Glasgow | Glasgow Metro Area Airports | News & Developments

[Boards]

Originally Posted by Chief

Yeah, it's pointless discussing things with people who will twist your words to fit with their own point. Great weather we've had these past few days, eh lads?

Yeah was late-night shopping in town. Sat in Royal Exchange Square enjoying a coffee with the sun beating down - was so laid back and relaxed. Drove out onto the M8 traffic was good and the sun was still out - 15 minutes later was crossing the moors down to Kilmarnock and it was glorious -cant beat this city. When our motorway network is free-flowing it does a fantastic job.

[BigAirdrie]

With the very notable exception of the Glasgow - Edinburgh Maglev link, why should any of these plans be described as hair brained? Glasgow has the only metro system in the world that has never been extended since its inception over a hundred years ago - surely the city is crying out for an extension to the network, particularly the underdeveloped east end. This comment shows the lack of ambition or perhaps total resignation that is holding Glasgow back. Cities that are comparable to Glasgow, the Glasgow conurbation in population terms have far more developed underground rail networks and/or tram systems. In France, Toulouse, Lille and Rennes have seen massive investment in successful Metro networks - Bordeaux has spent upwards of a billion euros on its new tram system - none of these plans were seen as hair brained - and this in cities which have less than half the population of Glasgow and significantly higher levels of car ownership. SPT should be applauded for having a wee bit of foresight and trying to run an urban transport network that gets far less financial support than it should. Crossrail and the airport rail link get my wholehearted support as, although they are somewhat lacking in ambition, they are at least a step in the right direction. Public transport in Britain has, with the exception of London, been overlooked for too long, so quit your moaning Wilforbes. if you want to talk about reasonable cost, look at the projections for crossrail in London - a city that is already a financial blackhole in terms of transport funding. Long live the rail link and all the other hair brained schemes!!

[Wilforbes]

BigAirdrie, do we have a communication problem?

Originally Posted by Wilforbes

For the avoidance of doubt I am a rail link supporter – if not the rail link supporter. I would also like to see money invested in public transport; but not invested badly;

I note that you think the SPT should be applauded for having foresight; that's a joke, or you work for them, right? The SPT have added nothing but needless cost to the rail link scheme (which existed long before their previous two logo/colour changes) but as Mori suggested, their collateral and clout may see them through, even though it will cost the best part of £40m more than it should.

As for extending the Underground, forget it. As you say it was built 100 years ago for 100 year old people (generally a foot shorter than these days). The Underground should be a centre piece of an integrated urban transit system extending beyond the city boundary. It should be fully automated (driverless) and speeded up. At certain stations there should be transport hubs à la Partick. Please note my call for a similar interchange at West Street as part of my airport rail link and a people mover between St. Enoch and Central. New, alternative transport systems can also be introduced to interchange with our existing networks but if it is a system let it be a full system. Not a sop such as the suggested tram connection to the airport. It would never work – too much support infrastructure for one measly (and as asdfg suggests) slow line. Where would the depot be? How many staff needed? How many traction units? In short, if you are doing trams you have to defray the infrastructure cost by making it as extensive as possible. In your excellent list of tram towns you did of course omit our friends in the east, who are planning their own billion euro system.

I must agree on the lack of ambition. The SPT would do their case no harm if they were to suggest that the airport rail link was a first phase development of a well thought out long term plan. In the short term CrossRail would be next with the longer term ambition to complete the “Airport Loop” (on through the Airport to Renfrew/Braehead and back to Hillington); the Clyde Crossing (Renfrew/Yoker) and the east end tunnels.

And finally, Park and Ride. £160m being spent on railways and not one Park and Ride space included. Why? Don’t suppose it has anything to do with protecting the shiny new car park at Scotland St? Perhaps the SPT are more ambitious than you give them credit for.

Stop moaning? Don’t get me started.

[gorgu]

Tell you what come and live in Sydney and THEN start moaninig about public transport

[Glasgow 2097]

I found the Sydney Airport rail link and city centre rail network to be quite good when I was on them just after the New Year. I can imagine the double-decker trains are a nightmare when they're crowded, but they were quiet whenever I was on them (usually going from Central to Circular Quay).

