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Old January 4th, 2006, 11:32 AM   #81
bushman61988
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Exposed Concrete

Is it just me, or does anyone else find the new Exposed-Concrete look one of the most hideous types of architectural design? Actually, I'm not even sure if that's what it's technically called, but the Ugliest buildings in downtown are those grey masses such as Allegro (which in my opinion, is the most unsightly building in downtown), and Farenheit. When I figure out how, I'll post pictures of these monsters.
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Old January 4th, 2006, 10:47 PM   #82
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Are you absolutely sure? I mean I would be happiest person in the world if you are correct, but Im still very skeptical. I actually understand what your saying, its that short useless runway that flanks off the main one right? If this is true, which I pray it is, then Im going to be crying for joy.

Can you give me us any more info on this, like papers or documents? Just to see if your right on, I've just seen this happen many times before, people claiming downtown will be getting a 500+ building. Thank you.
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Old January 4th, 2006, 11:28 PM   #83
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the idea of having a raised height limit of 700-800 feet or whatever it is going to be, sounds heavenly to me. I would shiat a brick if your claim is true. they could then take their sweet time with the airport, and i wouldnt care one bit. i hope you are on point with that claim.
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Old January 5th, 2006, 01:37 AM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bushman61988
Is it just me, or does anyone else find the new Exposed-Concrete look one of the most hideous types of architectural design? Actually, I'm not even sure if that's what it's technically called, but the Ugliest buildings in downtown are those grey masses such as Allegro (which in my opinion, is the most unsightly building in downtown), and Farenheit. When I figure out how, I'll post pictures of these monsters.
Completely agree here! Bare concrete is just plain brutal.
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Old January 5th, 2006, 05:20 AM   #85
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add petco park in parts to that list. the interior bowl is blighted with freaking concrete. it is horrible.
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Old January 5th, 2006, 06:18 AM   #86
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"Are you absolutely sure? I mean I would be happiest person in the world if you are correct, but Im still very skeptical. I actually understand what your saying, its that short useless runway that flanks off the main one right? If this is true, which I pray it is, then Im going to be crying for joy.

Can you give me us any more info on this, like papers or documents? Just to see if your right on, I've just seen this happen many times before, people claiming downtown will be getting a 500+ building. Thank you."

I'm absolutely sure, but ACCORDING to the Downtown Community Plan Update. I understand ur skeptism though, cuz even I have a little bit of it, but it is that runway your thinking of that flanks the main one that limits the height limit downtown and hasn't been used that much. Well, for proof http://www.ccdc.com/planupdate/pdf/5-urbandesign.pdf and the plan update specifically states: "while the Community Plan does not place limitations on maximum attainable heights in downtown, by creating two zones of very high intensity (which are by the way, the Core and a part of East Village) the plan will establish a more defined skyline". For even more information, go to http://www.ccdc.com/planupdate/index.html . Some people have said that there are high limits in the ENTIRE downtown area that limit it to 500 feet, but I seriously doubt this, because like someone else said, if a plane happens to be flying over this area, I REALLY doubt they're aiming for that runway. I found out that information from some link from that website I mentioned abover, but I forgot where exactly. But, I NEVER said that downtown will be getting a 500+ tower because this is a Zoning ordinance and community plan, not any particular building. If the market is there, San Diego will get a 500+ tower, but I doubt it will be office.

"the idea of having a raised height limit of 700-800 feet or whatever it is going to be, sounds heavenly to me. I would shiat a brick if your claim is true. they could then take their sweet time with the airport, and i wouldnt care one bit. i hope you are on point with that claim."

Again, the Community Plan Update places NO limit on height, so the building can go up to 1,000 feet and more BUT it has to conform with the Floor Area Ratio (FAR).......CAN SOMEONE PLEASE DESCRIBE THIS TO ME?! IT MAKES NO SENSE TO ME! I GO TO WEBSITES TO TRY TO GET IT EXPLAINED AND IT STILL MAKES NO SENSE!!!
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Old January 5th, 2006, 06:22 AM   #87
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and can someone also explain to me how to get pictures on this website?
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Old January 5th, 2006, 07:19 AM   #88
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Do you have photobucket or any other image storage account that can transfer photos from your desktop to the internet? Thats the first step. Then (if you have the first step) you just put the images URL in the image quoters, which you can get in the "Go Advanced" button down there.

