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Old August 3rd, 2005, 11:00 PM   #201
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[QUOTE=npinguy][QUOTE=Wally]Tell me noob, why should the rest of the GVRD subsidize Vancouver's desire for underground systems only? Why are Vancouverites more hollier than those in New West or Surrey?
Quote:

Bullcrap argument that I have already responded to but you keep repeating it

The same reason that Vancouverites will be paying in part for the Coquitlam LRT extension. We don't need it, we won't use it - it's for people there. But we will be paying for it as well. And I promie you Vancouver will pay a bigger chunk of the Coquitlam LRT than Coquitlam will of the RAV.
He repeats everything, comes up with nothing that's new and just ignores the other side's comments and asks the question again, or he just makes things up about other members with absolutely no proof.

right now, he's probably retreated to a corner, licking his wounds.
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Old August 3rd, 2005, 11:16 PM   #202
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Also found this pic of the North Arm bridge on the Buckland & Taylor website:

http://www.b-t.com/latest.htm

RAV North Arm Crossing, BC, Canada

Buckland & Taylor Ltd., as a sub-consultant to SNC Lavalin, was awarded the contract to provide the design for an extrados bridge for the Richmond-Airport-Vancouver (RAV) Rapid Transit North Arm Crossing. The estimated date of completion is 2008.

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Old August 4th, 2005, 05:06 AM   #203
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I'm still waiting for someone to answer my question. How many NEW REVENUE riders does the TTC expect from the Spadina/YorkU ext?
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Old August 5th, 2005, 03:43 AM   #204
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"How many NEW REVENUE riders does the TTC expect from the Spadina/YorkU ext? "


Probably quite a few.

Half of the people who commute to the university and live in the city, drive there. 50% for inner-city students and faculty is way too high...probably because they dread getting on one of those crammed 645 buses that go there every day. A subway connection with the main subway system will dramatically increase inner-city commuters.

Beyond the university, which is a major subway destination on it's own, is how it will give many 905'ers a convenient transfer point for the TTC subway. It will be a major gateway for commuters from highways 400, 407 and 7, as the new Steeles Station will have a 3000-car parking lot. It will also have a massive bus terminal connecting other regional transit.

Beyond Steeles/905 connections and York U, the rest of the line is not devoid of major destination and transfer points to other TTC routes (Keele-Finch), and it will also attract commuters going downtown, as Steeles, Finch and Sheppard West bus travelers will not have to travel all the way to Yonge to grab a subway.

I think this line serves a number of important prospective transit riders.






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Old August 6th, 2005, 05:25 AM   #205
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I'd like to see the numbers, surely the TTC knows.
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Old August 6th, 2005, 06:02 PM   #206
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Why? What are you going to do with them...more narrow-minded analysis?

Transit lines are not detached, static entities...they are part of a very fluid system that is constantly changing.






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Old August 7th, 2005, 07:56 AM   #207
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Yes, but that doesn't mean they should build it as opposed to the Sheppard ext.
Again, what numbers is the TTC using to justify $250,000,000/km when it is really just point to point travel, ie YorkU express.
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Old August 7th, 2005, 05:35 PM   #208
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"Yes, but that doesn't mean they should build it as opposed to the Sheppard ext. "


And it doesn't mean it shouldn't.








"Again, what numbers is the TTC using to justify $250,000,000/km when it is really just point to point travel"


AGAIN...what makes you able to analyze the info even if you had it? You think the TTC just guesses or is perhaps less able to qualify transit building than you are?

And it isn't just point-to-point travel at all...you haven't been listening (again)...the added passengers via 905'ers and connecting with other TTC routes is very real. So why settle for a cheaper point-to-point line from Downsview to York U, when it can invest to enhance the entire system?

It's the old question...spend more to get more...or spend less to get less.





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Old August 7th, 2005, 06:05 PM   #209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KGB
"How many NEW REVENUE riders does the TTC expect from the Spadina/YorkU ext? "


Probably quite a few.

Half of the people who commute to the university and live in the city, drive there. 50% for inner-city students and faculty is way too high...probably because they dread getting on one of those crammed 645 buses that go there every day. A subway connection with the main subway system will dramatically increase inner-city commuters.

