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New 55 storey hotel for Yorkville

6K views 57 replies 22 participants last post by  Mr Man 
#1 ·
#2 ·
Let's see, now we have Trump, Ritz, the Hazelton, and Four Seasons II planned for the high end hotel market, and Stinson and Maple Leaf Square planned for the mid-range market. Plus a couple of small boutique hotels in the works for College and Queen. That's a lot of new beds for an industry struggling to get back on its feet. The Hazelton is already under construction, and Trump will likely start by early next year. As for the rest, I have my doubts.
 
#3 ·
There is no way that 55 stories at that location will be approved.

Expect MAJOR changes to this project before it gets off the drawing board into sales mode.

55s for a hotel would be at least 650 - 700 feet - I think anything even over 400 or 450 feet would be a stretch for that location.
 
#6 ·
BTW: http://www.yorkvilleresidences.com/

Article copied from billy corgan on UT:

Menkes to Develop a New Four Seasons Hotel and Private Residences in Toronto's Yorkville

Four Seasons, the Standard Bearer of Quality in the City to Further Define Yorkville as Epicentre of Affluence and Style

TORONTO, July 25 /CNW/ - Bay-Yorkville Developments Ltd., a joint venture between Menkes Developments and Lifetime Homes, both of Toronto and Halcyon Ventures of Boston, announced today that it has recently signed an agreement in principle with Kingdom Hotels to pursue the development of a new 265-room luxury hotel.

Four Seasons Hotels and Resorts has agreed to operate the hotel, which is one component of a mixed-use development to include Four Seasons branded and serviced condominiums and high-end retail. Owners of the Four Seasons residences will have access to all hotel services and amenities, including unparalleled dining, a pool, spa and health club facilities, and banqueting and conference facilities. The total value of the project is $325 million and is expected to create about 1,600 construction jobs in the
city.
Located in Toronto's exclusive Yorkville district, at the northeast corner of Bay Street and Yorkville Avenue, the new mixed-use development is just a few blocks from the current Four Seasons Hotel Toronto. The project will be co-developed by Menkes Developments and Lifetime Homes.
"Four Seasons has a long track record of managing exceptional mixed-use hotel-condominium developments around the world," said Murray Menkes of Menkes
Developments. "Given the landmark location and prestigious nature of this site, we feel this represents an unparalleled opportunity to build a new Four Seasons in Toronto, and to establish a new benchmark for luxury condominium
living in the city. In recent years this type of mixed-use development has become the cornerstone of some of the world's most desirable urban neighbourhoods, including Four Seasons Residences in San Francisco, Miami,
Hong Kong, and Moscow, and we believe the time is ideal to bring this world class standard to Toronto."
"Yorkville is quickly becoming one of North America's most vibrant, exclusive residential and hotel locations," said Kyle Rae, Toronto City Councillor, Toronto Centre-Rosedale. "Recently Condé Nast Traveler magazine
described the opening of the first Four Seasons Hotel Toronto in 1978 as the 'catalyst for a new Yorkville.' The new Four Seasons hotel and residences will have a similar effect, anchoring the next generation of Yorkville that will
extend beyond Bay to Yonge Street."
"Toronto now appeals to an ever-growing group of travelers and residential buyers who want the very best." said Isadore Sharp, Founder, Chairman and CEO, Four Seasons Hotels and Resorts. "Looking ahead, there is a
unique opportunity to serve those needs with a hotel and residential experience which will be second to none. We are delighted to be working with Bay-Yorkville Developments and Kingdom Hotels on this exciting new project."
Planning approval applications are currently underway for the project. A sales presentation centre for the condominium residences is scheduled to open in early 2006. Construction is expected to begin by the end of 2006, with project completion slated for the beginning of 2009. Further details on the project can be found at www.yorkvilleresidences.com.
Four Seasons continues to manage its award-winning Toronto hotel, at Avenue Road and Yorkville Avenue. Home to Truffles, the city's only AAA-rated Five-Diamond restaurant and Avenue, one of Toronto's top bar and dining
venues, the Hotel will continue to be a draw for sophisticated visitors to the city as well as local patrons.
 
#7 ·
Copied from the site:

Four Seasons Hotel Toronto has been the icon of life en vogue in the city for more than 25 years. Now, along with the development of a new luxury hotel in the Yorkville neighbourhood, Four Seasons is introducing its internationally renowned collection of private residences to Toronto.

