Oldham Thread

[SmartCity]

The fact remains that most people here don't mind other races coming and living in the UK particularly if they can play a vital roll in the UK's economy. Most people simply don't care what colour, creed or religion somebody is. It's when the people we are talking about don't integrate into society. When they decide to set up there own area of town where people only speak their own language and follow their own culture and customs.

In many respects the British are equally as bad, in Spain on the Costa's, many of the British that are buying villas and apartments there don't attempt to integrate into Spanish society so they are equally as bad.

Basically, if you move to any country you should accept that you will have to adapt to their way of life and customs otherwise what's the point of being there. REALLY.....WHAT IS THE BLOODY POINT!!!

So what's the answer?

We should tighten up immigration so that anyone wanting to come to this country should have to pass a scoring system similar to that in Australia. The persons should have to play a vital roll in the countries economy otherwise no entry. No more of this my aunt and uncle live here, or I've just married my three wives and I want them all to come and live in the UK to be my slaves bullshit. People should be aware that they need to adopt the British culture and the British way of life whatever their religion, colour or creed. As should the British in the Costa's adopt the Spanish way of life.

[monkey_rat]

Originally Posted by wiggleyleeds

Look at all those who have a good old racist moan, and its alwys the thick shitheads who didnt have the ambition or education to do something with their lives and are stuck in the shitty place they have always lived.

As you can see from my posts above I think the racist comments in this thread are unforgiveable, but this classist attitude is almost as bad mate, people are only a product of their surroundings. Labelling them as idiots isn't going to help anybody and just serves to fester things even more. I told the guy above how wrong his racist comments were in the hope he might question his own attitude in future, just telling racists they are f*ckwits and insulting their life and situation is pointless and irresponsible.

[monkey_rat]

Originally Posted by cottonopolis

What absolute naive crap once again. Wiggley people like YOU scare me so much. I mean where does it end?? You´re so tolerant and "open minded" but in fifty to a hundred years when britons are becoming a minority and the majority have brought a culture so different to our own- will you still be clapping to your PC tune? When your kid´s kids can´t have christmas in school. When your wife has to wear a veil on the streets to avoid abuse. When freedom of speech is a thing of the past and religious critique comes with a death sentence. When the sense of national pride and togetherness is gone (all of course dirty right-wing words to you).. Will you still be clapping then?? Or will you only then see what a great mistake you made..

you're a bloody moron mate, you quote 'www.migrationwatch.co.uk' for a kickoff.

If you're so insistent on everything staying exactly how it is then why don't you argue for a return to paganism?

Do you have any irish ancestry? A large proportion of England does, two of my great grandparents were Irish, I don't view that as any different from a British born lad of Asian descent having Indian parents or grandparents. Oh wait aside from the fact they have dark skin, silly me.

As it is, I very much doubt that white British women will be wearing veils in the future, in the same way that I don't go round slurring and supping guinness all day.

( )

[scproductions]

Originally Posted by wiggleyleeds

deprived pakistani descent communities isolate themselves no more so than deprived white council estates communities. Deprived white council areas are can equally be insular, backwards, with tribal mentality. The people in these council areas refuse to integrate into main stream society, with high incideces of joblessness. They refuse to abide by british laws, with high ASBO rates, and joy riding and drug problems. They are intolerant and unfriendly to anyone who is diferent to them, and They have an us and them mentality (a bit like you).

You need to get out a bit more, and travel, and live in other places to get a real perspective, instead of basing everything on your primitive experiences in a grubby town thats full of crappy people like you - of whom everyone else moves out - and you wonder why investers dont invest in towns like oldham when its full of people with such a shitty mentality like u

i travel a hell of a lot mate. i've visted 6 different countries this year already and i travel around the UK all the time. i have lived in oldham all my life... therefore i think my observation is justified. i even come from an immigrant family, i myself am only 1/4 english, therefore if anything i should sympathise with people who have immigrated from different countires... but i cant do that with muslims.

SERIOUSLY if you moved to oldham your attitude would change.

them taking british jobs doesnt bother me in the slightest to be honest. its just their whole attitude which annoys me.

there is a definate differance between white communities and asian communities, and if you cannot see that then you are completely deluded.

people DO invest in oldham. our shopping centre is as good as any in this country, we have a great modern bus station, a theatre, social clubs, sports centres, a modern library, modern supermarkets, and a new junior university. the fact you suggest that oldham is a deprived town is extremely insulting... money isnt everything.

the people of oldham have welcomed black people. we have lots of ukranians in oldham (which makes up 1/4 of my own heritage) and the people of oldham have welcomed them. people dont have any issues with chinese people who live in oldham. its JUST the muslim-asians.

i attended oldham sixth form college (which is 50% asian) and though it was a mixed school it was very much segmented. asians would refuse to associate with us outside of the classroom (despite whites inviting them to "hang" with us). no asians would join in with extra-curricular activities. they just dont want to embrace british culture.

during 9/11 i remember oldham born asians posting images of the twin towers on fire around the town. they celebrated it. i found it to be absolutely desgusting... white communities didn't do that.

unless you live here you cannot understand what its like.

i think you'd find that nearly all white residants of oldham (and even the blacks) would share my views.

