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Old March 1st, 2011, 01:09 AM   #1701
Fargo Wolf
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hmmwv: Then perhaps you can explain why there is virtually no rebar in there. IF there had been an adequate amount of rebar in the concrete, and, if the quality of concrete was properly mixed (not too "wet" nor too "dry"), this bridge might not have failed. If it did, it probably would not have collapsed, though it would have had to be torn down and rebuilt anyway for obvious reasons.

The quality of bridges, or for that matter, ALL structures in China, are of questionable quality. The reasons why, have been stated already, so there's no need to repeat them here.

wyqtor: Head on crashes happen every day in China, both on and off main highways. Yes, the expressways are needed. The problem is the rampant corruption, cutting costs, even if it means endangering life and shoddy construction practices are the biggest problems. Corrupt corporations will do whatever is required to cut costs (lower/poorer quality materials, reducing the amount of materials used) and use the cheapest (often unskilled) labor to get the job done. What matter to these corporations, is the bottom line. Nothing else matters. Even if found guilty, bribes are often paid to get a court decision in their favor.

When the country TRULY cleans up it's act and starts to clean up it's act, then, and only then, is there hope for massive improvements in construction standards.
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Old March 1st, 2011, 02:50 AM   #1702
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keber View Post
I've studied pictures from this link:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ft-ground.html

then adding my observations and experience as civil engineer.
The part without much rebar is not the load bearing main member. It is part of the parapat wall (low side wall) of the bridge. The photo does not in anyway show the lack of rebar in the main struture.

The main load is carried by the central girder, which is the thickened part along the central axis.
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Old March 1st, 2011, 08:16 AM   #1703
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fargo Wolf View Post
hmmwv: Then perhaps you can explain why there is virtually no rebar in there. IF there had been an adequate amount of rebar in the concrete, and, if the quality of concrete was properly mixed (not too "wet" nor too "dry"), this bridge might not have failed. If it did, it probably would not have collapsed, though it would have had to be torn down and rebuilt anyway for obvious reasons.
If you do not know about civil engineering and the construction industry in China then just shut up instead of embarrassing yourself. Your unsubstantiated claims are laughable. Chinese infrastructure quality are among the best in the world. Corruption in engineering project is minimal.
Projects in China are built to the highest quality possible, regardless of the cost needed. Safety and quality always come first, unlike some other countries. Chinese engineers, workers and the people in general put great attention to details in carrying out their tasks. In China, infrastructure projects are designed and built to high standards the first time, as any extra maintenance will need more resources.

Last edited by maldini; March 1st, 2011 at 12:48 PM.
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Old March 1st, 2011, 09:45 AM   #1704
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You sound like a propagandist. A silly one.
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Old March 1st, 2011, 01:37 PM   #1705
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You sound like a propagandist. A silly one.
LOL I agree
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Old March 1st, 2011, 04:03 PM   #1706
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it's true though, the ratio of infrastructure failure to total infrastructure built is infinitesimal and much lower than many other countries'
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Old March 1st, 2011, 04:29 PM   #1707
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Originally Posted by BarbaricManchurian View Post
it's true though, the ratio of infrastructure failure to total infrastructure built is infinitesimal and much lower than many other countries'
Any data to prove that? Also in comparison with age of the collapsed objects?
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Old March 1st, 2011, 09:36 PM   #1708
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there are wide spread corruptions in china. the construction method in china are different than the us or europe. in china, they do little survey and start doing construction. in order to "get more money", contractors pick the cheapest material they could find. you get what you give for cheap labor that you have people who don't pay attention to detail. the mentality of "it works before, and it still works" are all over, so you have construction crew that use old-school style instead of using precise, accurate technology on building and quality control on infrastructures. history repeats itself if nobody learns the mistake.
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Old March 1st, 2011, 09:47 PM   #1709
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Quote:
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Any data to prove that? Also in comparison with age of the collapsed objects?
you'd hear in the news if anything failed. It's a very rare occurrence. PRIVATE construction sometimes is with shoddy materials, so apartment blocks may collapse or tip over but high-priority PUBLIC infrastructure such as high-speed rail, subway tunnels, and expressways is built with the highest-quality materials.
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Old March 1st, 2011, 11:01 PM   #1710
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Quote:
Originally Posted by henry1394 View Post
there are wide spread corruptions in china. the construction method in china are different than the us or europe.
In China, they stress getting it right the first time. Any further work to rectify mistakes will require extra resources. It is this Chinese attention to details and getting it right the first time mentality that are producing the high quality of Chinese construction.
Therefore, they always use the modern building techniques and high quality materials.

Last edited by maldini; March 1st, 2011 at 11:08 PM.
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Old March 1st, 2011, 11:07 PM   #1711
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Quote:
Originally Posted by henry1394 View Post
there are wide spread corruptions in china. the construction method in china are different than the us or europe. in china, they do little survey and start doing construction. in order to "get more money", contractors pick the cheapest material they could find. you get what you give for cheap labor that you have people who don't pay attention to detail. the mentality of "it works before, and it still works" are all over, so you have construction crew that use old-school style instead of using precise, accurate technology on building and quality control on infrastructures. history repeats itself if nobody learns the mistake.
Speaking from experience?
If that is the case, would China be able to built excellent modern world class infrastructures (thousands of kms modern expressways, high speed railways, airports), facilities (stadiums, theatres, museums etc) and buildings that are the envy of many?