These exquisitely designed condominiums will range in size to over 5,000 sq. ft. and will be accessed from a private courtyard to an opulent lobby with 24 hour Concierge service and private elevator access. Of course, residents will also enjoy Four Seasons services and amenities including sumptuous restaurants and bars, valet parking, in-room dining and housekeeping service as well as an extraordinary Spa and Fitness Centre on the seventh floor. This is the Four Seasons lifestyle.

 
#8 ·
DRTO said:
Let's see, now we have Trump, Ritz, the Hazelton, and Four Seasons II planned for the high end hotel market, and Stinson and Maple Leaf Square planned for the mid-range market. Plus a couple of small boutique hotels in the works for College and Queen. That's a lot of new beds for an industry struggling to get back on its feet. The Hazelton is already under construction, and Trump will likely start by early next year. As for the rest, I have my doubts.
Don't forget the NIMBY's of Yorkville. They went crazy over 100 Yorkville/Bellair which was only 18s, imagine what would happen if this is to be built. :bash:
 
#10 ·
I don't see how this will be approved. I'm not too familiar with the location, but isn't that the heart of Yorkville?

Anyway, I'm usually very optimistic on these things but how many new hotel rooms can the city support?

Trump 70
Ritz 50ish
Hazelton (?)
Four Seasons II 55
Stinson's 1 King West 51
Stinson's Sapphire 90
Maple Leaf Square 45ish

trumptoronto?
 
#11 ·
Mr Man said:
I don't see how this will be approved. I'm not too familiar with the location, but isn't that the heart of Yorkville?

Anyway, I'm usually very optimistic on these things but how many new hotel rooms can the city support?

Trump 70
Ritz 50ish
Hazelton (?)
Four Seasons II 55
Stinson's 1 King West 51
Stinson's Sapphire 90
Maple Leaf Square 45ish

trumptoronto?
I think these hotel investors are betting on a few things increasing Toronto's draw:

1. world class opera house (acoustically)
2. expanded museum with showy architecture
3. expanded art gallery with world's best known architect
4. Lord of the Rings
5. slowly improving waterfront
6. the expansion and completion of the Distillery District
7. the growing popularity of the TIFF
8. the completion of Dundas Square (our Times Square), including a music hall of fame
9. possible addition of an aquarium
10. second tier projects like the expansion of the Ceramics museum, RCOM, ballet school, possibly a planetarium
11. the general gentrification of the city's core, ie. King, Queen and College increases upscale dining and shopping options

Granted, some of these draws will not appeal to the 4 and 5 star hotel patrons, but Sapphire and Maple Leaf Square are aiming more at the mid-market.
 
#13 ·
Mr Man,

Trump 70
Ritz 50ish
Hazelton (?)
Four Seasons II 55
Stinson's 1 King West 51
Stinson's Sapphire 90
Maple Leaf Square 45ish
Ritz is 56, Hazelton is 8 I think

Maple Leaf Square... the condos are 45 - The hotel is a small component of approx 100 rooms in a couple of floors of the podium.

But I agree this list of future hotels is very ambitious.
 
#14 ·
Mr Man said:
I don't see how this will be approved. I'm not too familiar with the location, but isn't that the heart of Yorkville?

Anyway, I'm usually very optimistic on these things but how many new hotel rooms can the city support?

Trump 70
Ritz 50ish
Hazelton (?)
Four Seasons II 55
Stinson's 1 King West 51
Stinson's Sapphire 90
Maple Leaf Square 45ish

trumptoronto?
Then again, look at it this way: 1 King West is sold out, Trump's hotels have sold well, the Hazelton is already under construction, the Ritz can rely on its international reputation, and so can the Four Seasons to some extent, plus as mentioned, Maple Leaf Square doesn't have too many hotel rooms. That leaves Sapphire, which has been a doubtful project from day 1.
 
#17 · (Edited)
Mike in TO said:
Mr Man,



Ritz is 56, Hazelton is 8 I think

Maple Leaf Square... the condos are 45 - The hotel is a small component of approx 100 rooms in a couple of floors of the podium.

But I agree this list of future hotels is very ambitious.
Thanks.