I only used the buses once, going from Bondi Beach to Circular Quay, which took ages but was an okay ride. The ticket inspectors didn't impress me - a Spanish tourist in front of me hadn't validated his ticket properly, so they not only threatened to kick him off the bus and fine him, they also threatened to arrest him and deport him! Sure beats "come oan, get aff", doesn't it? I did read in a newspaper while I was there that people were worrying about Sydney becoming a city "choked with buses". I thought of Glasgow at that very moment.

The tram system doesn't seem to be particularly useful - takes you from Central Station to the Star City Casino and back again. And the monorail doesn't seem to be anything more than a 'did it because we could' exercise, as it only goes around Darling Harbour and a small portion of the city in what amounts to a small circle. Still, fun to go around once.

The puzzling thing was, when railtracks in Australia are generally built in straight lines, why do the trains never get above crawling pace (going from Sydney to Brisbane on the train took over six hours when driving would have taken five). Another quirk we noticed was that there is virtually no fencing anywhere along the Melbourne suburban lines preventing people from just crossing the tracks on foot when they feel like it - is this common in Australia?

[The Boy David]

Hmmmm, not too sure what to make of this situation now, Will you have thrown a great pile of doubts into my mind about the link...

But it needs to go ahead, and in my opinion, surely a rail link of some sorts is better than no rail link at all? Is that too defeatist an attitude for something so important? I'm not too sure really...


One thing I must comment on is that widening motorways does not ease congestion. In our case, an extra lane at the airport might be beneficial, but in the grand scheme of things the M8 was built as wide as it could go - you'll struggle to find any space left to widen it...

[gorgu]

[QUOTE=Glasgow 2097]I found the Sydney Airport rail link and city centre rail network to be quite good when I was on them just after the New Year. I can imagine the double-decker trains are a nightmare when they're crowded, but they were quiet whenever I was on them (usually going from Central to Circular Quay).

Well you must have had a good couple of days then cos the airport link is virtually bankrupt because noone uses it! It cost twice as much to use it per kilometer as the rest of the network and because of that everyone just gets taxis to the airport.

The trains are so decrepit that there is no air conditioning (in a city where 40 degrees in summmer is not unusual). The trains breakdown so often that city rail had to 'reorganise' their timetable, which meant reduscing the number of trains of the network and making them go slower so that they could meet their reliability targets.

The average train age in Sydney is from the seventies, none of the flashy swanky new trains you get in Glasgow these days!

Here's the best bit because they reduced the number and speed of the trains, the trains actually go so slow that in some cases you get pedestrians overtaking the trains he he.

Believe me ha ving lived in Helensburgh and caught the train into Glasgow until the ripe age of 24 and having lived in Sydney for the last five years the grass is definitely greener in public transport term in Glasgow than it is here

[GlasgowMan]

Seems so far this all seems to be about the GARL but like i said above about Virgin starting flights next year.

Looks like they will start 6 flights a week with Boeing 747-400 aircraft (Jumbo Jet) operating Manchester-Glasgow-Orlando-Glasgow-Manchester.

Other rumours regarding more new routes are on my site in the news area.

[Wilforbes]

Originally Posted by The Boy David

… in my opinion, surely a rail link of some sorts is better than no rail link at all?

David,

Its hard to argue against that thinking but Gorgu tells it like it is in Sydney for example. Nice new shiny rail link goes bust just after opening. And it could happen here; but like every other mess our politicians create they will just cover it up with more money.

My gripe is not that there should not be a rail link to the airport – I have lobbied for years for one. We should not let such important infrastructure projects into the hands of those with no cost conscience. In fact if we had put the project out to a competition, I’d bet we’d be building it by now – at the right price.

Gorgu’s example of people walking faster than the trains may not be as far fetched as it may seem. The SPT after spending £160m will not improve the travel time between Glasgow and Paisley (it stays at 10 mins); but, worse still, it will then take six minutes to get from Paisley to the Airport – maybe not quite walking pace but helluva slow. Why?

