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View Poll Results: Rate the skyline
10 67 19.88%
9.5 14 4.15%
9 20 5.93%
8.5 11 3.26%
8 26 7.72%
7.5 14 4.15%
7 33 9.79%
6.5 21 6.23%
6 31 9.20%
5.5 7 2.08%
5 22 6.53%
4.5 10 2.97%
4 19 5.64%
3.5 6 1.78%
3 or less 36 10.68%
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Old March 27th, 2013, 01:32 AM   #221
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The Paranoá Lake - Brasília, Distrito Federal por Visit Brasil, no Flickr

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Old March 31st, 2013, 04:12 AM   #222
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Cathedral - Brasília, Distrito Federal por Visit Brasil, no Flickr
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Old March 31st, 2013, 09:27 PM   #223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RPFigueiredo View Post

Again, all on purpose. In fact, the design of Brasília does not produce the skyline which is appreciated around here, but it should be noted that, as I explained in my post above, that this is no indication of the city's success.
Brasília is unique. While you have so many crowded skilines with high rises around the world, you can't find such an opened (inside-out) city anywhere else.
I'm curious as to what you mean by that.
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Old April 2nd, 2013, 12:15 PM   #224
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wow!
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Old April 7th, 2013, 01:07 AM   #225
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Old April 7th, 2013, 03:02 AM   #226
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Quote:
Originally Posted by èđđeůx View Post
I'm curious as to what you mean by that.
Actually the last two pictures show what I mean by that. Brasília does not have a single centre - it's disposition is wide open, having even two 'centres': the crossing of the two axes and the Square of the Three Powers.

To exemplify, try to imagine another large capital where you can actually watch the sunrise and the sunset from the city centre... That's rare!
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Old April 11th, 2013, 11:27 PM   #227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RPFigueiredo View Post
Actually the last two pictures show what I mean by that. Brasília does not have a single centre - it's disposition is wide open, having even two 'centres': the crossing of the two axes and the Square of the Three Powers.

To exemplify, try to imagine another large capital where you can actually watch the sunrise and the sunset from the city centre... That's rare!
There are numerous cities across the globe, some capital, where there isn't a single centre. Instead you have a more suburban feel (what I get from Brasilia) than urban where either the population or business isn't concentrated in one or a few areas.

As for sunsets and sun rises, well of course you can watch them from city centers. Not all cities, capitals included, block them out with large skyscrapers and concrete jungles without much greenery.

Brasilia seems like a neat city, but its layout really isn't anything special.
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Old April 12th, 2013, 08:52 PM   #228
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Sorry, I don't mean to be disrespectful, but do you study architecture/urban planning? The one thing which is extremely special about Brasília is the layout! It is, together with Chandigahr, the only city planned and built from scratch according to the Athens Chart, and therefore one of the most studied layouts of the 20th century.



It's an extremely classic interpretation of the corbusian ideals, rather utopic but combining a very monumental aspect in the governmental axis (reminds you of Hausmann?), with a bucolic and new concept of housing in its superquadras. As mentioned here, there are countless problems that the city faces, regarding density/transportation etc. but it undoubtfuly succeeded in the integration between urban planning, architecture and landscaping.

Not to mention the resemblance to an airplane, which is commonly refered to as the ultimate modernist ideal of form following function (again Corbusier - Vers une architecture). Of course, the city wasn't designed with this analogy in mind. But the logic and delicacy of volumtric disposition that characterises the plan is something unique (which is good - the Athens Chart has proven to be far from ideal).
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Old April 13th, 2013, 06:51 PM   #229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RPFigueiredo View Post

Sorry, I don't mean to be disrespectful, but do you study architecture/urban planning? The one thing which is extremely special about Brasília is the layout! It is, together with Chandigahr, the only city planned and built from scratch according to the Athens Chart, and therefore one of the most studied layouts of the 20th century.



It's an extremely classic interpretation of the corbusian ideals, rather utopic but combining a very monumental aspect in the governmental axis (reminds you of Hausmann?), with a bucolic and new concept of housing in its superquadras. As mentioned here, there are countless problems that the city faces, regarding density/transportation etc. but it undoubtfuly succeeded in the integration between urban planning, architecture and landscaping.