[wiggleyleeds]

Originally Posted by scproductions

i think you'd find that nearly all white residants of oldham (and even the blacks) would share my views.

Actually I know quite a few people who are from mancs but originally were from ex textile penine towns, and they all say they left coz of people with tribal insular views like youself.

If you dont like it there why dont you leave? I wouldnt dream of living in an area i hated. The fact that you have lived in oldham all your life speaks volumes. Most people who have your attitude, *always* have lived in that area all their life and have never lived in other areas to gain experiences. They make sweeping judgements based on the area they live in and somehow beleive the whole of the UK must be the same. The shitty problems you experience in your area is largely to do with deprivation that effects both the crappy white areas and the crappy asian areas. If you moved to leeds, you'd find the best areas and most affluent are the most ethnically mixed, such as moortown, alwoodley, chappel allerton all around north leeds as opposed to the white-only areas such as gipton and bramley etc.

If I was an invester, id be put of by people like you.

[scproductions]

Originally Posted by wiggleyleeds

Actually I know quite a few people who are from mancs but originally were from ex textile penine towns, and they all say they left coz of people with tribal insular views like youself.

If you dont like it there why dont you leave? I wouldnt dream of living in an area i hated. The fact that you have lived in oldham all your life speaks volumes. Most people who have your attitude, *always* have lived in that area all their life and have never lived in other areas to gain experiences. They make sweeping judgements based on the area they live in and somehow beleive the whole of the UK must be the same. The shitty problems you experience in your area is largely to do with deprivation that effects both the crappy white areas and the crappy asian areas. If you moved to leeds, you'd find the best areas and most affluent are the most ethnically mixed, such as moortown, alwoodley, chappel allerton all around north leeds as opposed to the white-only areas such as gipton and bramley etc.

If I was an invester, id be put of by people like you.

again, money and investment is not everything, i dont care about that. i dont want to move somewhere else just to benefit from investment.

i stayed in oldham because my elderly parents both lived here and i didnt want to abandon them. all my close friends live in oldham. i have a lovely house in oldham and my children are both in local schools. all my history is in oldham aswell, and i dont want to abandon that.

the area of oldham i live in is indeed much nicer than many places i've seen in south manchester. its clean, tidy, the neighbours are nice, the estate is nice, and i have a lovely house. i dont want to move away.

the only problems i face are those created when i visit asian areas (which at the moment do not directly affect me) for reasons which i have already stated.

The shitty problems you experience in your area is largely to do with deprivation that effects both the crappy white areas and the crappy asian areas.

i dont actually think any of the arguments i've used have related to money, theyve related to cultural differences and attitude. my area is fine.

I know quite a few people who are from mancs but originally were from ex textile penine towns, and they all say they left coz of people with tribal insular views like youself.

i highly doubt it. many people leave due to the sheer number of asians that are moving here. even so, you meeting one or two ex residants of oldham does not mean to say that all 150,000 of us share the same view.

interestingly enough... when you look at the average figures of poeple who are moving away from oldham, the majority of them live nearest to the asian sections of town.

[leebuk2005]

Originally Posted by wiggleyleeds

deprived pakistani descent communities isolate themselves no more so than deprived white council estates communities. Deprived white council areas are can equally be insular, backwards, with tribal mentality. The people in these council areas refuse to integrate into main stream society, with high incideces of joblessness. They refuse to abide by british laws, with high ASBO rates, and joy riding and drug problems. They are intolerant and unfriendly to anyone who is diferent to them, and They have an us and them mentality (a bit like you).

You need to get out a bit more, and travel, and live in other places to get a real perspective, instead of basing everything on your primitive experiences in a grubby town thats full of crappy people like you - of whom everyone else moves out - and you wonder why investers dont invest in towns like oldham when its full of people with such a shitty mentality like u

Sorry mate but i'm from a council estate. I have no ASBO, I actualy have a degree in Multimedia design and so does my sister in Fashion design. You are classist and an ass hole too i'm afraid.