As GlasgowMan points out we are expecting increased business through our airport (do you think Virgin may just be influenced by Globespan, GlasgowMan?). If that is the case we should make sure our rail link and all other connections work to the best possible standards.

[GlasgowMan]

Virgin have been looking at Glasgow for years now, longer than FlyGlobespan have been in business.

The good news is that Virgins flights from Glasgow are confirmed and will start in June 2007. If bookings do well more flights and routes will be added as they are using this to test the Glasgow market. Just as Easyjet are with there new daily flights to Berlin that start tomorrow.

This year over 1million more seats are on offer from Glasgow airport than have ever been on offer before.


http://www.frequent-virgin.co.uk/Fre...ews/Monthly_Up...

Hot of the press....

Florida 2007 1st edition 11 May (for Jan - Dec07)

There are loads of fantastic brochure offers as usual; like FREE kids,
£60 off per couple to Orlando and £100 off per couple to Miami.....and that's just for starters!

Brand NEW for 2007 Virgin Holidays are increasing their regional flying
network. Introducing a weekly service direct from Glasgow to Orlando.
(23 June - 14 July & 06 - 13 Oct 2007). These flights are with
award-winning Virgin Atlantic.

[The Boy David]

Yeah Will I hear you - tricky situation, this.


GlasgowMan apologies, I completely forgot to reply earlier to your news, which is indeed excellent - Glasgow has been calling out for a route like this for some time now

[GlasgowMan]

Flights from Scotland to Brazil and Costa Rica are planned by the first British airline to order a revolutionary new long-haul aircraft.
First Choice Airways told The Scotsman that the Boeing 787 Dreamliner will make direct links from Glasgow to Central and South America viable when it enters service in 2009.

Flyglobespan also plans to buy the planes for Scottish flights to South Africa and Australia, but there is now a waiting list until 2012.
Boeing said the aircraft, which will have 210-420 seats, burn up to 30 per cent less fuel and cause 60 per cent less noise than similar-sized planes. They can fly as far and as fast as most larger aircraft.

The 787 is the first passenger jet to be built of carbon-based materials, enabling Boeing to create a more spacious cabin with larger windows and improved air pressure, which it said would reduce passenger fatigue.
Chris Browne, the managing director of First Choice, which currently flies as far as Florida and Mexico from Glasgow, said the 787 would enable it to fly further, faster and cheaper. She said: "The aircraft could give us a competitive edge, since people spend two days of their holidays in a plane."

Kenny Kemp, the author of Flight of the Titans, about the 787's battle against Airbus' A380 superjumbo, said the 787's extra comfort should help passengers cope with longer flights.
He said: "The Dreamliner is going to be an amazing plane, but it will be down to what the airlines put into them."

[Wilforbes]

Interesting piece GlasgowMan. Do you think the Dreamliner will be used in the domestic market or will it always be long haul? If it is only to be long haul, could it boost Glasgow’s position as a transatlantic port; drawing from north England and so on?

No matter how big the planes become, I’ll wager a bet that you will still be unable to get your table down on a Thomas Cook Airlines flight.

[The Boy David]

The Dreamliner will be awesome. As an aeronautical engineer (well, nearly... and perhaps maybe not if tomorrow goes pear shaped..) I can assure you that this plane is top notch stuff.

Why? I'll explain very breifly tomorrow how it will benifit Glasgow and Scotland when it's not 12.22 in the morning.

[GlasgowMan]

"Interesting piece GlasgowMan. Do you think the Dreamliner will be used in the domestic market or will it always be long haul?"

I think it will only be long haul. The aircraft is around the same size as the Boeing 767, which is the most used aircraft across the Atlantic (from all airports not just GLA).

"If it is only to be long haul, could it boost Glasgow’s position as a transatlantic port; drawing from north England and so on?"

GLA already draws allot of passengers from England, in-fact a piece in a Newcastle paper a while ago shows that people from Newcastle prefer to use Glasgow over Manchester.

The aircraft will contently help bring more new long haul flights to GLA and hopefully upgrade some of the routes to year round that are currently only offered in the summer.