Not to mention the resemblance to an airplane, which is commonly refered to as the ultimate modernist ideal of form following function (again Corbusier - Vers une architecture). Of course, the city wasn't designed with this analogy in mind. But the logic and delicacy of volumtric disposition that characterises the plan is something unique (which is good - the Athens Chart has proven to be far from ideal).
Really? Brazil moved its capital from Rio de Janeiro to a city planned to resemble an airplane? That's your mea culpa. Brasilia is supposed to be this symbolic city but it comes across looking like a hot mess. It's no different than Gurgaon or Long Beach or Minsk. It's just another city in the pile. To me it doesn't offer anything special or anything that showcases the beauty of Brazil. It's a farce! It's Kubitschek's merry little project. So now Brazil has a glorified provincial town that wouldn't even be recognized were it not for its status as the capital. And Brasilia's urban planning is symbolic and all, sure, but it doesn't strike me as particularly interesting. You want to talk about interesting urban planning? Let's talk Curitiba, let's talk Porto Alegre. Not Brasilia. Sometimes it's not a bad thing to let a city grow organically. This whole notion that you can boil down a city's future to some formulaic nonsense ("But the logic and delicacy of volumtric disposition that characterises the plan is something unique") is just ridiculous. I can name the 50 greatest cities in Latin America and Brasilia wouldn't even be among them. Ask people to name the most beautiful cities and you'll get Ouro Preto before you get Brasilia. It's nothing special, really. The capital should return to Rio. Ask people to name the most interesting or beautiful cities in India and I assure you Chandigarh won't be in the Top 50 there either. Nobody cares about these symbolic maps and proportions. Sorry.
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Old April 13th, 2013, 07:26 PM   #230
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Sorry, I think you misinterpreted what I said. I mentioned that Brasília resembles an airplane, which is the basis of some poetic interpretation by some people. But that was not the purpose. I respect your opinion that 'it comes across looking like a hot mess', but it surprises me your lack of humility in recognising that this cannot, by any means, be accepted as a fact. Also, would you please be more specific about how Brasília is a 'glorified provincial town'? This statement strikes me as a little odd, given it is the 4th largest city in Brazil, with a population over 2.6 million.

Regarding the plan, you may not like it, but what exactly is your definition of interesting? I think it is interesting because you can count on one hand the number of entire cities designed and built according to modernist utopian ideals. However, if you define interesting as 'good', then perhaps I can start to understand your point. May I, though, point out that you are judging the plan with contemporary eyes, and that's a bit dangerous - and unacceptable in academic terms. The brilliance of its layout can only be perceived with 1950 and 60s theory in mind. You cannot isolate the artwork from its context. It loses meaning.

Perhaps you should send this biased message to the people in UNESCO, who recognised the merit of the whole projct when it granted Brasília the status of Cultural Heritage. Again, I am not defending Brasílias plan as a solution, or as an option. It's not (by far) the 'best plan' as some people may think. But it represents a lot to us Brazilians because it embodies in streets, concrete, glass and steel the spirit of its time. During Kubitchek's government our industry grew, we won our first world cup, and we believed that we could be a great country. And there lies only part (though the most famous) talent of Niemeyer - you can feel all this just by seing the elegant and timeless composition of the Alvorada Palace.

Perhaps you should learn to appreciate diverse things in life. As they say here, Rio is work of god, São Paulo is the work of man. Brasília is a work of art. And that's why the city is both praised and criticized. I would only hope that some criticism was better informed and substantiated though content, not tone.
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Old April 13th, 2013, 07:40 PM   #231
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Just a layman would say that Brasilia has nothing special, interesting or even beautiful, but why?

1st Brasilia is so well planned and organized a symbol of the architecture of humanity which was recognized by UNESCO

2nd It's a city symbol and reference in Latin America for its human development and urban

3rd The city has brought numerous economic and political benefits for Brazil.

You can not say that Brasilia is not a unique and special, look to the modernist architecture, the urban plan, the green areas, the quality of the transportation system, the quality of life. The fact is: Brasilia since its construction was a controversy with the people who love them and others hate it, but there is a consensus that it is one of the most well planned and most innovative and lush architecture of the world.
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Old April 13th, 2013, 07:49 PM   #232
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The plan has its qualities, of course... and its most serious problems are more circumstantial than projectual. However, although beautiful, the large open spaces that allow the innovative and lush architecture does brings problems for those who live in it.

Brasília shouldn't be repeated, that's common sense. But its example of a brand new capital will definetly be the most valid case study if another nation dares to do something similar. It's lovely to live in the superquadras, with all its trees and small buildings. And at the same time you have that monumental though light, governmental axis.

And the conection between the two, with the larger commercial areas, makes it even more beautiful and readly undestandable. There lies Lucio Costa's contribution to 20th century urbanism.

Last edited by RPFigueiredo; April 13th, 2013 at 08:56 PM.
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Old April 13th, 2013, 10:51 PM   #233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RPFigueiredo View Post

Sorry, I don't mean to be disrespectful, but do you study architecture/urban planning? The one thing which is extremely special about Brasília is the layout! It is, together with Chandigahr, the only city planned and built from scratch according to the Athens Chart, and therefore one of the most studied layouts of the 20th century.

No I haven't. But I really could care less. The city from pictures doesn't look exactly special in anyway that stands out from other cities across the world.

Quote:
It's an extremely classic interpretation of the corbusian ideals, rather utopic but combining a very monumental aspect in the governmental axis (reminds you of Hausmann?), with a bucolic and new concept of housing in its superquadras. As mentioned here, there are countless problems that the city faces, regarding density/transportation etc. but it undoubtfuly succeeded in the integration between urban planning, architecture and landscaping.
And the outcome of that is that it looks like a suburban American city?