Beyond the university, which is a major subway destination on it's own, is how it will give many 905'ers a convenient transfer point for the TTC subway. It will be a major gateway for commuters from highways 400, 407 and 7, as the new Steeles Station will have a 3000-car parking lot. It will also have a massive bus terminal connecting other regional transit.

Beyond Steeles/905 connections and York U, the rest of the line is not devoid of major destination and transfer points to other TTC routes (Keele-Finch), and it will also attract commuters going downtown, as Steeles, Finch and Sheppard West bus travelers will not have to travel all the way to Yonge to grab a subway.

I think this line serves a number of important prospective transit riders.






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1000
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Old August 8th, 2005, 12:30 AM   #210
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Just got back from my vacation in Maui...

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.x
LOL. Nothing but shit and assumptions. But of course, I do have proof that you are in fact Queetz.

No two people can be exactly alike and say exactly the same thing, word by word....."....if you want a train, have it high up in the sky!".......".....12 year old creme de la creme", etc.
That's your proof? LOL! First and foremost, I am the one that said that the first time in the Vancouver Transport Forum. Second, I haven't seen Queetz say that and if he did in a different forum like Discover Vancouver, then he must have copied that line from me. Third, I did say you are 12 years old and you admitted it, right? You did admit in the High Rise Canada Forum that you live in West Point Grey, land of the creme de la creme, did you not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.x
West Point Grey, Vancouver, BC, Canada.
http://s4.invisionfree.com/Highrise_...p?showtopic=82

Add those two together and therefore you are a 12 year old creme de la creme.


[QUOTE=npinguy][QUOTE=Wally]Tell me noob, why should the rest of the GVRD subsidize Vancouver's desire for underground systems only? Why are Vancouverites more hollier than those in New West or Surrey?
Quote:

Bullcrap argument that I have already responded to but you keep repeating it

The same reason that Vancouverites will be paying in part for the Coquitlam LRT extension. We don't need it, we won't use it - it's for people there. But we will be paying for it as well. And I promie you Vancouver will pay a bigger chunk of the Coquitlam LRT than Coquitlam will of the RAV.

npinguy, I am still waiting for your "evidence" that you are referring to in post #163.

And no. Vancouver won't be paying a larger chunk for the Coquitlam LRT. For one, I doubt it will ever get built. And even if for some miracle it does get built, the Coquitlam LRT is cheaper thus require less revenue to break even and does not penalize GVRD residents to subsidize a private corporation if ridership does not reach 100k a day. Its simple math and given the desire of Coquitlam residents to really have a viable alternative to the automobile and the fact that the technology is cheaper and yet just as effective, then there is no doubt that the Coquitlam LRT, if built, will be more profitable. The Tri Cities are a designated "growth" area as part of the GVRD LRSP and rapid transit to that area is essential to ensure that the region is livable. Since there are no alternatives to the automobile to this fast growing affordable suburb where people need to buy housing but work in other parts of the GVRD, it is essential that they are given a viable alternative to the automobile so they won't be forced to drive to work. People in the Northeast has been begging for rapid transit for decades and yet people in Vancouver and Richmond don't necessarily want it since they are more concerned about loosing lanes and appeasing foreigners (e.g. airport) rather than servicing the residents of the city itself (e.g. not having a lot more stations to service its residents even though it would increase travelling time).

As far as those people who think tunneling/subsidizing all tax dollars just to service Vancouver is justified, let me remind you again that Vancouver refused to develop high development in most of the RAV Line and even parts of the existing Expo Line route (e.g. Broadway and Commercial) and refuses to have a cheaper and yet just as effective elevated Sky-Train at their precious "Heritage Blvd". At least the Tri Cities are doing their part to ensure that there will be ridership along the proposed rapid transit route even before its been built by densifying the corridor with Transit Oriented Development.
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Old August 8th, 2005, 01:13 AM   #211
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i really like the bridge.
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Old August 8th, 2005, 03:38 AM   #212
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Quote:
That's your proof? LOL! First and foremost, I am the one that said that the first time in the Vancouver Transport Forum. Second, I haven't seen Queetz say that and if he did in a different forum like Discover Vancouver, then he must have copied that line from me. Third, I did say you are 12 years old and you admitted it, right? You did admit in the High Rise Canada Forum that you live in West Point Grey, land of the creme de la creme, did you not?
That's your proof? LOL! Just because I live in West Point Grey, therefore I am creme de la creme? Pathetic. What else, all Africans are awesome basketball players? All Chinese are bad drivers?
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Old August 8th, 2005, 04:57 AM   #213
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KGB.........if you don't know the numbers then fine but don't go into some son-and-dance.

