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Old August 25th, 2005, 04:53 PM   #281
Plumber73
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Please! Not everyone from Montreal speak up at once.
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Old August 28th, 2005, 07:54 AM   #282
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Having been able to travel on both systems, and trying both transit systems, I have to say each has their own feel to it. To me, the TTC is a more "bus" city in the way that the system was established, but managed to use the subway in a way to make it the backbone of its system (thus resulting in high rider ship numbers)

Montreal on the other hand is a much more "subway" city. The system is more designed to get you as close as possible to your destination on the metro, which is probably a result of the much harsher winters, and the fact that it has held major events in many areas of the city (ie. Ile Helene) and areas.

After travelling on both, I have to say I prefer Montreal's system in the way it's designed and the overall feel of the stations. Toronto has the nicer cars though (I dislike's Montreal's rubber tire cars).

On the other hand though, Montreal's Transit Authority is much more integral in the region than the TTC (by far.)
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AMT's territory spans 63 municipalities and one native reserve, 13 regional county municipalities, and 21 transit authorities. MT is also responsible for Montreal's commuter rail service, which links the downtown core with communities as far west as Rigaud, as far east as Mont-Saint-Hilaire, and as far north as Blainville.
Toronto's system on the other hand handles the only the local transit in Toronto and doesn't have any subway lines extending outside of its boundaries while Montreal either has a line extending to Laval, or is under construction.

Montreal also has the advantage in the fact that it runs the commuter rail in the region too. Toronto has always been somewhat hesitant to create a region wide transit authority (though I heard it's in the talks again) which would hopefully allow for seamless travel from Hamilton to Ajax/Pickering in concept, though TO city council has always seemed to say it would result in substance loses for Torontians, but still complain how not enough suburbanites use public transit.

Overall, Montreal is the system for me. It provides great coverage, easy to use, and gets you from point A to B quicker and seems to me just to be more organized.
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Old August 29th, 2005, 09:20 PM   #283
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The STM is FAAAAR superior to the TTC. Just by looking at the Métro/Subway we can see how Montréal's public transit is superior. Montréal being the densest city in Canada, evidently, has the best system in the country. Toronto's sprawling/American unrban model has made it extremely car dependent to the detriment of public transportation. It should come as no surprise that Toronto invests far less in transit that Montréal does.
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Old August 29th, 2005, 10:47 PM   #284
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Montreal has better downtown coverage on the metro, but I think the bus transfers aren't as good as Toronto. I like the efficiency of Toronto's stations, even though they are simpler in design, and and service is more frequent than Montréal's Metro. That there is a single authority that handles AMT and STM is a plus too. I think GO and the other Greater Toronto transit companies should form a single Greater Toronto Transit Authority for better cohesion.
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Old September 1st, 2005, 08:50 AM   #285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .affed
The STM is FAAAAR superior to the TTC. Just by looking at the Métro/Subway we can see how Montréal's public transit is superior. Montréal being the densest city in Canada, evidently, has the best system in the country. Toronto's sprawling/American unrban model has made it extremely car dependent to the detriment of public transportation. It should come as no surprise that Toronto invests far less in transit that Montréal does.
First of all, Toronto doesn't have as much money to invest as Montreal, since it gets little funding from higher levels of government. Second, the TTC has ridership per capita of 160 while STM has 180... and the subways systems not much difference, and there subway systems are similar size, so get your facts straight.
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Old September 1st, 2005, 10:16 AM   #286
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .affed
The STM is FAAAAR superior to the TTC. Just by looking at the Métro/Subway we can see how Montréal's public transit is superior. Montréal being the densest city in Canada, evidently, has the best system in the country. Toronto's sprawling/American unrban model has made it extremely car dependent to the detriment of public transportation. It should come as no surprise that Toronto invests far less in transit that Montréal does.
Looking over facts
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Old September 1st, 2005, 10:27 AM   #287
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Okay, O god HOLD ME BACK.

"Montreal being the densest city in Canada"

Lets tackle this one first. What made you think that? Just because you have the densest neighbourhood doesnt mean you have the densest city.

Montreal is more car dependant than Toronto you ignorent bastard.

OMG TORONTO FORUMERS HOLD ME BACK!!!