DRTO said:
Then again, look at it this way: 1 King West is sold out, Trump's hotels have sold well, the Hazelton is already under construction, the Ritz can rely on its international reputation, and so can the Four Seasons to some extent, plus as mentioned, Maple Leaf Square doesn't have too many hotel rooms. That leaves Sapphire, which has been a doubtful project from day 1.
If they can all be built, the better! I have no doubt that all of them have the potential of getting built. Sapphire may be iffy, but I'll give Stinson the benefit of the doubt. So let's say they all get built and hit the market.Where I have serious doubts is viability. Can all of them being financially viable to investors who bought the hotel suites?

We may not have seen formal hotels being announced in the past, but condo projects such as the Skyline International must be stealing business away from traditional hotels. And there are a lot of condos on the market already that act as short-stay rentals, more or less a hotel.

If they all get built, it will be great for the city regardless of whether the investors make money or not. So this turns the spotlight on the investors. They must have similar concerns about purchasing a hotel suite knowing the full gult that will be hitting the market soon. Although all of them have the potential of being built, I wonder how many will actually be getting built. Plus I'm sure the NIMBYs will have a field day with a 55-storey hotel in the heart of Yorkville. I'm probably the biggest height enthusiast here, but even I think this one may be a little too much given the location.

Anyone have any pictures of the site?
 
#18 ·
Mr Man said:
Thanks.



If they can all be built, the better! I have no doubt that all of them have the potential of getting built. Sapphire may be iffy, but I'll give Stinson the benefit of the doubt. So let's say they all get built and hit the market.Where I have serious doubts is viability. Can all of them being financially viable to investors who bought the hotel suites?

We may not have seen formal hotels being announced in the past, but condo projects such as the Skyline International must be stealing business away from traditional hotels. And there are a lot of condos on the market already that act as short-stay rentals, more or less a hotel.

If they all get built, it will be great for the city regardless of whether the investors make money or not. So this turns the spotlight on the investors. They must have similar concerns about purchasing a hotel suite knowing the full gult that will be hitting the market soon. Although all of them have the potential of being built, I wonder how many will actually be getting built. Plus I'm sure the NIMBYs will have a field day with a 55-storey hotel in the heart of Yorkville. I'm probably the biggest height enthusiast here, but even I think this one may be a little too much given the location.

Anyone have any pictures of the site?
The site is a parking lot. It's very unsightly, and cheapens the look of Yorkville. I think 55 storeys so close to the Yonge-Bloor cluster of highrises isn't really that much of a stretch. 18 Yorkville is just east of there at 36 storeys. Maybe the hotel will get a few floors knocked off of it, but I think the city will approve the building with at least 40 floors. The city could use the tax revenue. Just a hunch.
 
#19 · (Edited)
"but condo projects such as the Skyline International must be stealing business away from traditional hotels."

Skyline Cosmopolitan is not a condo


"Anyway, I'm usually very optimistic on these things but how many new hotel rooms can the city support?

Trump - 216
Ritz - 267
Hazelton - 80
Four Seasons II - 380
Stinson's 1 King West - ~550
Stinson's Sapphire -~1100
Maple Leaf Square -~150
Adelaide Hotel -~30




That's a lot of hotel rooms to go on top of those recently opened
 
#21 ·
Mike in TO said:
There is no way that 55 stories at that location will be approved.

Expect MAJOR changes to this project before it gets off the drawing board into sales mode.

55s for a hotel would be at least 650 - 700 feet - I think anything even over 400 or 450 feet would be a stretch for that location.

But why not? This is not Suburbia! It's Toronto... mini New York! What the hell is wrong with the frickin' NIMBIES?!?!?!
 
#22 ·
DRTO said:
The city could use the tax revenue. Just a hunch.
You would think that would be the case, but the city does some very strange things sometimes. For example, Trump wanted 71-storeys, but the city would only approve 70. The city turned away an opportunity to add over $150,000 annually to revenues. Why?
 
#26 ·
mckarisma said:
Thats interesting though, why would Minto be allowed at Y&E, which isn't nearly as built up as Yorkville be allowed, yet they wouldn't allow this at Yorkville? Sorry im just confused at the logic I think. please explain...
Well its pretty obvious that the people of Yorkville want everything to be relatively short so it fits the Victorian scale so nothing dwarfs over them. And they don't seem to want too many people moving into Yorkville, that's why many condos are so controversial in YE like Hazelton, and 100 Y/B.

Eglinton and Yonge already has 2 twins, one of them being at 400 ft. And Y and E already has that downtown feel in Uptown TO with the stretch of Yonge being quite dense so it doesn't feel too out of place. But Minto had problems with the local NIMBY's and was originally proposed to be taller.
 
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