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Old August 4th, 2005, 04:07 PM   #301
Taxidermista
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdtj
^While you are at it.. Could you Fix this one also...

I did a rough version of that with the right size:

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Old August 4th, 2005, 04:13 PM   #302
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taxidermista
I did a rough version of that with the right size:


I think you got the right size.
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Old August 4th, 2005, 04:32 PM   #303
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I love the design, but I hope it wont get boring when Calatrave designs more of these towers....
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Old August 4th, 2005, 04:51 PM   #304
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IT LOOKS COOL
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Old August 4th, 2005, 10:52 PM   #305
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I went to a website called Chicagoarchitecture.info, and I was reading the comments that people posted. Only 2 of the posters didn't like Fordham Spire, but one guy really went on a Chicago bashing campaign. Below is what he said....

Nicholas Gregoris
Wednesday, August 3rd, 2005 @ 2:48am
My father was born and raised in New York City. My mother was born and raised in Chicago. And I thank God that I was born and raised in the heart of New York City, in the Borough of Manhattan,just nine blocks north of the WTC site. Once again, Chicago shows that it has no class and no respect, just a rightlly deserved inferiority complex. In the early 1970s Chicago deliberately built the Sears Tower in order to surpass the Twin Towers of New York. New York takes the worst hit on 9/11 --I almost lost my father and my younger sister on 9/11--and even before it has a chance to reconstruct its even more famous skyline,Chicago seeks to put a damper on the proposed Freedom Tower that is meant to be a symbol not just for New York City but for the entire nation and the free, civilized world redefined after 9/11. Granted, I must admit that despite the recent changes to the master plan that the Freedom Tower still falls short of its high potential. The news about the Fordham Spire has only convinced me that over the course of the next five to ten years that the current plans for Ground Zero's Freedom Tower need to be revised. I still believe that New York deserves to replace its Twin Towers with two main towers and not just a single main tower. I have never quite understood the rationale behind Governor Pataki and Mayor Bloomberg's decision for a single tower and not a more esthetically appealing redesign of the old Twin Towers. After all that has been done thus far to alter Mr. Libeskind's original master plan, is it too far fetched to imagine that nothing is set in stone, that the Freedom Tower could be redesigned even more appropriately as a timely response to this subtle slap from the Windy City? For argument's sake, does the Freedom Tower have to be 1776 feet? Could it not be 2001 feet to commemorate the actual year in which the 9/11 tragedy took place? Or could the designers of the Freedom Tower think outside of the box a little and perhaps strive for nearly 3,000 feet as a way of paying tribute to all those people who perished on 9/11? Chicago is the Second City, not the First. In my experience, having lived in Europe for almost eight years and in the United States for twenty-five years, no one looks seriously to Chicago, with or without its mediocre skyline, as the cosmopolitan capital of the United States. The late great Pope John Paul II once referred to New York City (and not to Chicago) as "the Capital of the World." In my opinion, Chicago will always remain a big Midwestern town trying, grasping in vain to outdo the Big Apple in the Empire State. I sincerely hope that this project fails. However, even if it does succeed I hope that the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, Mr. Trump or some other more ambitious New York architects and real estate big shots, will have enough pride and patience to out-fight, out-fox Chicago for an even more beautiful, "breath-taking" and taller building. I think that after what happened on 9/11 that the City of New York, and not the City of Chicago, nor any other North American City for that matter, deserves the distinction of having the tallest building in the country, perhaps the world, in its downtown. Building skycrapers for the sake of fame and fortune only is not what I'm trying to get at. Does private enterprise always have to take a back seat to national interests such as 9/11? As for Mr.Calatrava (selected for the transportation hub at New WTC), did he ever think about how he is unwittingly undermining the construction of the World Trade Center Site by participating in this project? Probably not! There is no loyalty among men who worship the God of mammon and could care less about the symbolic value of their actions for the greater good.



What do you guys think about these words? I was quite disappointed...
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Old August 4th, 2005, 11:20 PM   #306
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he seems patriotic, and his words are not out of stupidity.. just hes a bit straightforward
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Old August 5th, 2005, 04:09 AM   #307
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I think he's the one with an inferiority complex! ha! and after all, Chicago did build the world's first and tallest skyscraper, so why shouldn't Chicago be a skyscraper capital?
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Old August 5th, 2005, 04:33 AM   #308
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Quote:
The news about the Fordham Spire has only convinced me that over the course of the next five to ten years the current plans for Ground Zero's Freedom Tower need to be revised. I still believe that New York deserves to replace its Twin Towers with two main towers and not just a single main tower.
Quote:
I hope that the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, Mr. Trump or some other more ambitious New York architects and real estate big shots, will have enough pride and patience to out-fight, out-fox Chicago for an even more beautiful, "breath-taking" and taller building

He's admitting himself that the Fordham Spire can push New York to come with something more daring and taller than the Freedom Tower....so what is the problem ? He should thank Chicago for stimulating and challenging the New York developers, so they might want to create something even more ambitious...
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Old August 5th, 2005, 06:39 AM   #309
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BVictor, I don't know why you were disapointed in one overly sensitive new yorker's opinion. He knows New York never has and never will compete with Chicago when it comes to tall skyscrapers. As it stands today, 4 of America's 5 tallest towers are in Chicago. And in five years, 6 of America's tallest 8 towers will reside in Chitown. This new yorker can't see past his ego to realize Chicago has not only a better park than New York, but a better skyline as well.

Here is that envious new yorker:

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Old August 5th, 2005, 07:03 AM   #310
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Just consider him a New Yokel.
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Old August 5th, 2005, 07:55 AM   #311
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I quit considering anything he was saying after I read that he thinks Chicago has a mediocre skyline. He loves his city but he doesnt know what he is talking about.
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Old August 5th, 2005, 08:05 AM   #312
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I still say that this thing is going the way of 7 South Dearborn, rock star architect or not.