"Toronto invests far less in transit that Montréal does."

DO YOU KNOW WHY??????????? HUH??????? HUH???????

Maybe because the governement takes money from the TORONTO economy and give it to Vancover and Montreal. Leaves Toronto trying to gather up anything it can to even run the ****** TTC.

BTW, Toronto's car dependance is only second to NYC.

Doady how is that possible when STM ridership is 600,000... and TTC is 2,300,000?

1,197,500 through bus, 246,100 by streetcar, 45,000 by intermediate rail, and 855,300 by subway
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Old September 2nd, 2005, 01:46 AM   #288
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^Nice rant man.

The STM really cannot claim to be anything more that about equal to the TTC.
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Old September 2nd, 2005, 02:27 AM   #289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayeTheOnly
Okay, O god HOLD ME BACK.

"Montreal being the densest city in Canada"

Lets tackle this one first. What made you think that? Just because you have the densest neighbourhood doesnt mean you have the densest city.

Montreal is more car dependant than Toronto you ignorent bastard.

OMG TORONTO FORUMERS HOLD ME BACK!!!

"Toronto invests far less in transit that Montréal does."

DO YOU KNOW WHY??????????? HUH??????? HUH???????

Maybe because the governement takes money from the TORONTO economy and give it to Vancover and Montreal. Leaves Toronto trying to gather up anything it can to even run the ****** TTC.

BTW, Toronto's car dependance is only second to NYC.

Doady how is that possible when STM ridership is 600,000... and TTC is 2,300,000?

1,197,500 through bus, 246,100 by streetcar, 45,000 by intermediate rail, and 855,300 by subway
TTC ridership is 418 million annually while STM has 363 million. Not really much difference.

Anyways, Jaye, I think you need to calm down a little.
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Old September 2nd, 2005, 02:33 AM   #290
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I know, dont worry.
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Old September 3rd, 2005, 05:55 AM   #291
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .affed
The STM is FAAAAR superior to the TTC. Just by looking at the Métro/Subway we can see how Montréal's public transit is superior. Montréal being the densest city in Canada, evidently, has the best system in the country. Toronto's sprawling/American unrban model has made it extremely car dependent to the detriment of public transportation. It should come as no surprise that Toronto invests far less in transit that Montréal does.
Your wrong. Toronto is the least car dependent city in Canada and has per capita the most transit users. As for Toronto having urban sprawl so does Montreal. You can't tell me public transit is a viable alternative in the outer suburbs of Montreal.

While Montreal does have better subway service downtown, Toronto has, overall, the better transit system. There is no equlivent of streetcars in Montreal and there is minimal subway service in the suburbs.

As for Toronto investing less money this is mainly the result of higher orders of government not giving Toronto its fair share of cash rather than a lack of political will.
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Old September 3rd, 2005, 07:24 AM   #292
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^ Nicely put, better than my Ranting.
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Old September 3rd, 2005, 04:03 PM   #293
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True. With bus connections, streetcar service and subway service, I think Toronto's service downtown is better than Montreal's. I believe Ottawa is the least car-dependent city in Canada though.
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Old September 3rd, 2005, 07:06 PM   #294
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I've been on both, and they both need to be greatly expanded and improved.

http://www.winnipegrapidtransit.ca
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Old September 4th, 2005, 10:03 AM   #295
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They're pretty comparable, although nodal service is definetely better handled in Toronto, while downtown service is a bit better in Montreal, subway wise. But then again, the lack of a streetcar network for those transfers requires better downtown subway service.

The coolness factor of streetcars in general is a great advantage in my overall enjoyment of the city of Toronto, as well as its transit though.

Toronto's planning has been transit-friendly for ages now, and the city has generally grown smartly. It has the least subsidized system in the country, which suggests a high level of car indipendence. Toronto would like to spend a lot more, surely, but the federal government would rather not return some of the money back. Even still, it's an incredibly effective system with 3rd highest ridership in NA (after NYC and Mexico City), and in terms of cost recovery, one of the best in the world.

Last edited by salvius; September 4th, 2005 at 10:10 AM.
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Old September 6th, 2005, 11:41 PM   #296
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayeTheOnly
Okay, O god HOLD ME BACK.