[wiggleyleeds]

lol no offence but i thought you were about 16 or something. Its sad to hear you have children and are so eaten up with hatred. Does it not concern you that one day your children will grow up and possibley read these threads, i truely am embarresed for you.

But let me take an opposing example of how illogical you are. Lets say I lived next to a white-only council area of leeds. I'd find all the problems in the area associated with this demograhpic, who keep themselves to themselves, do not intergrate, refuse to mix with others, keep themselves to themselves, go against british laws, drive u-insured cars, have all their 10 kids playing in the streets, with all their streets littered with rubbish, and untidy gardens, have a tribal insular mentally. If I had the same mentality as you, and had never lived anywhere else, and didnt know any better, I would think all white people were like this.

I would be very ashamed and embaressed to think like this, because it is illogical. And i'd lack any integrity if i was to come on line spouting ill-conceived hatred against all white people based on my own very narrow experiences. And i'd feel even more ashamed if I had kids and they saw me acting like this.

Since moving up north and seeing areas like these penine towns and hearing the backward tribal views of people like this its so shocking to imagine its the same country, when back in London, which is much more ethnically mixed, these problems just dont exist.

You complain about specific problems with the asians in the crappy area you live in yet fail to appreciate the problems you have with the asians in the areas you live in are identical to the problems seen in white council areas. Both share exactly the same socio economic status, and both have similar traits. Due to the fact you have only ever lived in this awful area all your life you fail to appreciate that if you moved to more affluent areas, the asians in those areas do not demonstrate the same traits, and if you move away from deprived white council areas, you find white people do not demonstrate the same traits.

[wiggleyleeds]

Originally Posted by leebuk2005

Sorry mate but i'm from a council estate. I have no ASBO, I actualy have a degree in Multimedia design and so does my sister in Fashion design. You are classist and an ass hole too i'm afraid.

and you prove how making crass generalisations and assumptions from just experiencing a very narrow life persepctive is fundamentally wrong, and quite nasty.

[Isaac Newell]

Originally Posted by wiggleyleeds

Since moving up north and seeing areas like these penine towns and hearing the backward tribal views of people like this its so shocking to imagine its the same country, when back in London, which is much more ethnically mixed, these problems just dont exist.

How many BNP councilors does the London Borough of Barking and Dagenham have ?

[Chorltonred]

Originally Posted by Isaac Newell

How many BNP councilors does the London Borough of Barking and Dagenham have ?

I have to say I completely with the Leeds chap on this. There really is some ignorant racist nonsense on this thread.

However being from a mill town myself (Bury) and having lived in the East End of London, I can tell you one thing - London has a significant and malignant racism problem, far worse than anything I ever experienced up here.

And I have to say it was largely driven by the older whites from the area. East Ham where I lived was 50:50 whites and non-whites, but you'd hardly ever see any non-whites in the pubs. Many of the pubs had 'no-travellers' signs in the windows. I was soon informed that this meant 'no-blacks'. Even 'Norvern Monkees' like myself weren't immune to being given shite by the loveable cokernee rogues. Not surpisingly most of the pubs were half empty most of the time.

Not surpisingly I chose to socialise in central London where the atmosphere was considerably more hospitable.

Of course there is a cultural element to the non-integration of some asian communities. Many are first generation immigrants who can't speak English properly. The segregation in schools is a big problem. But has already been pointed out these are to do with socio-economic conditions, not race. Tarring whole ethnic communities with the same brush is racism, pure and simple.

[LDN_EUROPE]

Background I'm white English and British and live in China...

anyway, it seems to me that religion plays a big part in segregated communities. With other communities over time people mix, marry and complete cohesion occurs. Let's think about the West Indians that moved to the UK... in a huge number of cases 2nd and 3rd generations have married other groups and become very 'British'.

When religion comes into it then there is more of a timeless feel about the situation. It becomes a numbers game. If you think people will NEVER mix then you can start plotting graphs about birth rates and population movements etc. People become very negative at the inevitability of cultural change etc.

I think there are several future scenarios. 1) Is the very worst some kind of Northern Ireland situation. 2) Muslims realise that the ancestors 'home countries' such as India etc are actually much more forward looking and modern now and they start to change attitudes too. 3) Over time values of all groups of people change and become more and more similar until there is little difference (except possibly which church/mosque) people go to. 4) As global movement continues to improve we get used to being 'Multi-cultural' and living amongst other groups of people. People would feel closer to other 'similar' people in other parts of the world rather than their neighbours.

Now, I'm an optimist and I really hope it will be scenario 3. However I think it will be partly 3, partly 4 and unfortunately a little of 1.