Is there anyone ELSE who knows the numbers of new revenue riders that is expected by the SpadinaExt?
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Old August 9th, 2005, 06:40 AM   #214
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why is everyone bitching so much about the rav line being tunneled? can you imagine how ugly it would be to have an elevated line running down cambie? i dont think they would have a chance of densifying the residential areas and it would reduce ridership. anyways the price may be high but this system will last 100 years. it will definatly pay itself off in time.

i think that the areas around stations should be densified. especially the king ed and oakridge sections. if nothing is done then this line will definatly just be a waste of money.

as to the comments on why the rest of the gvrd should pay for vancouver wanting a tunnelled line...doesnt vancouver pay for transportation project else where? i dont see vancouver complaining about the golden ears bridge in langley/maple ridge($600million).
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Old August 10th, 2005, 04:05 AM   #215
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^ I see you live in creme de la creme area as well, assuming you are not an alter ego of the 12 year old creme de la creme troll. As far as asthetics is concerned, if the elevated system saves hundreds of millions of dollars that can be used to expand rapid transit elsewhere in the Lower Mainland and the only one to suffer are creme de la creme NIMBYs who don't want to see a train high above their homes, then all the better!

Golden Ears Bridge pays for itself through tolls paid by users and does not require Vancouver's property and gas tax money. I doubt Vancouver residents would be punished through high taxes and lack of much needed transportation improvements if the bridge does not reach 100k users per day but I am absolutely certain that Maple Ridge and Langley residents will be punished by continuously having high taxes and yet not having better service and transportation improvements for the next 35 years if RAV does not reach 100k a day, which is an absolute certainty.

And btw, what is this I hear that RAV cost $1.9 billion now even before a single hole is dug? WTF! $100 million per km just to appease the creme de la creme who do not want to see a train high above their homes. How criminal!
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Old August 10th, 2005, 04:06 AM   #216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wally
Vancouver won't be paying a larger chunk for the Coquitlam LRT. For one, I doubt it will ever get built.
MY GOD! Somebody should tell those fools at Translink!
http://www.translink.bc.ca/Plans_Pro..._expansion.asp

Because those silly mofos actually think it IS going to get built...

This is just yet another mark against your credibilty. At this point you're in the negative levels.

Quote:
And even if for some miracle it does get built, the Coquitlam LRT is cheaper thus require less revenue to break even and does not penalize GVRD residents to subsidize a private corporation if ridership does not reach 100k a day. Its simple math and given the desire of Coquitlam residents to really have a viable alternative to the automobile and the fact that the technology is cheaper and yet just as effective, then there is no doubt that the Coquitlam LRT, if built, will be more profitable. The Tri Cities are a designated "growth" area as part of the GVRD LRSP and rapid transit to that area is essential to ensure that the region is livable. Since there are no alternatives to the automobile to this fast growing affordable suburb where people need to buy housing but work in other parts of the GVRD, it is essential that they are given a viable alternative to the automobile so they won't be forced to drive to work. People in the Northeast has been begging for rapid transit for decades and yet people in Vancouver and Richmond don't necessarily want it since they are more concerned about loosing lanes and appeasing foreigners (e.g. airport) rather than servicing the residents of the city itself (e.g. not having a lot more stations to service its residents even though it would increase travelling time).
That may be true but it's not the point. The point is all transit lines have far-reaching consequences to the entire lower mainland and that's why all of the cities have some stake in them.

