban development on the fringes of these towns can be pretty awful.

[VansTripp]

Originally Posted by Phoenix Ashes

Flagstaff is VERY expensive now, too. Arizona's mountain towns have all been discovered by immigrant Californians. In 1985, e.g., a Victorian house in downtown Prescott cost $50,000. Today, it will sell for $500,000, and probably more. Flagstaff and Prescott have picturesque town centers and it's easy to understand their appeal. Nonetheless, this being Arizona, the suburban development on the fringes of these towns can be pretty awful.

Please show pic of Flagstaff

[i.q.ninja]

Originally Posted by LA Lover

Please show pic of Flagstaff

For someone from L.A. you sure have a lot interest in other cities.

[VansTripp]

Originally Posted by i.q.ninja

For someone from L.A. you sure have a lot interest in other cities.

Why?

[jkmps]

ooo. i will be in seattle next month for about 5 days

it'll be bloody hot. but i'm looking forward to it

[streetscapeer]

Tucson is yummy

[AZian]

such a better city than phx

[VansTripp]

Originally Posted by AZian

such a better city than phx

What's wrong with Phoenix?

[SDfan]

Tuscan is cooler then Pheonix in that it has a better history, imo.

[Phoenix Ashes]

Tucson is always better than Phoenix but the sad fact remains that it's forever trying to emulate it. 30 years ago, Tucsonans were serious about controlling growth, protecting the desert, and establishing its own identity. The "greens" even enjoyed some measure of electoral success. All that's gone. Tucson reminds me of someone valiantly struggling with addiction - and then giving up.