“No matter how big the planes become, I’ll wager a bet that you will still be unable to get your table down on a Thomas Cook Airlines flight.”

Indeed it will quality of the aircraft that passengers will be most interested in - leg room etc will always depend on the airline. I’m guessing you flew with Thomas Cook on a charter flight? Just that since last May they have been operating daily scheduled flights from Glasgow to Toronto with I think 34” leg room.

[The Boy David]

Right.

The dreamliner is an extremely impressive piece of kit. In answer to your question, Wilforbes, if the demand was there for ~250 seat domestic flights in the UK, the shortened version of the Dreamliner (787-9 I think) is more than capable of providing this. Figures show that it will still be 10-15% more efficient than any short-haul/domestic airliner in operation today.

However, the demand for this amount of seats is rare, especially for Glasgow. Edinburgh-London at peak times could warrant using a 787 though.


The whole idea behind the 787 is that it cuts out the middle-man, eg the Heathrow/CDG/Alanta/O'Hare/Frankfurt style hubs that long haul flights depend on these days.

If the demand is present, airlines can use the 787 for flights from provincial airports to almost anywhere in the world, thanks to the vast range and a 30% cut in current day operating costs. So if the punters want to fly to the US from Glasgow, then instead of the usual jaunt down to Heathrow for most N.A. flights, they can go straight from Glasgow without a stop over.


Of course, this is a two way thing - anyone wanting to get to GLA in one flight can, if the demand is there, do it with relative ease and increased comfort: air-pressure is increased, space is increased and noise is decreased. Plus it flies about 50mph faster



So to conclude, the Dreamliner could really open a lot of doors for Glasgow, if the market is there to warrant it.

[GlasgowMan]

"If the demand is present, airlines can use the 787 for flights from provincial airports to almost anywhere in the world, thanks to the vast range and a 30% cut in current day operating costs. So if the punters want to fly to the US from Glasgow, then instead of the usual jaunt down to Heathrow for most N.A. flights, they can go straight from Glasgow without a stop over."

This is one of the reasons i set my website up. I was fed up with going into travel agents and hearing people talking about if they want to go anywhere from Scotland they must go via London. You can fly to ever destination in the world from Glasgow without stepping foot in London. Even if there is no direct flights i try to promote connecting flights after using an international flight from GLA, ie connect in Amsterdam, Copenhagen, Brussels, Dubai, Reykjavik, Philadelphia, Chicago etc.

[GlasgowMan]

Heres the 787 website

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/787family/index.html

[GlasgowMan]

THE number of passengers flying from Glasgow Airport to Egypt has more than trebled over the past year.
A record 5511 travellers flew to Sharm el Sheik last month, making it the fastest-growing international destination, against 1530 passengers holidaying in the Red Sea resort during April 2005.
Figures released today by airport operators BAA show a total of 655,413 passengers used Glasgow Airport last month, while the
number passing through Glasgow, Edinburgh and Aberdeen in April reached 1.6million.
A total of 20.3m passengers travelled through the three airports
in the 12 months to April, up 5% on last year.
Meanwhile, FlyGlobespan has announced it will launch its first transatlantic flight from Glasgow to Orlando on June 2.

Publication date 09/05/06 THE number of passengers flying from Glasgow Airport to Egypt has more than trebled over the past year.
A record 5511 travellers flew to Sharm el Sheik last month, making it the fastest-growing international destination, against 1530 passengers holidaying in the Red Sea resort during April 2005.
Figures released today by airport operators BAA show a total of 655,413 passengers used Glasgow Airport last month, while the
number passing through Glasgow, Edinburgh and Aberdeen in April reached 1.6million.
A total of 20.3m passengers travelled through the three airports
in the 12 months to April, up 5% on last year.
Meanwhile, FlyGlobespan has announced it will launch its first transatlantic flight from Glasgow to Orlando on June 2.

Still more flights to take off this year from Glasgow to Egypt so this growth looks like it will get even stronger.

[Boards]

I see Edinburghs got a direct service to Atlanta - thats certainly one in the eye for Glasgow.