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Old August 11th, 2005, 09:17 AM   #41
djm19
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I dunno...this map shows and awful lot of trains and not a single tram (at least not recognized in the key)

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Old August 11th, 2005, 02:16 PM   #42
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It says 1000 miles of trolley lines.
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Old August 11th, 2005, 04:05 PM   #43
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So...

So, which had or had the largest or the most extensive network that ever existed or exists? Is it Tokyo???
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Old August 11th, 2005, 06:47 PM   #44
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Either London or Tokyo and thats today.
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Old August 11th, 2005, 11:18 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randwicked
It says 1000 miles of trolley lines.

Heres a picture of los angeles's red car trolleys:



They ran on the many rail LINES

As you can see in the key, they were either single track, double track, or 4 tracks
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Old August 12th, 2005, 03:09 AM   #46
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How many of those L.A. streetcar lines are still in use today?
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Old August 12th, 2005, 08:35 AM   #47
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LA and Lima
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Old August 12th, 2005, 09:33 AM   #48
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^ Around the same time, London has around 345 route miles of Trams, with 2600 trains. Route miles are a different measurement to track miles (which the L.A. is based on). With almost all of the lines in London being at least double track, and some wider, this accounted for some 700 track miles.

Still smaller than L.A's (London was not so sprawled as L.A) but then London still had the Underground, and the enormous suburban overground lines as well.

It was certainly larger than L.A. in total rail.

But I have to admit, that tram network in LA is massive! Although, it must have been an terribly long journey from Riverside to the city.
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Old August 12th, 2005, 09:33 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djm19
I dunno...this map shows and awful lot of trains and not a single tram (at least not recognized in the key)

Brooklyn and Queens BMT trolley's in 1924.
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Old August 12th, 2005, 10:37 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by addisonwesley
How many of those L.A. streetcar lines are still in use today?
Well, pretty much none. They paved over some, put freeways on others. But they did keep some right-of-ways and I think some of LA's modern day light rail takes advantage of those, with more still. In terms of actual Red Cars still used, they have opened a San Pedro line using them by the waterfront. (very small line though).

They also are going to make a Red Car loop in downtown LA.
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Old August 12th, 2005, 10:47 AM   #51
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Many of these American tram lines are incredibly impressive, it's so sad that they were demolished.

There were obvious reasons why, at the time the technology was not great and buses were a more flexible option (which is why London also got rid of theirs. In fact, it was the replacement of the trams that created the famous routemaster double decker buses).

But still, if all these cities had kept them in place, then by the 1970's the technology would have caught up.
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Old August 12th, 2005, 11:00 AM   #52
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Judging from some other posts I've read, trams used to do quite poorly on hills, and I know that the old W class trams in Melbourne are slow and noisy and now only stay on the tourist lines - after installing pantographs and replacing the braking systems, which were never really good.
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Old August 12th, 2005, 11:12 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by invincible
Judging from some other posts I've read, trams used to do quite poorly on hills, and I know that the old W class trams in Melbourne are slow and noisy and now only stay on the tourist lines - after installing pantographs and replacing the braking systems, which were never really good.
Most trams do, that's correct. One of the few exceptions is the amazing Lisbon trams which are still in service today. These great little trams wind up and down the narrow streets and steep hills on either side of the city center. They are probably the most facinating trams to be on, especially in summer when the windows are wide open. You are so close to the buildings sometimes you can stick your hands out and touch them.

But usually they rely on funicular's for the really steep inclines.



Funny how this thread has moved from "worst" big city transit systems, to showing some great ones from past and present... sorry for helping to take this off topic.
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Old August 12th, 2005, 02:52 PM   #54
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London has the worst transit system for a big city.
London Underground:

- Delays
- Signal failures
- Derailments!
- Expensive
- Overcrowded
- Dirty
- Old trains

Definitely not the transport that London deserves.
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Old August 12th, 2005, 03:05 PM   #55
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london? and paris metro

- Signal failures
- Overcrowded
- Dirty
- Old trains (not all line. The ligne 1 ligne 7bis.ligne 14. ligne A and ligne E trains are recent)
- Information is deficiens
- very compliqued
- pickpocket,beggars
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Old August 12th, 2005, 03:05 PM   #56
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^ I disagree that it's the worst transit system for a big city.