As for my little quote about the 500+ building, I should have said "possibility of a 500ft+ buidling." Again, I have heard from other people (a lot of other people) that regardless of the community plan, downtown is under the FAA's cap. Now I don't know if those people are experts but....you never know...

Im going to say that no one is right at this point, because A) I don't want to give my hopes up & B) I really want to believe this.
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Old January 5th, 2006, 07:32 AM   #89
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Also bushman61988 theres a bigger more developed SD forum in the North American Thread, under United States, then Westcoast Forums. You can't miss it
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Old January 5th, 2006, 08:57 AM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bushman61988
"Are you absolutely sure? I mean I would be happiest person in the world if you are correct, but Im still very skeptical. I actually understand what your saying, its that short useless runway that flanks off the main one right? If this is true, which I pray it is, then Im going to be crying for joy.

Can you give me us any more info on this, like papers or documents? Just to see if your right on, I've just seen this happen many times before, people claiming downtown will be getting a 500+ building. Thank you."

I'm absolutely sure, but ACCORDING to the Downtown Community Plan Update. I understand ur skeptism though, cuz even I have a little bit of it, but it is that runway your thinking of that flanks the main one that limits the height limit downtown and hasn't been used that much. Well, for proof http://www.ccdc.com/planupdate/pdf/5-urbandesign.pdf and the plan update specifically states: "while the Community Plan does not place limitations on maximum attainable heights in downtown, by creating two zones of very high intensity (which are by the way, the Core and a part of East Village) the plan will establish a more defined skyline". For even more information, go to http://www.ccdc.com/planupdate/index.html . Some people have said that there are high limits in the ENTIRE downtown area that limit it to 500 feet, but I seriously doubt this, because like someone else said, if a plane happens to be flying over this area, I REALLY doubt they're aiming for that runway. I found out that information from some link from that website I mentioned abover, but I forgot where exactly. But, I NEVER said that downtown will be getting a 500+ tower because this is a Zoning ordinance and community plan, not any particular building. If the market is there, San Diego will get a 500+ tower, but I doubt it will be office.

"the idea of having a raised height limit of 700-800 feet or whatever it is going to be, sounds heavenly to me. I would shiat a brick if your claim is true. they could then take their sweet time with the airport, and i wouldnt care one bit. i hope you are on point with that claim."

Again, the Community Plan Update places NO limit on height, so the building can go up to 1,000 feet and more BUT it has to conform with the Floor Area Ratio (FAR).......CAN SOMEONE PLEASE DESCRIBE THIS TO ME?! IT MAKES NO SENSE TO ME! I GO TO WEBSITES TO TRY TO GET IT EXPLAINED AND IT STILL MAKES NO SENSE!!!
FAR(Floor Area Ratio) made easy

The maximum size (or bulk) of a building on a lot is determined by the floor area ratio (FAR) assigned in the Zoning Resolution to each zoning district. It is the principal bulk regulation controlling the physical volume of buildings. The floor area ratio expresses the relationship between the amount of usable floor area permitted in a building and the area of the lot on which the building stands.

A building can contain floor area equal to the lot area multiplied by the floor area ratio (FAR) of the district in which the lot is located. For example, a building to be constructed on a 10,000 square foot lot in a zoning district with a FAR of 10.0 could contain 100,000 square feet (10 x 10,000 s.f.) of floor area. Similarly, a building on a 6,000 square foot lot in a zoning district with a FAR of 6.0 could contain 36,000 square feet of floor area. The lowest FAR in any district is 0.5; the highest basic FAR is 15 in the highest density office districts. In certain districts, the basic floor area ratio permitted on a lot can be increased if certain public amenities are provided.


