PRESTON | Full Summary of Projects

[CaptainJason]

I will check that out next time I am in Preston.

Spotted this on the LEP website. http://www.lep.co.uk/community/local...site_1_3828472

What are everyones thoughts? I think this is an example of people doing the whole "quick its old, save it." There is nothing about this building that would warrant its saving in my opinion. Its not that interesting inside and the outside isn't that unique. Feel free to correct me though!

Fingers crossed the new houses arnt cul-de-sacs or something equally nasty!

City Mission? Any action their yet?

[Irish Blood English Heart]

How many bays is Preston bus station again cause I was in Bradford's the other day and it felt a little larger (it had 26).

[CaptainJason]

Preston has 80. Yes 80!

[Irish Blood English Heart]

Wow.... Bradford's felt as large as Preston's when I was inside it, but then it's been a few years since I was there so perhaps my mind is playing tricks on me!

[Irish Blood English Heart]

I saw an article earlier on the BBC saying the bus station has been added to a list of great World buildings under thread.

Any thoughts?

[AndyLS6]

Originally Posted by Irish Blood English Heart

I saw an article earlier on the BBC saying the bus station has been added to a list of great World buildings under thread.

Any thoughts?

Link here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-15211575

Quote of the day: "It's a good place to get your bus"!

There is also a similar video on the BBC website along similar lines:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...shire-15192362

and an interview from the Today program!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today...00/9608792.stm

There's also an article in The Guardian - it seems Preston's brutalist masterpiece is getting it's fair share of attention! http://www.guardian.co.uk/artanddesi...ed?INTCMP=SRCH

Given the Tithebarn is unlikely to go ahead this century, they should restict bus usage to the old Tradex side and pedestrianise the side on St. John's Centre. This could be done very cheaply, would alleviate many of the current problems around access and could be improved upon in the future with shops/offices on the Preston Bus side of the building and a bit of landscaping.

After saying all of that, it does get a bit boring that this thing keeps getting dragged up! Getting back to things that might actually happen - it will be a shame to see the Park School knocked down but it doesn't appear to be that special a building and it has got to be better to be providing 30 homes that will provide a bit of life and possibly improve what could be nice area than to let the existing building sit there empty and derelict.

[AndyLS6]

There are also articles on the Sky website and in the Daily Mail if anyone's interested.

[PrestonBusStation]

Originally Posted by AndyLS6

Given the Tithebarn is unlikely to go ahead this century, they should restict bus usage to the old Tradex side and pedestrianise the side on St. John's Centre. This could be done very cheaply, would alleviate many of the current problems around access and could be improved upon in the future with shops/offices on the Preston Bus side of the building and a bit of landscaping.

Hi Andy,

Have you seen the mock ups produced by Ben Casey showing such a solution? It's so true that this would alleviate all access problems for pedestrians, you have to wonder why Preston City Council didn't do this unless they are trying to sabotage the building's future? After all, even with only one side operational there would still be 40 bays, bigger than the proposed and now abandoned replacement that was due to be built parallel to the present bus station's location.

Did you know that Preston Bus Station is (currently) the most popular building that its original architects, Building Design Partnership, ever built? Furthermore that company itself was founded in Preston by Professor Sir George Grenfell-Baines OBE (1908 - 2003) who was actually born in Preston. The building truly has local roots.

It's chilling that Preston City Council's leader would go to the national press to slate a building that has brought more local, national and international attention to the city over the last week than anything else. It may be his personal bias that he does not like the building but he should be able to see through that or lament on the old saying that "when life gives you lemons, make lemonade".

Preston City Council and Building Design Partnership have both been united in their total silence (barring the council leader's comments on Radio) about the World Monument Fund's announcement about the bus station. I do wish that Urban Splash would make a comment, I think they're a company that have the imagination and talent to pull off the artists' impression from the link above.

On a side note - I think it's worth taking a look at Liverpool One's [another creation of BDP and no doubt a template for what Preston's Tithebarn scheme would look like] ranking in that popularity contest. Whilst the poll is not scientific, you'll see that Liverpool One certainly doesn't generate the same amount of passion or conversation as Preston Bus Station.

[CaptainJason]

Liverpool One is amazing! It has done more to change peoples perception of Liverpool than the Bus Station could ever do for Preston. Liverpool One has given the (whole) city a massive injection of pride and life that it desperately needed. The fear of empty units across the city centre hasn't happened either, apart from in the Met Quarter. If Tithebarn could achieve similar then I could only see how that would be a win win for Preston.

While I am sure that Preston Bus Station could be intergrated into Tithebarn it is not as simple as that image suggests, Shops in the front, Bus Station in the back. For instance how do the shops get their deliveries? For example if you look at Liverpool one most of the blocks have some form of service yard for deliveries. Secondly you have the issue of accessible access to each of the parking decks which it doesn't currently have. Altering the cores or infact creating new ones would be very expensive. Plus it doesn't address the fact that the Bus Station cuts off the area to the east of it from the city centre. How would you develop the B&M/Church areas?

