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Old January 6th, 2011, 12:15 AM   #1661
Pansori
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I think it is simply impossible, considering the residential density of Chinese coastal regions. If you neglect the railways the congestion on the road would instantly get so bad that you would literally get stuck on the road for days until get evacuated by emergency services. So it's not like China has a choice.
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Old January 6th, 2011, 01:00 AM   #1662
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I think that it will be in China where will emerge completaly new transportation system. It will be sort of hybrid between train and automobile transport. It will combine the advantages of both and eliminate the disadvantages. As for now I see China as the only country that could achieve something like that in the nearby future.
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Old January 6th, 2011, 01:43 AM   #1663
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
View on Beijing (right) and Tianjin (left) from ISS:
nice shot by NASA. a 180 degree rotation of the pic will give the normal map orientation.
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Old January 7th, 2011, 08:02 PM   #1664
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Definitely agreed.

China will end up have the world's largest expressway network, HSR network and passenger air transport network. It just has the scale, size and population density to justify building all three networks. In addition, China will also have the world's largest metro systems.

The US has currently the largest expressway and air transport network, but will be difficult to sustain a large, national HSR network profitably.

Europe will probably come close to have all three networks at the same time compared to China, eventually.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Surel View Post
I think that it will be in China where will emerge completaly new transportation system. It will be sort of hybrid between train and automobile transport. It will combine the advantages of both and eliminate the disadvantages. As for now I see China as the only country that could achieve something like that in the nearby future.
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Old January 7th, 2011, 08:18 PM   #1665
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I think you need to see things in perspective. Of course China will have everything larger and more, simply because it dwarfs just about any country due to their population size (apart from India).

For example, to get the same motorway length/population ratio as the United States, China doesn't need 250.000 km of expressway but 430.000 kilometers of expressway.
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Old January 7th, 2011, 09:33 PM   #1666
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Right because the things are in perspective the propositions are as they are.

By the hybrid I dont mean combination of the rail and road network in the sence of changing the mode of transport. I mean new mode of transport that would be hybrid of rail and road. In that transport would veheicles work in the train (hsr) system in the long distance and in the road system in the short distance.

btw. I assume that in that time the transport would be completaly covered by electric energy and fossile fules would not be used. Certainly not in this hybrid system. As China has just mastered as I guess fourth country in the world the technology of reworking nuclear waste this became more realistic.

Imagine it as joining small electric units in a rail system, in the meantime recharging their batteries, when reaching some bigger common destination point leaving the train formation and switching to conventional road. The low distance radius of batteries would be solved. The recharging would be helped. Also the congestion problems would be helped a lot as the train would replace the drivers thus maximize the speed while minimize the space needed.

The infrastructure change and construction needs of such a system are however huge. Well, where else should it happen than in a country where Maglev is comercially operational.


I mean seriously people. It is nice to talk about railway or roads, however we should look bit to the future. Roads are there thousand years, rail two hundered, motorways around hundered. We need to move on to some other standard...
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Old January 7th, 2011, 10:30 PM   #1667
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You are essentially describing a pod system which the US started to experiment in the 70s and 80s, at the World Expo the GM Pavilion has a movie about a future Shanghai with such system.
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Old January 7th, 2011, 10:55 PM   #1668
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Nice to know that someone else thinks about it too... .
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Old January 8th, 2011, 01:04 AM   #1669
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Surel View Post
Nice to know that someone else thinks about it too... .
May I recommend that you take a look at Masdar City. A city that is under construction near Abu Dhabi right now. It uses this kind of transport. Very intresting to see how things will work out there.



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Old January 8th, 2011, 04:15 PM   #1670
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I like it.

Just few things that I would point out.


- how is solved the interaction of these automated pads with other moving or stationary objects that are not in the "map".

