Lahore

[Metropole]

The class terminology comes from Britain and there the "upper class" is the aristocracy, i.e. the people with titles like earl, baron etc. Everyone else, including billionaires like Richard Branson, will be classified as middle class.

The same is true in Pakistan. There is no "upper class," just upper-middle class. People who live in DHA, Clifton etc. are upper-middle class. Our old upper class was killed off by the British a long time ago.

The middle and upper-middle classes exist in a lot of cities and towns in Pakistan beyond the big-three.

There's a lot of disparity in wealth and it is likely that the top 10% of that 30 million may own the bulk of that wealth, but on average it is possible that they have a PPP income of $10,000.

[mintgum84]

Economic data is typically expressed as PPP terms as nominal terms means nothing in so far as comparative living stands go.

The bottom line is this:

We have a tiny elite (1-2%), a middle class of perhaps 20% and the remaining 3/4 of the people struggle. All developing countries are like this.

[A-zee]

Originally Posted by siamu maharaj

You're a joke. Buy a calculator for starts...

I don't give a damn who came up with the figures.

Here's a little class 1 math for you.

$10,000 * 30 million = $300 billion..., which is greater than the total GDP of Pakistan.


And let's not even talk about that

$10,000 = about Rs. 70,000/month. Now take a family of 4, which means, on average, a family makes almost 3 lakh a month. OKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK....

Totally and whole-heartedly agree with you and Not even engaging in a discussion with a guy who lacks basic logic, simple arithmetic skills and respect for others (thats the tower guy).

I also agree that PPP is a load of bull crap where we compare a damned 'basket of goods'.

In support of my estimates, I check a very interesting indicator from Pakistan telecom authority (PTA)

As of March 2011, There are some 1.3 Million Broad band subscribers in Pakistan.

(http://www.pta.gov.pk/index.php?opti...ort&Itemid=599)


Thats your upper class for you sir! And thats about it.

Lets suppose there are 5 people in each household. That makes it 6.5 Million people out of an estimated population of 180 million that have access to Broadband internet.
That is roughly 3.5% of Pakistan's population who have broadband!
These are very rough estimates but even if they are spectacularly wrong, Pakistani upper/upper middle class is no more than say 5%

We havent even started talking about middle class yet. They can't effing afford electricity, forget about broadband!

So tower guy take your middle class numbers roll them up and then you know where to stick it!

[A-zee]

siamu maharaj, have a look at the indicator I like and tell me whats your opinion on that. You are the only one that makes sense these days on this forum.

[Metropole]

The $10,000 PPP income figure is for 30 million people, which is 16.66% of the population. According to the original report over half of that 30 million are upper/upper-middle class. That makes them over 8% of the population.

PPP makes sense. If you have to pay $250,000 in the US for an apartment and in Pakistan it costs Rs. 25 lakh ($28,000) then you have to take that into account otherwise you won't get a fair estimate of people's standard of living.

[brightside.]

Originally Posted by A-zee

Totally and whole-heartedly agree with you and Not even engaging in a discussion with a guy who lacks basic logic, simple arithmetic skills and respect for others (thats the tower guy).

I also agree that PPP is a load of bull crap where we compare a damned 'basket of goods'.

In support of my estimates, I check a very interesting indicator from Pakistan telecom authority (PTA)

As of March 2011, There are some 1.3 Million Broad band subscribers in Pakistan.

(http://www.pta.gov.pk/index.php?opti...ort&Itemid=599)


Thats your upper class for you sir! And thats about it.

Lets suppose there are 5 people in each household. That makes it 6.5 Million people out of an estimated population of 180 million that have access to Broadband internet.
That is roughly 3.5% of Pakistan's population who have broadband!
These are very rough estimates but even if they are spectacularly wrong, Pakistani upper/upper middle class is no more than say 5%

We havent even started talking about middle class yet. They can't effing afford electricity, forget about broadband!

So tower guy take your middle class numbers roll them up and then you know where to stick it!