All that a side I would love to see what a developer like Urban Splash would do with it!

[Accura4Matalan]

I think all of us pro-Tithebarn people on this forum understand the perspective of those who are trying to save the bus station... guilty as charged, I have a pretty big soft spot for it myself. But as interesting and exciting ideas to save the bus station are, or integrate it into the Tithebarn scheme, deep down we know that none of them are viable, especially not at the massive cost.

[PrestonBusStation]

Originally Posted by Accura4Matalan

I think all of us pro-Tithebarn people on this forum understand the perspective of those who are trying to save the bus station... guilty as charged, I have a pretty big soft spot for it myself. But as interesting and exciting ideas to save the bus station are, or integrate it into the Tithebarn scheme, deep down we know that none of them are viable, especially not at the massive cost.

Originally Posted by Accura4Matalan

I think all of us pro-Tithebarn people on this forum understand the perspective of those who are trying to save the bus station... guilty as charged, I have a pretty big soft spot for it myself. But as interesting and exciting ideas to save the bus station are, or integrate it into the Tithebarn scheme, deep down we know that none of them are viable, especially not at the massive cost.

Just to be clear I am one of those pro-Tithebarn people; Tithebarn excites me greatly. Paying the price by losing a public transport facility and a unique & celebrated piece of architecture from Preston's narrow portfolio does not.

Cost wise it was estimated to cost ~£24m to build a new bus station (plans that are now scrapped since the NWDA was abolished). Projected costs to bring the current bus station up to a modern state were far lower, nearer £4m. Also, Lend Lease have stated they will not fund a replacement bus station and they also expect Preston City Council to demolish the bus station at their own cost.

In his questionable appearance on BBC Radio 4, Preston City Council Leader Peter Rankin said that they would need £3m to "convert" the bus station. £3 million. If they don't have £3m & they're not encouraging the developers to cough up then when will they admit that there is no chance of replacement bus station and also allow us to know the costs they're going to be liable for the demolition?

Restoration is not the answer, I don't think anybody wants a time capsule from 1969 sat in the middle of the Tithebarn scheme; modernisation and integration are the key. Urban Splash seem to manage with this approach.

Ben Casey's impression IS viable and would allow this piece of architecture to remain in the city counteracting the generic appearance of the Tithebarn artist's impressions, ensuring Preston retains a city centre bus station and continuing to act as a hub for regional and national bus services whilst also being economically and environmentally sustainable. We can't knock a quarter of the city down every 40 years.

The topic is also being talked about on the Preston North End Forum.

[Tark]

Originally Posted by PrestonBusStation

Did you know that Preston Bus Station is (currently) the most popular building that its original architects, Building Design Partnership, ever built? Furthermore that company itself was founded in Preston by Professor Sir George Grenfell-Baines OBE (1908 - 2003) who was actually born in Preston. The building truly has local roots.

BDP are well aware that the poll they set up to celebrate the firm's 75th anniversary (as Grenfell-Baines & Hargreaves, and 50th as BDP) has been spammed by people with interests wider than those of just BDP's architecture. [my source? speaking to person in overseeing the poll for BDP at their anniversary dinner at the RIBA in Portland Place this summer who can check the origin of all voters' ISP addresses]

As a newcommer to this thread, PBS can search through my many posts on this issue over the last, oh, 8 years (?) on this thread for historical context.

The massive economic change since the Tithebarn was first proposed in 1997 and the situation today means I have changed my view from total demolition of the Bus Station too. I'd go for a total replanning of the scheme, with the full building retained, but only accessed for buses from the east side with the west side filled with shops etc, serviced from underground.

This issue of the bus station negating access to the city centre from the east has been mitigated over the last 15 years to a great extent by the ever increasing importance of the University infrastructure to the north west of the city centre. Improving pedestrian experience and linkage between Corporation St / Friargate and Fylde Road is now more imprtant than improving linkage between, say, the Town Hall and Deepdale Road / Ribbleton Lane. The main problem here is that this requires a major replanning of the John Lewis location for which Heads of Terms have been signed - and without John Lewis, there simply is no Tithebarn project. You may wonder why this is, but just trust me on this one - I have enough experience of the realpolitik of the major developers to know this is the case. And so, incidentally, do PCC, which is why they will be very reluctant to have to renegociate the Heads of Terms with John Lewis on a revised location and accessing.

We find ourselves today very much between a rock and a hard place. Riversider might suggest that this is what we get for "putting all our eggs in one basket", and perhaps it is. On the otherhand, the small scale piecemeal redevelopment 'by the people' cannot possibly address the major overarching issues that the heart of Preston needs to confront head on. We need to redraw the big picture, but we now have a very different canvass on which to try and make our marks.

I hope the Guild of 2032 can finally provide Prestonians and our visitors with a centre to be proud of.

[AndyLS6]

The Park Hotel overlooking Avenham park has been put up for sale by the council. (LEP story here)

With it being so close to the train station, this could be a great location for a new, decent quality city centre hotel, especially if the business district by the train station goes ahead.