"Montreal being the densest city in Canada"

Lets tackle this one first. What made you think that? Just because you have the densest neighbourhood doesnt mean you have the densest city.

Montreal is more car dependant than Toronto you ignorent bastard.

OMG TORONTO FORUMERS HOLD ME BACK!!!

"Toronto invests far less in transit that Montréal does."

DO YOU KNOW WHY??????????? HUH??????? HUH???????

Maybe because the governement takes money from the TORONTO economy and give it to Vancover and Montreal. Leaves Toronto trying to gather up anything it can to even run the ****** TTC.

BTW, Toronto's car dependance is only second to NYC.

Doady how is that possible when STM ridership is 600,000... and TTC is 2,300,000?

1,197,500 through bus, 246,100 by streetcar, 45,000 by intermediate rail, and 855,300 by subway
Blabbering like an uncontrolled oaf is no way to "tackle" any of my arguments... what facts do you have?

Montreal is by far the densest city in Canada. Everyone knows that! While two thirds of Greater Montreal live in Montreal-style triplex housing, Toronto is golden-ground for American-style suburbia. This makes Toronto more car-dependant than Montreal or any Candian city to the exception of, perhaps, Calgary. It is no surprise you claim to the widest freeway in Canada, or the longest street in the world. Toronto sprawls while Montreal and Vancouver have had vibrant neighbourhoods downtown for decades now... it is a new concept in Toronto.

The TTC is a systme made to feed downtown with the dwellers of Toronto's massive suburbia. Meanwhile Montreal's Metro comprehensivley covers downtown, the east island, north Montreal and the southwestern neighbourhoods.

Ridership per capita is HIGHER in Montreal.
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Old September 7th, 2005, 12:07 AM   #297
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .affed
Montreal is by far the densest city in Canada. Everyone knows that!
Just because everyone believes something doesn't make it true. Flat earth?
According to a report based on Statistics Canada info, Toronto has a population of 6841/sq mile while Montreal has 4790/sq mile
http://www.demographia.com/db-canua.htm

Quote:
Originally Posted by .affed
While two thirds of Greater Montreal live in Montreal-style triplex housing, Toronto is golden-ground for American-style suburbia. This makes Toronto more car-dependant than Montreal or any Candian city to the exception of, perhaps, Calgary. It is no surprise you claim to the widest freeway in Canada, or the longest street in the world. Toronto sprawls while Montreal and Vancouver have had vibrant neighbourhoods downtown for decades now... it is a new concept in Toronto.
I think you need to make clear when you're talking about the Greater Toronto area and when you're just talking about Toronto city proper. Also, Toronto has had vibrant residential neighbourhoods downtown for a long time. What's relatively new, though there's still been plenty in the past, is skyscraper highrise residential.
Quote:
Originally Posted by .affed
Ridership per capita is HIGHER in Montreal.
I believe this is true.
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Old September 7th, 2005, 12:19 AM   #298
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^ Thank you, didn't even have to argue.

Last edited by JayeTheOnly; September 7th, 2005 at 12:26 AM.
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Old September 7th, 2005, 12:25 AM   #299
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Transit Ridership PerCapita.

Montreal 206.26

Toronto 158.16

New York 131.52

Vancouver 118.19

Calgary 113.47

Ottawa 104.83

Chicago 72.09

Los Angeles 49.08

Denver 32.20

Phoenix 15.10
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Old September 7th, 2005, 12:37 AM   #300
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cassius
Just because everyone believes something doesn't make it true. Flat earth?
According to a report based on Statistics Canada info, Toronto has a population of 6841/sq mile while Montreal has 4790/sq mile
http://www.demographia.com/db-canua.htm
For statistics, I tend to trust more our own government statistics agency, rather than some dubious random American website. I would assume that Statscan has a little more reliable statistics on our cities and communities than "Demographia" (an unknown source) would.

From Statscan:

City of Montreal people/sq km = 5,590.8

Montreal CMA people/sq km = 846.6

City of Toronto people/sq km = 3,939.4

Toronto CMA people/sq km = 793.3

Now, if my math skills don't fail me, Montreal's numbers are clearly HIGHER.
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