Pakistan had 20.35 million internet users in 2009, according to the World Bank. Go on google and type 'internet penetration pakistan'.

http://www.google.com.pk/publicdata/...ry&hl=en&dl=en

Pakistan has the highest internet penetration in South Asia. Also, vast majority of internet users here are middle class. You are severely underestimating the middle class. Do you actually live in Pakistan? Because if you did, you would not be saying that only the 'elite' are online. In fact, the elite hardly have time for it! Young people, whether they be in any of the posh areas of the 3 big towns in pak, or in some small town, are online in Pakistan. Their families financial status matters little, as you can get internet on your phone for a very cheap price, and broadband is getting cheaper and cheaper. PTCL offers 1Mbps internet for as low as 800 Rs./ month.

Not sure how PTA defines broadband. It must be 1Mbps minimum, otherwise where are the rest of the 19 odd million internet users in their report?

[brightside.]

Dialup internet is FREE in Pakistan. Yes, I know there is little use for that in these times, but at least our poor people can get online and do basic things for free.

[brightside.]

Originally Posted by Metropole

PPP makes sense. If you have to pay $250,000 in the US for an apartment and in Pakistan it costs Rs. 25 lakh ($28,000) then you have to take that into account otherwise you won't get a fair estimate of people's standard of living.

Exactly. Basic common sense.

[shakeelahmadch]

Originally Posted by brightside.

Dialup internet is FREE in Pakistan. Yes, I know there is little use for that in these times, but at least our poor people can get online and do basic things for free.

Who said its free ? Read the fine prints

[A-zee]

Originally Posted by brightside.

Pakistan had 20.35 million internet users in 2009, according to the World Bank. Go on google and type 'internet penetration pakistan'.

http://www.google.com.pk/publicdata/...ry&hl=en&dl=en

Pakistan has the highest internet penetration in South Asia. Also, vast majority of internet users here are middle class. You are severely underestimating the middle class. Do you actually live in Pakistan? Because if you did, you would not be saying that only the 'elite' are online. In fact, the elite hardly have time for it! Young people, whether they be in any of the posh areas of the 3 big towns in pak, or in some small town, are online in Pakistan. Their families financial status matters little, as you can get internet on your phone for a very cheap price, and broadband is getting cheaper and cheaper. PTCL offers 1Mbps internet for as low as 800 Rs./ month.

Not sure how PTA defines broadband. It must be 1Mbps minimum, otherwise where are the rest of the 19 odd million internet users in their report?

Is it really difficult to understand for you that only 1.3 million households/businesses in Pakistan can afford 800 Rs/month or more?
Thats 0.72 % of Pakistani Population. Do you want more simplification? please dont tell me what you see! Come up with figures. PTA itself is the authority to turn to for pakistan telecom figures. Not world bank in this case.

[Strong Hearted]

If someone thinks that in Pak nowadays only Elite class can afford broadband internet, then he is a big joke and needs help

Yesterday I was in my Grand parents village (Near Nandipur, Gujranwala) and I was not amazed to see that 3 out of every 10 houses had PTCL broadband internet and atleast 5 out of every 10 houses had slow speed internet (not dialup but 256 kbps) that comes with VPTCL, so don't just blindly go for the reports until and unless you yourself experience to see something.

I guess someone here once said that in recent years(brightside you?), there has been an increase in the middle class population of Pakistan. And this is BIG BIG reality and you can only believe this if you are living in Pakistan & you have a habit of visiting Smaller cities and towns (and even villages) .

[Strong Hearted]

Originally Posted by shakeelahmadch

Who said its free ? Read the fine prints

PTCL's dialup is now only few Rs , I guess 3 or 5 Rs / hour . So its close to free And you don't need to buy any scratch cards for that, you only need to enter PTCL as username and password and dial number is 13177777 it will be charged as per hour in your monthly bill.

[Strong Hearted]

Originally Posted by brightside.

Pakistan had 20.35 million internet users in 2009, according to the World Bank. Go on google and type 'internet penetration pakistan'.

+1

PAKISTAN

PK - 187,342,721 population (2011) - Area: 880,254 sq km

Capital City: Islamabad - population 1,740,000 (2011)

20,431,000 Internet users as of Mar/11, 10.9% penetration, per CIA.