It really doesn't attach any height limitation, just usable floor space. So SD could have some rather tall buildings that will be thinner looking, or shorter more bulky buildings. I think SD's new plan has a max 10 FAR in some spots. But again, you could see buildings that take up a fourth of a block hitting 600 in lower far regions, and those in the core hitting only 500 but taking up an entire block.
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Old January 5th, 2006, 11:20 AM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bushman61988
Is it just me, or does anyone else find the new Exposed-Concrete look one of the most hideous types of architectural design? Actually, I'm not even sure if that's what it's technically called, but the Ugliest buildings in downtown are those grey masses such as Allegro (which in my opinion, is the most unsightly building in downtown), and Farenheit. When I figure out how, I'll post pictures of these monsters.
At least paint the freaking concrete.
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Old January 5th, 2006, 08:11 PM   #92
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I just posted this over on the local forum, so maybe this thread gets more traffic. Don't know.

I have definately seen a CCDC diagram showing the new height limits (based on sun access) that are about to go into effect, and it clearly says at the bottom that there is an FAA overlay with a maximum height limit of 500 feet over all of the CCDC jurisdiction. If I can find it, I'll scan it and post it here.

There's been a lot of complaining about FAR and what FAR means exactly. The primary reason FAR's are used is to control bulk in large buildings. There are many reasons to do this - I'll go over a few but I'm sure that I'll miss something. Firstly, cities want to maintain decent light and air access in the commercial cores to reduce the "canyoning" effect a la Wall Street (which gave birth to the first zoning ordinances). Secondly, it is a recent phenomenon to try to encourage certain types of development (residential, mixed-use, etc.) and zoning is the best tool that cities have. Different types of projects warrant different FAR's and that is reflected in the new SD plan. Thirdly, cities must control the rate at which new development occurs in order to keep up with the demand on the infrastructure, such as transportation and various utilities. Some cities have gone so far as to limit the amount of total construction possible in one year - Seattle and San Francisco are two good recent examples with mixed success. BTW - it will never be possible to have a build out as shown in the CCDC diagrams without a MASSIVE investment in mass transit downtown.

Just my two cents - I hope this has cleared up the issue for now.

Also, under certain conditions it is possible to transfer development rights (TDR). The first proposed TDR under the new plan is the 15th & Island project where the developer has agreed to set aside the western half of the block for a public park in exchange for its development rights or "air space" (there is a seismic fault running through the western half of the site anyway). So even though the private development is limited to the eastern half of the block, they are entitled to the maximum buildable envelope for the full block, effectively doubling the FAR.

Quote:
Every few months the height limit issue seems to flare up, and I'm pretty sure I've posted this before so I'm paraphrasing:

In downtown San Diego there are two sources of height limits, and the lower of the two will govern in any case. There is an FAA overlay over most of downtown due to its proximity to Lindbergh. This overlay ranges from 60 feet in the northern end of Little Italy and steps up to 500 feet (above mean sea level) at around Ash St, depending on how far east-west you are. But the rest of downtown still has a height limit of 500 feet - as I understand it, emergency procedures would call for a plane approaching Lindbergh to divert to the south over downtown (instead of to the north which makes sense with Banker's Hill).

The second source of height limits is the community plan - I'm not positive about this, but the 1992 plan may not have any height limits at all. The new plan, however, places height limits all over downtown based on sun access to community parks. Some of these parks do not exist yet but the height limits will go into effect immediately. This has created a bit of a "gold rush" in the East Village with some of the earliest projects in the current construction cycle being completed before the plan takes effect. Under the new plan, there are still many blocks where 500+ is allowable, but the matrix of sun angles as shown in the plan creates a very few blocks that will allow a 750 foot tall building - this will likely be the absolute maximum downtown until 2025 when the community plan is expected to be updated. But again, as long as Lindbergh is operational (2015 at the very earliest), the 500 foot limit will govern.

FAR has the potential to create an artificial height limit, but it will still be possible to go above 500 feet with the new plan. After a lot of tweeking the FAR's have been synched to the new height limits - it's pointless to have an FAR of 20 zoned for a block immediately south of a park. At the end, I believe the maximum is 20 with all of the bonuses included. I don't have a copy of the plan in front of me now, but I may dig one out to confirm the final FAR's.