[JonH]

The desperation is to keep the bus station. Then there is a simple solution. Retain the glass enclosed bit at the bottom of the building (The Bus Station) and demolish everything above (Not the Bus Station).

Then redevelop Tithebarn on top of the bus station.

Hey presto, everything solved because the BUS STATION element is FULLY retained.

(That silly, curved concrete bit on top is only a car park, which as we know is only used by nasty capitalist rich people - so who cares?)

[AndyLS6]

Originally Posted by JonH

The desperation is to keep the bus station. Then there is a simple solution. Retain the glass enclosed bit at the bottom of the building (The Bus Station) and demolish everything above (Not the Bus Station).

Then redevelop Tithebarn on top of the bus station.

Hey presto, everything solved because the BUS STATION element is FULLY retained.

(That silly, curved concrete bit on top is only a car park, which as we know is only used by nasty capitalist rich people - so who cares?)

t'aint silly it's a brutalist masterpiece - ask anyone. Anyone that matters anyway!

[PrestonBusStation]

Originally Posted by JonH

The desperation is to keep the bus station. Then there is a simple solution. Retain the glass enclosed bit at the bottom of the building (The Bus Station) and demolish everything above (Not the Bus Station).

"Preston Bus Station" is the name applied to the building as a whole. This is accepted convention from its designers Building Design Partnership, as referenced multiple times on their site, and also further afield. Semantically you are correct in that the bus station occupies the ground floor with the car park above.

This document shows proposed parking areas in Tithebarn, as well as Tithebarn's general layout, with the indoor market car park being retained whilst two new car parks are added both ~100m away from the current bus station car park.

Further documents relating to the layout and heights of Tithebarn are available here on the council website - whether they are up to date I do not know. The council are making a Tithebarn announcement "hopefully by end of Oct, possibly early Nov".

[Irish Blood English Heart]

I really am beginning to think it should be kept. Make the west side bays into double height glass fronted stores leading onto an internal street with shops opposite too. The Carpark stays as parking for Tithebarn, the Eastbound half gets a refurb and serves as the bus station but linked right into the centre for superb connectivity. The whole thing fully integrated within a new masterplan.

Its so simple it's ridiculous it wasn't thought of before.

[PrestonBusStation]

Originally Posted by Irish Blood English Heart

I really am beginning to think it should be kept. Make the west side bays into double height glass fronted stores leading onto an internal street with shops opposite too. The Carpark stays as parking for Tithebarn, the Eastbound half gets a refurb and serves as the bus station but linked right into the centre for superb connectivity. The whole thing fully integrated within a new masterplan.

Its so simple it's ridiculous it wasn't thought of before.

I imagine that the bottom part of the new Premier Inn isn't too dissimilar to your vision?

[Tark]

Originally Posted by Irish Blood English Heart

I really am beginning to think it should be kept. Make the west side bays into double height glass fronted stores leading onto an internal street with shops opposite too. The Carpark stays as parking for Tithebarn, the Eastbound half gets a refurb and serves as the bus station but linked right into the centre for superb connectivity. The whole thing fully integrated within a new masterplan.

Its so simple it's ridiculous it wasn't thought of before.

Now that the economics have changed so much since the the initial Tithebarn scheme of 1997, I agree in priciple IBEH. There's only been 2 overground car parks ever designed that have set standards: The first in New Haven, Connecticticut, followed by Preston Bus Station which set the 5m bay, 6m one way turning circles, 5m bay format which has not been bettered. Planned in duality, this leads to a 10m 1in8 ramp between ½ levels which works for overground car parking levels - though the floor to ceiling heights cannot be efficiently adapted to any other uses other than parking cars - so not fit for human habitation.

What made Keith Ingham's design so striking was in how he terminated the nose of the parking bays, with sculptural up-curved precast concrete sections, which have been improved by their painting in white in the mid 90's (architects had no experience of how a relatively new material like precast concrete would weather when they designed their buildings in the 1960's.)

Cars, particularly when parked by absent owners, have no place in a city centre and should be underground, where they are safely out of sight and out of mind. The spaces between a city's buildings enhance one's appreciatiation of the buildings themselves, and I know of no case in which a building's setting is improved by having cars parked around it.

Preston Bus Station car park is one of the very few examples of a relatively successful attempt at making architecture out of a use that has no place above ground in any city centre. As I said, in the economic climate of today and with further thought, I have changed my view vis demolishing the PBS.

However, the 3 acres of redundant ground level concrete to the west of the bus station should be underlaid with another couple of thousand underground car parking spaces over several levels - and make provision for a future tram stop or two. That would, I think, be a great enticement to keep John Lewis on board, especially if they were above that underground car park and tram stops.

[JonH]

Originally Posted by AndyLS6

Anyone that matters anyway!

Who are they? Architectural fans, or people who actually use the building? The former certainly seem to get far more concern than the latter (speaking as a former actual user of the bus station).