Quote:
As far as those people who think tunneling/subsidizing all tax dollars just to service Vancouver is justified, let me remind you again that Vancouver refused to develop high development in most of the RAV Line and even parts of the existing Expo Line route (e.g. Broadway and Commercial) and refuses to have a cheaper and yet just as effective elevated Sky-Train at their precious "Heritage Blvd".
A) the high development around the RAV line will come. GUARANTEED. They're just avoiding the mess with having to approve it now.
B) The Broadway&Commercial was a mistake - GRANTED. No argument there. ONE mistake.
C) It's not the city that wanted to keep the "precious" Heritage Blvd. It was the residents of the area.

GUESS WHAT - you can't please everybody. Welcome to the wonderful world of politics.

Building an above-ground line upsets X amount of people
Building an underground line upsets Y amount of people/merchants.

What would you have them do? Not build the line at all? Wait don't answer that. You don't get a say - you don't LIVE IN THIS BLOODY TOWN.

What the city did is looked at X and looked at Y, realized that Y<X, and decided that underground was better. Capiche?
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Old August 10th, 2005, 04:11 AM   #217
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^ Where is your evidence for post #163 npinguy? I am still waiting....

And how can you guarantee that high development will come? And yes, residents who made the city make Cambie a Heritage Blvd! The residents alone cannot make a road a "Heritage Blvd", it requires the powers of city hall to make it happen.

As far as Coquitlam Line, I've heard that Skytrain to Coquitlam was a "done deal" back in 1999 but look what happened. You can plan all you want but planning leads to nowhere. I have yet to see the signed contract or even the approved Board Resolution that the Coquitlam Line is going to be built in 2009. So until that happens, it ain't happening.
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Old August 10th, 2005, 05:35 AM   #218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wally
^ Where is your evidence for post #163 npinguy? I am still waiting....
post 163 has nothing to do with you. It has to do with KGB.

Quote:
And how can you guarantee that high development will come?
Because of something we've discussed in another thread. Faith in good urban planning decisions by the local government. They have not let us down before and I don't see them letting us down in the future. Rapid transit lines always bring high development. Areas like Oakrdige and Broadway and King Edward are perfect for it. It would be idiotic not to bring it. And the only reason the densification hasn't been anounced is the nimbys would fight for it. But believe me, even IF the rezoning isn't announced around 2008/2009, once the line is in operation, the pressure from developers will be so much to take advantage of the now so easily acessible areas that the high development will come.

Quote:
And yes, residents who made the city make Cambie a Heritage Blvd! The residents alone cannot make a road a "Heritage Blvd", it requires the powers of city hall to make it happen.
They made it a heritage blvd years ago.

Quote:
As far as Coquitlam Line, I've heard that Skytrain to Coquitlam was a "done deal" back in 1999 but look what happened. You can plan all you want but planning leads to nowhere. I have yet to see the signed contract or even the approved Board Resolution that the Coquitlam Line is going to be built in 2009. So until that happens, it ain't happening.
It's not skytrain, it's LRT. It is a done deal. If it wasn't, it wouldn't be on Translink's official website. Stuff that ISN'T a done deal - like the Millenium line extension to UBC, etc are on other websites.
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Old August 10th, 2005, 05:49 AM   #219
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Well, I'm as curious about post# 163 as well so can you please present the evidence, assuming you have any. Because if not, then who lacks credibility then? All your posts are based on wishful thinking and baseless speculation. No one can predict the future and no amount of wishful thinking in your part will densify the Cambie Corridor.

And as far as "Heritage Blvd", it was only done so after the lobbying of the creme de la creme to make it so when Skytrain to Richmond was announced in the early 1990. I think officedweller has given the background about it in the other thread as well.

As far as the Coquitlam LRT, websites can be revised and nothing is a done deal unless the contracts are signed and construction has started. So unless the Coquitlam Line is truly a done deal in which the design is final, the contractor is selected, construction workers hired, property has been acquired, utilities have been relocated, and building materials are bought, aka that is the people of that area are really going to get their rapid transit finally built, one cannot use the argument that Vancouver pays for rapid transit improvements to Northeast residents because no such improvements exists! Because as far as the present day is concerned, only RAV is the "done deal" and at its current form, will suck the blood out of GVRD taxpayers and absolutely necessary Translink improvements like the Coquitlam Line and UBC Line now and until 2045!