Can we compare what China has produced with what you country has deliverd of the past five years? And if the products are defective, we will hear such news about widespread failure or new repair being done.
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Old March 1st, 2011, 11:13 PM   #1712
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Chinese infrastructure has yet to prove if it's worth its salt. Most of it is brand new. Wait until the maintenance round will massively kick in around 2050.
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Old March 2nd, 2011, 12:02 AM   #1713
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chewys View Post
Speaking from experience?
If that is the case, would China be able to built excellent modern world class infrastructures (thousands of kms modern expressways, high speed railways, airports), facilities (stadiums, theatres, museums etc) and buildings that are the envy of many?

Can we compare what China has produced with what you country has deliverd of the past five years? And if the products are defective, we will hear such news about widespread failure or new repair being done.
I'm from china. the news always focus on the good side; like the length of a highway being done, this railway station was built..etc. they sometimes report thing like the bridge collapse. (10 years ago was rare) you would see a brand new bridge being built just now, in about 6 years it will looks like it's a 30 year old bridge. i don't have engineering background or experience, but i've seen a lot roads and bridges that are brand new will turn into a road with potholes and bridges that you don't even wanna go across.
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Old March 2nd, 2011, 03:11 AM   #1714
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Originally Posted by henry1394 View Post
in about 6 years it will looks like it's a 30 year old bridge. i don't have engineering background or experience, but i've seen a lot roads and bridges that are brand new will turn into a road with potholes and bridges that you don't even wanna go across.
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Old March 2nd, 2011, 04:07 AM   #1715
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oliver999 View Post
完全是胡说八道. 不能以偏概全。
What Oliver said: Is completely nonsense. can not be generalized.

If you say so... I'm not convinced, nor are others. Nuff said.
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Old March 2nd, 2011, 04:54 AM   #1716
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I wouldn't be surprised if quality standards in China are not the same as, say, in Germany or Netherlands when it comes to road building. It's huge money and where there is huge money there is corruption and all kinds of other non-transparent activities. Such things constantly happen in many (but not all) EU countries as well... as they do all around the world. Even if formal standards are high it doesn't mean that in reality someone didn't pocket some cash or didn't "transfer" some materials or didn't intentionally reduce quality in order to get an early maintenance contract. Knowing that China is not yet the most corruption-free place in the world it's not surprising that this would happen. Especially when you deal with billions of USD worth of contracts. Such problems in road-building exist everywhere except countries which have virtually no corruption i.e. Germany, Scandinavians and a few others. Otherwise you have to expect shortcomings here and there. We will probably never find out whether such accidents happened because of this or was it simply an error or something else.
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Old March 2nd, 2011, 01:25 PM   #1717
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Such problems in road-building exist everywhere except countries which have virtually no corruption i.e. Germany, Scandinavians and a few others.
Corruption is in every country. The differences are just the means of how it is being done. The most corrupted enviroment is the army business, second one to it is the infrastructure construction. Third one I would say are IT solutions. Its logical, since in these areas are concentrated the governmental investments. You cannot corrupt in the area of mandatory costs, you can easily corrupt in the area of investments, and these are more or less on the same level around the world.
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Old March 2nd, 2011, 07:32 PM   #1718
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完全是胡说八道. 不能以偏概全。
wow really? i ain't making nonsense. i'm based on my observation in china. it's great that they build a lot of infrastructures, but what people don't see is the quality.
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Old March 2nd, 2011, 09:01 PM   #1719
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this wave of meaningless ranting and bashing gotta be put to an end.

it is really weird that few of the recent commentators cared about the development of Chinese highways and expressways, shared any information or update, one accident and they acted like flies to maneuver. some joker even has no engineering background, has no idea about Chinese roads of any sort (probably never seen or been on one), and most importantly, has no DATA of any kind to support his claims, and yet he talks the loudest.

Let's just wait for the investigation results. Meanwhile, for anyone who has various claims, better show some evidences (photos of poorly maintained roads are fine too) or data.
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Old March 3rd, 2011, 02:21 AM   #1720
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Quote:
Originally Posted by henry1394 View Post
I'm from china. the news always focus on the good side; like the length of a highway being done, this railway station was built..etc. they sometimes report thing like the bridge collapse. (10 years ago was rare) you would see a brand new bridge being built just now, in about 6 years it will looks like it's a 30 year old bridge. i don't have engineering background or experience, but i've seen a lot roads and bridges that are brand new will turn into a road with potholes and bridges that you don't even wanna go across.
Like you said you are not engineer. But having potholes on the pavement is normal, after just a couple of years. The road surface is normally repaved every couple of years. In may countries, potholes can appear right after a snow storm or heavy rain. Even overloaded heavy vehicles can do damage to the road surface.

Concrete pavement reinforce with iron bars are usually more durable than those paved with bitumen. What is most common material used for pavement around the world?
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