I personally think there shouldn't be ANY publicly funded religious schools in the UK. If people want to send their kids to a religious school they should have to pay for it by going private. I don't want my country to be divided.


I can see this argument from many sides... My girlfriend is a different race from me so you can't call me racist. I think most people on this thread are saying they aren't and 'don't want to be' racist but they can't fail to see what is in front of there eyes. Its easy for people to be philosophical and say in 50 or 100 years time community cohesion will have happened. However... some people like some of these forumers live in divided communities FACT. They see it from their side and some British asians see it from another side. However, today in 2007 it is still FACT.

Where do we go from here? I don't claim to have the answers. I would hope for... no more religious schools or political demographic movement. A merit based immigration system that promotes diversity (i.e. immigrants coming from a wide variety of backgrounds rather than a few countries). People working towards communities working together.

Other communities in other parts of the UK can do it and do it happily.

[Isaac Newell]

Originally Posted by Chorltonred

I have to say I completely with the Leeds chap on this. There really is some ignorant racist nonsense on this thread.

However being from a mill town myself (Bury) and having lived in the East End of London, I can tell you one thing - London has a significant and malignant racism problem, far worse than anything I ever experienced up here.

And I have to say it was largely driven by the older whites from the area. East Ham where I lived was 50:50 whites and non-whites, but you'd hardly ever see any non-whites in the pubs. Many of the pubs had 'no-travellers' signs in the windows. I was soon informed that this meant 'no-blacks'. Even 'Norvern Monkees' like myself weren't immune to being given shite by the loveable cokernee rogues. Not surpisingly most of the pubs were half empty most of the time.

Not surpisingly I chose to socialise in central London where the atmosphere was considerably more hospitable.

Of course there is a cultural element to the non-integration of some asian communities. Many are first generation immigrants who can't speak English properly. The segregation in schools is a big problem. But has already been pointed out these are to do with socio-economic conditions, not race. Tarring whole ethnic communities with the same brush is racism, pure and simple.

I used to live opposite "Cafe Sheezan" on Barking Rd. I've never been in a pub in East Ham though, East London pubs are full of bitter anglo/irish, anglo/anglo working class with an axe to grind against anyone outside their immediate family and friends.

[LDN_EUROPE]

I also have a big stake in people's opinion about this because if we ever decide to have children and move to the UK I wonder how some forumers would think about or treat my future children.

Some people's attitudes (sometimes attitudes created for VERY understandable reasons) make me think that the UK would not be a good place for me to raise mixed race children.

[LDN_EUROPE]

I'm interested to know... in northern towns like Oldham are new groups moving to the town such as East Europeans?

Some of my family are from Slough and its quite interesting to watch how the British asians become the group complaining about newcomers and the area changing etc. its also interesting that because this new group of newcomers is quite similar -culturally- to the UK majority - people aren't that hostile about it. BUT at the same time people don't feel guilty about complaining about them.

[Chorltonred]

Originally Posted by LDN_EUROPE

I also have a big stake in people's opinion about this because if we ever decide to have children and move to the UK I wonder how some forumers would think about or treat my future children.

Some people's attitudes (sometimes attitudes created for VERY understandable reasons) make me think that the UK would not be a good place for me to raise mixed race children.

The UK is generally an incredibly tolerant society. It is perhaps symptomatic of this that a huge debate and considerable angst over race can be generated amongst a few nerds on a skyscraper forum. If anything, it something that is worried about too much over here.

[LDN_EUROPE]

I know I'm being picky and I know you're being supportive but I hate the word 'tolerant'. Its like not liking something but getting on with it anyway with a stiff upper lip rather than embracing and enjoying the difference. know what i mean? However, I'm not sure if the English language has a better word to describe what you're trying to say ;-)

[Chorltonred]

Originally Posted by LDN_EUROPE

I know I'm being picky and I know you're being supportive but I hate the word 'tolerant'. Its like not liking something but getting on with it anyway with a stiff upper lip rather than embracing and enjoying the difference. know what i mean? However, I'm not sure if the English language has a better word to describe what you're trying to say ;-)

Embracing. Accepting. Absorbing. Relishing (in the case of curries for me).

[Chorltonred]

Oh and also loving in my case. My wife is an immigrant jew from Namibia!

[LDN_EUROPE]

I'd like to add those pictures of Muslims in London with banners about hate make my blood boil. Just as pictures of the BNP using MY British flag to create hate also makes my blood boil.

UNITED Kingdom. I will always be an optimist. I LOVE the UK and anyone that hates it be they racist black, brown, white or yellow should leave. There are plenty of less diverse countries they can live in.