There are loads of larger cities with smaller transit systems. London is certainly far better today than L.A. and of cause there are plenty of Developing nations with giant cities that have little or far worse public transport.

London has the 2nd largest rail network outside of Tokyo. It has the largest bus network in the world. Itís underground network and trains are iconic and world famous, as are itís double decker buses.

Londonís underground may have delayís and issues, but so do all large and especially old networks. Londonís underground is the longest and oldest in the world. Because of itís age, it will no doubt have problems. However, it is hardly dirty and rundown as you suggest. Almost all the central London stations have been wonderfully renovated, there are plenty of spectacular modern stations as well. There are some older stations in the suburbs that need renovations, but they are hardly in terrible state.

All of Londonís mainline stations as far as I know have had extensive renovations, some to spectacular results. There are many overground stations that could do with a paint job, but most that I see are in pretty good shape.

As for dirty, I remember NYís subway being much more dirty, and even in glamorous Barcelona, one of their largest central city stations, Passiag de Gracia is in far worse shape than anything in central London.

To claim Londonís network is one of the worst of all major cities is simply absurd. There certainly are parts that needs work, but it far from bad.

It is expensive though compared to many other networks. Not so much in central London when compared to other parts of Northern or Central Europe (equating to similar distances) but when traveling longer distances, especially in the metro it can be quite dear.
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Old August 12th, 2005, 04:17 PM   #57
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Maybe Trondheim? Which got the northest tram line in the world? In the past there was lots of tram lines, now there is only one left. Some say that privacy companies destroys, but GrŚkallbanen as it is called is going better and better:

Trondheim got about 150 000 citicens.

[IMG]http://pix.*******/26/26216-IMG_8780.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://pix.*******/26/26217-IMG_8786.jpg[/IMG]
Here is one of the wagons from the past.

[IMG]http://pix.*******/24/24908-IMG_8007_Small.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://pix.*******/24/24159-DSCN0367.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://pix.*******/24/24161-DSCN0371.jpg[/IMG]
One of the newer wagons.

[IMG]http://pix.*******/22/22618-IMG_7270_Small.jpg[/IMG]
Most of the track is singletrack, but in the center, it got doubletracks.

[IMG]http://pix.*******/20/20560-92_lian.jpg[/IMG]
The tram line goes out into the woods. Very special for a tram line

[IMG]http://pix.*******/23/i23675-Singsakerlinjen_-_vogn_20_-_1968.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://pix.*******/23/i23676-Graakalbanen_nr_3_paa_Lian_1968.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://pix.*******/23/i23677-Kyvannet_1978.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://pix.*******/23/23634-DSCN0149.jpg[/IMG]
Trondheim had a huge tram network, but as many other cities. It started to shrink, as we as humans thought of cars as the best way to go arround. Cars pollute and I hope that GrŚkallbanen someday will be nice. But for now, its just pretty sad thing.
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Old August 12th, 2005, 05:57 PM   #58
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I guess that map really shouldn't be used in an argument then. Perhaps a, er - new one.
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Old August 14th, 2005, 06:54 AM   #59
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Those maps of tram lines in the greater LA area in 1928 seem a little strange to me. First, they seem to go where they would be needed in 2005, not in 1928. There are a lot of lines in Orange County and the San Fernando Valley, which in 1928 were still farmland!! I'm not saying that those maps are made up, but it seems strange.

I'm not using a movie as a reference, but watch the movie Chinatown with Jack Nicholson. That was the main plot in the movie. John Huston (i.e., Mulholland) was trying to dry out the San Fernando Valley so that the farmers would leave and he could buy the property very cheaply to build houses. This was taking place in the 1920's.

By the way, I learned all the history I need to know from movies!!
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Old August 14th, 2005, 07:02 AM   #60
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Sorry, but NOTHING in the western world even comes close to Detroit.
No subways, LRT, trams, commuter rail, bus rapid transit..........absolutly nothing in a metro area of nearly 5 million.
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