-Is there an viable plan to create trully universal transport mode system? I describe it more in detail to show what I mean. In the same veheicle would be combined these things.

long distance:
In between the cities it would mount an high speed platform (e.g. railway, maglev...etc), create a train structure, rely on externa electricity supply, and recharge its own battery at the same time. This network could be used either by private or public units.

in the city:
It would work in the public transport pod network like in the Masdar city. It would be recharging while in dock, or perhaps even while in motion (depends if the technology could provide it). The city transport could be perhaps be the combination of an open road system (like in Masdar - using tires, no chargin in motion) and closed system (using rails, maglev, etc - on longer distance, with higher speeds, charging in motion - network structure as trams or metro in todays cities, hubbing to to open road system now and then). Used either by private or public units.

the last mile:
Outside the city, inside the city, locations outside the open or closed network. Not automated or only semi automated driving. Using current road infrastructure. Distance up to the battery capacity. Charging only on spot in the end. Used eventually onnly by the private units, or "rented units".

The point is, that the same unit should be able to use all these systems and speeds. Perhaps the only difference could be that the public units would be limited to first two, while private and rentable units could also do the last mile.
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Old February 22nd, 2011, 06:44 AM   #1671
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
View on Beijing (right) and Tianjin (left) from ISS:

Is that really Tianjin on the left? Looks kinda close in the picture, I thought they would be farther apart.
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Old February 22nd, 2011, 06:53 AM   #1672
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Quote:
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Beijing's elevated highway tube was finished on 11.20. The 1800m highway tube was built to eliminate the noise since the highway flies over across the Beijing Zoo.







They did all that just for the zoo?
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Old February 23rd, 2011, 12:08 AM   #1673
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ft-ground.html



Shoddy construction there. Hopefully does not have bad implications for the rest of the highway network or even the HSR lines.
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Old February 23rd, 2011, 12:37 AM   #1674
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Why transport coal by truck anyway? That's why you have rail freight, large bulk quantities.
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Old February 23rd, 2011, 12:40 AM   #1675
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strandeed View Post
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ft-ground.html



Shoddy construction there. Hopefully does not have bad implications for the rest of the highway network or even the HSR lines.

don't jump to baseless conclusion so fast. there could possibly be problems caused by design and construction, but the overloading trucks are directly responsible for the collapse.

those trucks should be prevented from running on the roads, seriously, they are literally the 'road killers' as they are destroying the paved roads. when we talk about overloading, you might be thinking of 10 tons over the limit, but in China it is not uncommon that a 30 ton limit modified truck carries 150 tons of goods.
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Last edited by fragel; February 23rd, 2011 at 01:01 AM.
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Old February 23rd, 2011, 12:53 AM   #1676
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Why transport coal by truck anyway? That's why you have rail freight, large bulk quantities.
freight rail in China does not have the capacity for all the commodities. The 600+ km Daqin railway alone transported more than 400 million tons of coal last year, but it is still not enough. Plus, even when coal transported on trains reaches the railway station, a part of it needs to be loaded by trucks anyway. Not every factory can afford a branch line from the railway station.
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Old February 23rd, 2011, 07:16 AM   #1677
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There appears to be no rebar in these sections.....i'm not at all surprised by this...china is taking shortcuts and there starting to catch up...
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Old February 23rd, 2011, 07:43 AM   #1678
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Quote:
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They did all that just for the zoo?
there seems no other options (except relocating the zoo). Beijing zoo is a landmark of Beijing and nobody wants the animals to be disturbed by the new road.
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Old February 23rd, 2011, 07:44 AM   #1679
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Quote:
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there seems no other options (except relocating the zoo). Beijing zoo is a landmark of Beijing and nobody wants the animals to be disturbed by the new road.
and a great place to buy clothes, lol
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Old February 23rd, 2011, 02:14 PM   #1680
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexis View Post
There appears to be no rebar in these sections.....i'm not at all surprised by this...china is taking shortcuts and there starting to catch up...
It's a gap for temperature expansion point, not supposed to have rebar, only vertical support.
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