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Old August 20th, 2005, 07:42 PM   #261
Bertez
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Ya, but how are you going to build new lines without money?? The budget cuts in the 1990's severly brought the quality of the TTC, so much that they need A LOT of money to fix it (Don't know the actually amount, but in the billions). Citizens fault?? Could be because they voted for Harris, but not really. Being the country's biggest city, and with the GTA bringing in close to 49% of it's GDP, you'd think that 49% of the funding would go there..... but strangely it isn't....
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Old August 20th, 2005, 08:47 PM   #262
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I don't know if it works that way. If the GTA is producing 49% of the Canada's GDP, you'd think it was already a well oiled machine. Other cities have to get their transportation systems up to speed.

Besides, a lot of people here feel Toronto's Transit is great. You think it needs to kick even more butt?
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Old August 20th, 2005, 08:49 PM   #263
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^What Toronto has now is not going to be adequate for the future.

Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected]_Coast
I think in the future Vancouver will have better transit system; they seem to keep moving the idea of extending and building more lines i.e. Millennium, RAV, Coquitlam and UBC. Where as Toronto has hit a road block not really building anything substantial for a while, there also seems to be nothing on the city’s radar screen either, it’s all hypothetical. People must keep in mind when comparing these two systems Toronto has been at this a lot longer then Vancouver, when it comes to building mass transit systems. Vancouver has done well playing catch up to other cities and I think it will continue into the future. I think it will take a very forward minded person to get Toronto back on track.People can complain all they want about the federal government not giving them enough money, but ultimately it is up to the citizens to get the kind of transit they want.
Yeah, okay there. It is pretty hard to spend money on transit improvements when a metro area puts over a billion dollars of taxes into a government on a monthly basis without ever seeing it back.

If it were as simple as a decision, you would likely see it in the form of an attempt to withdraw some financial support from the ROC.
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Old August 20th, 2005, 09:11 PM   #264
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Quote:
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^What Toronto has now is not going to be adequate for the future.
You could say that for all growing cities.
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Old August 21st, 2005, 03:45 AM   #265
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Lets sum this up:
Commuter rail..............standard intercity rail.
Subway/Metro..............mostly underground high volume carrier using heavy rail. Mostly serves urbanites rather than suburbanites.
SkyTrain......technically just Light rail but is elevated with no atgrade contact.
Streetcars are the same as trams, running down the middle of the road picking up passengers in the city for short hauls.
LRT is a relativly newer term. Very similar to streetcars except they serve more subway service, limited station ussually on own ROW, some underground, some using own briges and existing/abadnoned rail line.
Often the cars are joined as are subway cars. Stations are large, wheelchair accessible as are all the trains, stations are ussuallyhalf/km apart in city then every 1 to 2 km apart the further they go out of the core. They are built as hi speed/ridership rapid transit and are being built more and more as they can be anywhere from one third to one seventh the cost of underground subways and can be built much faster.
Examples of new LRTs are MinneapolisHiwarthaLine, Portland'sMAX, Dallas'sDART, and the most successful in N.A.,Calgary's CTrain.
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Old August 21st, 2005, 07:22 AM   #266
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Well they can't be built EVERYWHERE. On top of streets they can though - if locals allow it.
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Old August 21st, 2005, 10:40 PM   #267
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssiguy2
Lets sum this up:
Commuter rail..............standard intercity rail.
Subway/Metro..............mostly underground high volume carrier using heavy rail. Mostly serves urbanites rather than suburbanites.
SkyTrain......technically just Light rail but is elevated with no atgrade
I think Skytrain is a Metro and should be known as such instead of Light Rail which should be left to systems like in Portland. Here's something I read on Urbanrail-

What is a Metro?