4,795,200 Facebook users on June 30/11, 2.6% penetration

Compare our penetration rate with other Asian countries http://www.internetworldstats.com/asia.htm , its much better. Please go through this article :

How Many Broadband Users Are There In Pakistan?
By Babar Bhatti | July 7, 2009
PTA is trying to figure out the number of broadband users – not connections - in Pakistan. According to PTA published numbers at the end of 2008 there were 267,180 broadband subscribers (see chart at the end) in Pakistan. So there’s a new study which has been commissioned by PTA which aims to find out the number of users who benefit from one connection. After a few months we expect to get the answer to the all important question: how many broadband users are there in Pakistan? My guess is that the multiplier is between 5-10 on average (higher for workplace and lower for households and youth) so as an estimate could be over 2 million broadband users in Pakistan.
You can see the details of the RFP issued by PTA in this pdf document. Excerpt below.
Generally a broadband connection is often used by up to 20 users per connection; therefore, these broadband connection figures have only limited relevance. PTA has decided to carry out a specific survey to estimate exact figures of broadband end-users in Pakistan.

The aim of engaging the services of a consultancy firm is to come up with a current multiplier factor that can be used and applied to the number of connections in Pakistan to derive an exact number of people who have access to broadband internet and are regular users of this service.

The required “multiplying-factors” would be desirable for:

-Fixed-line broadband services such as ADSL, HFC (Cable-Net), FTTx etc
-Wireless broadband service-users such as WiMAX, EVDO, Satellite etc.

Primary source of collecting information would be via detail survey forms, these forms could be distributed and filled-in by the consultant by means of Internet, telephone or face-to-face interaction with survey respondent.

The document goes on to explain the survey content and the requirements for data sampling. PTA is interested in finding out about the type of connection, network info and the timing and duration of usage. Of course the first thing needed there is a clear definition of what is broadband (256Kbps is considered broadband – source).
The charts below are taken from the PTA report for end of 2008. The numbers for EVDO are based on March 2009 data.



Source

And lets not forget that cable internet is being used at large scale in residential colonies since its fast and cheap, and these stats and figures are never reflected in PTA reports

[A-TOWN BOY]

boy, i like these photos on this page

[siamu maharaj]

Originally Posted by A-zee

siamu maharaj, have a look at the indicator I like and tell me whats your opinion on that. You are the only one that makes sense these days on this forum.

It's getting way too off-topic and hence I'll refrain from posting any further on this topic.

[oogabooga]

Originally Posted by A-zee

siamu maharaj, have a look at the indicator I like and tell me whats your opinion on that. You are the only one that makes sense these days on this forum.

Wow! Never thought I'd hear those were being uttered around these parts..........ever!


Mera bachcha bara ho gaya!


*hugs Umais*

[Cricket_Fan]

Originally Posted by A-zee

Is it really difficult to understand for you that only 1.3 million households/businesses in Pakistan can afford 800 Rs/month or more?
Thats 0.072 % of Pakistani Population. Do you want more simplification? please dont tell me what you see! Come up with figures. PTA itself is the authority to turn to for pakistan telecom figures. Not world bank in this case.

To start off, where are you getting the statistic that 1.3 million households or business can afford 800 Rs/month or more? Secondly, how does 1.3 households or business account for 0.072% of the population? Does every household or business only have one person in them?

[A-zee]

Originally Posted by Cricket_Fan

To start off, where are you getting the statistic that 1.3 million households or business can afford 800 Rs/month or more? Secondly, how does 1.3 households or business account for 0.072% of the population? Does every household or business only have one person in them?

Read post number 2043

[Cricket_Fan]

Originally Posted by A-zee

Read post number 2043

Ok. So you're going by the assumption that typical household has 5 people. But in Pakistan, 4 or 5 kids is typical, whereas 1 or 2 isn't so. And on top of that, you often have in-laws, grand parents, siblings of the head of the household, etc living in the same house. So the number would be to the order of around 6-10 I'd say.

[Strong Hearted]

Originally Posted by Cricket_Fan

Ok. So you're going by the assumption that typical household has 5 people. But in Pakistan, 4 or 5 kids is typical, whereas 1 or 2 isn't so. And on top of that, you often have in-laws, grand parents, siblings of the head of the household, etc living in the same house. So the number would be to the order of around 6-10 I'd say.

From the article that I posted in post #2053:

Generally a broadband connection is often used by up to 20 users per connection; therefore, these broadband connection figures have only limited relevance. PTA has decided to carry out a specific survey to estimate exact figures of broadband end-users in Pakistan.