The standard block size downtown is about 40,000 sq ft so an FAR of 20 will allow a full-block project to have a maximum envelope of 800,000 sq ft. A theoretical project could then be built: assuming an 80,000 sq ft podium and a thin tower of about 10,000 sq ft per floor you get 2 floors of podium plus 72 floors in the tower (right about 750 feet total). More likely would be a mixed-use tower with a full block podium, 20 or so floors of office, and the rest hotel/condo. Assuming 20,000 sq ft plates in the office portion and 10,000 sq ft above you would get 54 floors, or about 650 feet total. It will be interesting to see if spires are allowed to go above 750, but this is all at least 15-20 years away. Until then, we're going to have a blocky skyline - be sure to vote in November on the airport measure.
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Last edited by sbaumberger; January 6th, 2006 at 01:34 AM.
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Old January 6th, 2006, 08:25 AM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bushman61988
Is it just me, or does anyone else find the new Exposed-Concrete look one of the most hideous types of architectural design? Actually, I'm not even sure if that's what it's technically called, but the Ugliest buildings in downtown are those grey masses such as Allegro (which in my opinion, is the most unsightly building in downtown), and Farenheit. When I figure out how, I'll post pictures of these monsters.
I agree that Allegro is the ugliest highrise building downtown. The side facing away from the bay looks like a commie block tower.
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Old January 7th, 2006, 06:07 AM   #94
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Sapphire Tower?

Toronto's got one of its own... what's this all about?
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Old January 7th, 2006, 07:14 AM   #95
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Yeah, but I'm sure the one in Toronto is taller.
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Old January 7th, 2006, 07:16 AM   #96
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Check out the marketing campaign for the 43-story Library Tower......





.....and if you still care, here's a rendering from their recently updated website www.librarytowersd.net

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Old January 7th, 2006, 07:20 AM   #97
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Those ads always make me laugh.
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Old January 25th, 2006, 03:24 AM   #98
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Two new renderings to add. MetroLive looks especially good. -



MONDRIAN

38-Story, 1.2 Million Square Foot Development Will be One of the Cityís Largest Residential Buildings

KMA Architecture & Engineering (KMA) has been retained by Gray Development to provide design and engineering services for a $180 million, mixed-use residential complex located at Eighth Avenue and B Street in downtown San Diego. Construction of the project, one of the largest residential developments in San Diego, is slated to begin in third quarter 2006.

Plans for the 1.2 million square-foot development include town homes and flats above street-level retail space on B Street and Ninth Avenue. In addition, the project answers the growing demand for downtown residential space with a 38-story tower featuring between 700-750 rental units and 100-150 luxury condominiums. The complex also features six levels of underground parking and a central entry court off on Ninth Avenue. The projectís contemporary design will embrace the urban style of the surrounding neighborhood.

ìWe are pleased to help bring another exciting, high-quality, residential development to downtown San Diego,î said Don Blair, president of KMA. ìThis project marks an important addition to downtownís residential and retail offerings, and we are proud to have been selected to partner with Gray Development.î

The KMA project team consists of Don Blair, Robb Walker, Kevin Burke, Nathan Ouren, Joyce Peabody, Ron Bastin and James Belmont. KMA is also providing electrical and mechanical engineering services. Glotman Simpson is the structural engineer and the civil engineer is PDC, Inc.

The project joins KMAís growing mixed-use residential portfolio in San Diego, including Nexus in San Diegoís East Village, CityMark development in Little Italy, Parkloft and Park Terrace in the East Village, DECA and 301 University in Uptown.

Contact:
Stephanie Baker - [email protected]



MetroLive

This 33-story, 200,000 square foot building will be located in the Columbia District of downtown San Diego at the intersection of Ash and Columbia Streets. This mixed-use development will consist of 3 stories of retail, underground and above-ground parking, and 82 exclusive residential condominium units.Construction is expected to commence in late 2007.
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Old January 26th, 2006, 03:50 AM   #99
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Metrolive is impressive compared to some of the other projects floating around...
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Old January 27th, 2006, 04:02 AM   #100
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Looks like San Diego is trying to become a west coast Miami?
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