1) An urban electric mass rail transport system, i.e. it is primarily used to move within the city
2) Totally independent from other traffic, rail or street traffic
3) High frequency service (maximum interval approx. 10 minutes during normal daytime service)

Obviously a metro does not have to be underground (this is why I prefer this term to 'subway' or 'underground' or 'U-Bahn' as all these terms imply a tunnel), it can also be elevated or at grade. A metro does not necessarily use heavy rail technology, therefore the Docklands Light Railway or the Lille VAL are full metro services, with the only difference that their capacity is smaller according to the needs of the city/area they serve. It's also irrelevant whether the metro runs on steel wheels or rubber tyres, is monorail or conventional double rail, uses third rail power supply or overhead wire, is fully automated or has a driver, has standard, narrow or broad gauge.
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Old August 22nd, 2005, 03:19 AM   #268
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Lets face it thou, I for one couldn't care less what I ride. If the Yonge subway line was underground but uses SkyTrain or LRT technology who cares? As long as I get there fast, safe, and efficiently. When it comes to rail its the service frequency, route and stations that matter the most not the kind of train.
This is where SkyTrain does poorly, it simply connects point to point travel instead of main roads. Calgary does a better job at this than Vancouver and hence percapita much higher ridership.
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Old August 22nd, 2005, 06:01 AM   #269
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You could call it a metro to make yourself feel better, but it's still LRT. In the 1930s, the TTC was going to hook up streetcars and put them underground - just like a subway, but with streetcars instead. You wouldn't call it a metro, it'd just be underground streetcar/LRT. Even if this were done today with the CLRVs and ALRVs, they'd still be called underground LRT. Narrow gauge, low capacity.
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Old August 22nd, 2005, 09:44 PM   #270
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Quote:
Originally Posted by addisonwesley
You could call it a metro to make yourself feel better, but it's still LRT. In the 1930s, the TTC was going to hook up streetcars and put them underground - just like a subway, but with streetcars instead. You wouldn't call it a metro, it'd just be underground streetcar/LRT. Even if this were done today with the CLRVs and ALRVs, they'd still be called underground LRT. Narrow gauge, low capacity.
what's the fastest teh streetcars can go?
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Old August 23rd, 2005, 02:00 AM   #271
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None.
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Old August 23rd, 2005, 02:01 AM   #272
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I don't know how fast they go, quite slowly. The only reason the subways in Montreal and Paris are called metros is because that is the french word for subway. So even if you were speaking french, you'd be wrong.
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Old August 23rd, 2005, 03:20 AM   #273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by addisonwesley
I don't know how fast they go, quite slowly.
that's my point. If you just put a streetcar underground, it wouldn't be a "metro"


but you put a Skytrain Bombardier-like car underground, and yes it's LRT, and yes it's lower mass, and yes it's lower capacity. But it's fast as hell and that would make it like metro.
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Old August 23rd, 2005, 04:13 AM   #274
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Fine, call it LRT- Light Rapid Transit.
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Old August 23rd, 2005, 04:57 AM   #275
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A certain Bambardier streetcar can travel at 80 km/h. I will find the CLRV speeds. And the skytrain wouldn't be a full scale subway, it doesn't have the capacity.
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Old August 25th, 2005, 12:29 AM   #276
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Greater Toronto Transit .VS. Greater Montreal Transit

The Age Old Battle Between Toronto and Montreal.
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Old August 25th, 2005, 12:56 AM   #277
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Both systems have subways that are similar in overall length. The TTC does carry more passengers than the STM but I think that they have an almost identical ridership percentage.

I personnally chose the TTC as I have found that it is much easier to transfer between surface routes and the subway/rt. The subway stations have shorter distances between the transfer areas.
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To quote some wise men whos names I can not remember:

"Conservative politics is like masterbation, it takes a lot of jerking things around and only pays off for those who do it."
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Old August 25th, 2005, 02:43 AM   #278
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The TCC IMO. STM has a better subway coverage in the downtown, and reaches a better area (not in terms of distance but which direction they go.) The TTC has a better reach of the city, going from almost east-west, and North-South, but not very complex. Other than that, the TTC has a better mix of streetcars and busses.
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Old August 25th, 2005, 04:28 AM   #279
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No poll?
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Old August 25th, 2005, 07:52 AM   #280
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STOP IT!
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