Quote:
Not to mention the resemblance to an airplane, which is commonly refered to as the ultimate modernist ideal of form following function (again Corbusier - Vers une architecture). Of course, the city wasn't designed with this analogy in mind. But the logic and delicacy of volumtric disposition that characterises the plan is something unique (which is good - the Athens Chart has proven to be far from ideal).
Resembling an airplane, I'm sorry but in a section judging skylines, are we really supposed to care?
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Old April 13th, 2013, 11:06 PM   #234
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Yep, is really common see this in any city of the world

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Old April 13th, 2013, 11:06 PM   #235
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Old April 13th, 2013, 11:06 PM   #236
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Brasília, DF (6) por Jorge BRAZIL, no Flickr
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Old April 13th, 2013, 11:07 PM   #237
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Old April 14th, 2013, 12:00 AM   #238
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Quote:
Originally Posted by èđđeůx View Post
No I haven't. But I really could care less. The city from pictures doesn't look exactly special in anyway that stands out from other cities across the world.


And the outcome of that is that it looks like a suburban American city?


Resembling an airplane, I'm sorry but in a section judging skylines, are we really supposed to care?
I was actually gonna write a bit more trying to explain the role Brazil played in the development of modern architecture during the past century and about the development of a light, democratic monumentality, but since 'you couldn't care less', I'll keep living and let live. Go enjoy the monstruosity that is Dubai. I'm am sure that you consider that to be more 'unique' and less 'suburban' than this:

















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I know many of you consider this last example to be a boring, boxy building, but please remember that we're part of a diferent culture. We are simple people who prefer elegance over opulence.
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Old April 14th, 2013, 12:14 AM   #239
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A good set showing the Esplanade:






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Old April 14th, 2013, 01:01 AM   #240
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RPFigueiredo, let's look at these pictures one-by-one


Tell me what is beautiful about this landscape. I see a flat wasteland with two concrete monstrosities called 'modernist gems'. It looks like a picture taken in 1960 in any random Soviet city. You may hate opulence but when I look at the seat of the world's 7th largest economy like Brazil, I expect to see a building that exhibits opulence and dignity. What do we have instead? Two side-by-side commieblocks, a massive plaza that looks like an American-style surface parking lot, a barren terrain with no discernible landscape or terraforming to note and two buildings beside the parking lot that look like my elementary school. That's noteworthy to you? That's somehow beautiful to you? It looks like an old American office park.

Let's look at this one now:

Again, tell me how this showcases urbanity. It looks like a ghost town. Ugly old apartments and massive streets that destroy any chance of a vibrant pedestrian cityscape. Where are the sidewalks? Or is this car-dependant hellscape supposed to be beautiful as well. Just because a picture is black and white doesn't make it beautiful my friend


Again, what's so special here? You tell me Brasilia is supposed to be unique yet this is clearly a two-bit knockoff of the National Mall in Washington DC. The only problem is that unlike the mall there's no street-level vibrancy. Then you have six-lane highways next to this supposed pedestrian-friendly park near the Capital. How does this foster vibrancy? This picture could be Nairobi or Abuja or Maputo or any third world city. There's nothing particularly beautiful to look at here.

Here's Washington DC's National Mall by comparison:


Now Washington has many problems as well but all in all is a very beautiful city. Washington blends beautiful lush vegetation with a dignified and opulent building. It follows symmetry but also respects urbanity. There is a corridor (the National Mall) just like in Brasilia but there aren't massive highways sectioning off the National Mall. Unlike Brasilia where the corridor is full of ministries, the National Mall in the US is home to all of America's greatest treasures. From the National Gallery of Art to the Air and Space Museum, you could spend a week just looking at everything in the National Mall. DC also is a city with few highrises but has a lot more urbanity to it that is lacking in Brasilia. Brasilia has a density of 1,145 per square mile. Washington has a density of 10,000+ per square mile. Brasilia seems committed to making sure all parts of the city look the same. Washington DC has various different neighborhoods with different architecture (Chinatown, Georgetown, Atlas District, Adams-Morgan). So Washington has symmetry and all that formulaic nonsense but it also manages to blend an urban layout with a strong commitment to a vibrant street-level landscape. So it's definitely possible to blend both. I'm not against urban planning and I'm not against modernism. I'm against the way it was implemented in Brasilia where you now have a capitol that looks dead, bland, ugly, full of concrete, and empty. Brasilia has 2.6 million people but it looks like Tyson's Corner, Virginia an office park of 50,000. That's not something to be proud of

Tyson's Corner




Tell me how Brasilia looks any different than this dry American city of 50,000?
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Last edited by Manitopiaaa; April 14th, 2013 at 01:08 AM.
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