Let me remind you that as part of the initial RAV vote to move the project to the BAFO stage, Ken Dobbel wanted to allocated $50 million of the already paltry $170 million provincial contribution for the Coquitlam Line as a financial cushion in case the RAV bidding went over budget, which it did! As you can see, even back then, RAV was already sucking the necessary funds allocated for other projects.

Last edited by [email protected]; August 10th, 2005 at 05:56 AM.
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Old August 10th, 2005, 06:33 AM   #220
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wally
Well, I'm as curious about post# 163 as well so can you please present the evidence, assuming you have any. Because if not, then who lacks credibility then? All your posts are based on wishful thinking and baseless speculation.
I know you'd like to turn it around on me, but I have shown REPEATEDLY just how little credibility you have - especially when it comes to discussing Vancouver transit, so you will not succeed.

I have already presented evidence of KGB's "exaggerations". He simply disagreed with me that they were exaggerations and that is why he disputed my 'evidence'. I can't make him accept his exaggerations anymore than you can convince someone that says "Vancouver is the greatest city on the planet bar none and i'm seriuos about that" that they're exaggerating.

Quote:
No one can predict the future and no amount of wishful thinking in your part will densify the Cambie Corridor.
I'm sorry? What was that? Nobody can predict the future? You seem to think you can when you repeat over and over and over again that the RAV ridership will fall below expected levels. Contradict yourself much Wally?

I can't predict the future. What I can do is look at the impact rapid transit lines in ANY city make on the density around the stations and I can say without any hesitation that at least some of the stations always have densification around them.
For the RAV line the primary suspects will be (as I already mentioned) Oakridge, King Edward, and Broadway. That's still less than HALF of the stations but it will be sufficient.

Quote:
And as far as "Heritage Blvd", it was only done so after the lobbying of the creme de la creme to make it so when Skytrain to Richmond was announced in the early 1990. I think officedweller has given the background about it in the other thread as well.
Skytrain to richmond wasn't announced in the early 90s. It was PROPOSED in the early 90s.

Creme de la cremes will do what is in their best interest. Always. So? You can't fight it.

An underground system may cost more? Yes. It may be teh fault of those creme de la cremes? Yes. Are we happy with thos bastards? No. But Vancouverites know teh system is necessary enough that we grind our teeth, bite teh bullet, and accept the line underground at a higher cost. And no amount of wishful thinking on YOUR part will change teh fact that the system DOES have the support of the population because it IS necessary.


Quote:
As far as the Coquitlam LRT, websites can be revised and nothing is a done deal unless the contracts are signed and construction has started. So unless the Coquitlam Line is truly a done deal in which the design is final, the contractor is selected, construction workers hired, property has been acquired, utilities have been relocated, and building materials are bought, aka that is the people of that area are really going to get their rapid transit finally built, one cannot use the argument that Vancouver pays for rapid transit improvements to Northeast residents because no such improvements exists! Because as far as the present day is concerned, only RAV is the "done deal" and at its current form, will suck the blood out of GVRD taxpayers and absolutely necessary Translink improvements like the Coquitlam Line and UBC Line now and until 2045!
You're being **** only for the purposes of fitting your point. You know things are never that simple. That's like saying that we're not allowed to discuss "approved" highrises as potentially existing in the city in the future - because it's not a done deal yet. "Oh no it's just appproved, they haven't started building it yet, therefore it's not a done deal."

That's bullshit and you know it. The coquitlam LRT is a done deal. End of story.

Quote:
Let me remind you that as part of the initial RAV vote to move the project to the BAFO stage, Ken Dobbel wanted to allocated $50 million of the already paltry $170 million provincial contribution for the Coquitlam Line as a financial cushion in case the RAV bidding went over budget, which it did! As you can see, even back then, RAV was already sucking the necessary funds allocated for other projects.
Whatever. It's 10X more important - not just for the city of Vancouver but for the entire Lower Mainland. It doesn't change the fact that the Coquitlam line WILL be built anyway.
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