The high end in Chicago ain't high enough or broad enough to make this thing profitable. There are no 15 million dollar condos here. This ain't New York.


And as for the guy who a couple of pages back said that using Lakeshore East or the South Loop means I don't know what I'm talking about. Well, I'm talking about a glut at all levels.

And how 'bout this: The Pinnacle (Carley's monstrosity off Mich Ave) is still trying to sell its HIGH end units...the most expensive ones. And you can't beat the Pinnacle's location.

Right now there are thousands of empty units of all stripes between the South Loop and Division. And hundreds more coming on line, and yes, many of them are competitors for the high end market here.

And the Mayor likes it? He'll like anything that diverts attention from his growing problems.

Like Miglin Beitler in 92, I fear this guy's coming to the mega high-rise party a couple of years too late.

As I said before, I love this building and think it'd be a great sculptural addition to a skyline I cherish every single day.

I'm just not gonna get excited because a middling developer got a famous architect to give him some cool drawings and a nice model. There've been too many examples of developers with big ideas handing the deed to their properties back to the bank.

When steel rises, I'll get excited.
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Old August 5th, 2005, 09:58 AM   #313
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I see the kind of progress Chicago and Toronto are making and My heart Aches for New York,

Dont get me wrong i'm a Torontonian by birth and have little to do with the big apple but as a skyscraper fan it just hurts that the city that brought us Chrysler and ESB back in the 30's has little to show for in the past 70 years barring the WTC obviously but still this city New York has to reclaim its throne
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Old August 5th, 2005, 12:25 PM   #314
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Quote:
Originally Posted by *UofT*
I see the kind of progress Chicago and Toronto are making and My heart Aches for New York,

Dont get me wrong i'm a Torontonian by birth and have little to do with the big apple but as a skyscraper fan it just hurts that the city that brought us Chrysler and ESB back in the 30's has little to show for in the past 70 years barring the WTC obviously but still this city New York has to reclaim its throne
Reclaim its' throne as what? Second to Chicago's great monsters I presume. Because as we all know Chicago builds the taller buildings. New York only has masses of skyscrapers similar to Tokyo because their population is over 3x that of Chicago, yet Chicago has more impressive skyscrapers where Tokyo and the NYC just have a countless amount of mediocre to crappy 20-40 storey buildings.
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Old August 5th, 2005, 12:45 PM   #315
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Another twistet tower by Calatrava...
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Old August 5th, 2005, 05:34 PM   #316
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Alderman objects to size of spire

August 5, 2005

BY DAVID ROEDER Business Reporter

Sounding the first official note of skepticism about a proposed 110-story building on the lakefront, Ald. Burton Natarus (42nd) said Thursday the project may be too huge for its location.

Natarus said he likes the design by celebrity architect Santiago Calatrava but isn't sure the site, a hard-to-access lot on the 400 block of East North Water Street, can handle the traffic and population the combined condominium and hotel tower would bring.

"Maybe this is the kind of building that should be built elsewhere," Natarus said. While praising the twisting effect of Calatrava's design, Natarus said his concern is its impact on the street.

"Down below, that's where the problems could be. We'll have to look at it," he said. The support of downtown's alderman will be crucial if Christopher Carley, the developer, is to get the zoning change he'd need.

The building was unveiled last week to a positive review from City Hall's chief architecture critic, Mayor Daley. "I'm excited about it. I'm glad they made a presentation like that for Chicago," Daley said in response to the proposal.

Some read his reaction as instructions to city planners to back the zoning change. The law firm of Daley & George, which includes Daley's brother Michael, is representing the project.

But Natarus said the project will get a thorough review. "People say it's a done deal. It's not a done deal at all," he said.

Natarus acknowledged he has heard from constituents -- would-be neighbors of the tower who have voiced displeasure.

He has recently used his influence to block a proposed high-rise next to Fourth Presbyterian Church at Michigan and Delaware.

Carley noted that the three major developments he's presented to the city all have been downsized after lengthy reviews. Asked if he expects the city to insist that the height of the Calatrava building be cut, Carley said, "I'd like to think that the downsizing would be for specific reasons and not categorical," such as merely to protect views from existing high-rises.

But Carley, chairman of Fordham Co., also has warned that excessive demands by the city might force his architect to withdraw over creative differences.

The building would be 1,458 feet to its rooftop, 8 feet taller than Sears Tower. A spire would bring the official height to about 2,000 feet.

Carley said a Web site devoted to the building has received 500 names of potential buyers, far more than he expected at this early stage of planning and marketing. Financing for what he estimates will be a $500 million project is under discussion, but lenders are unlikely to commit until the city bestows zoning approval.

"You don't know if they've got the money until they get the zoning," said Natarus, voicing his frustration with developers who get plans approved but then can't follow through.

Current zoning lets Carley build two shorter, blockish buildings on the property. Following that plan would create more density than a slender, tall structure, he said.
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Old August 5th, 2005, 06:11 PM   #317
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the tower looks very odd specially the top.
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Old August 6th, 2005, 09:21 AM   #318
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BVictor1
I went to a website called Chicagoarchitecture.info, and I was reading the comments that people posted. Only 2 of the posters didn't like Fordham Spire, but one guy really went on a Chicago bashing campaign. Below is what he said....

Nicholas Gregoris
Wednesday, August 3rd, 2005 @ 2:48am
My father was born and raised in New York City. My mother was born and raised in Chicago. And I thank God that I was born and raised in the heart of New York City, in the Borough of Manhattan,just nine blocks north of the WTC site. Once again, Chicago shows that it has no class and no respect, just a rightlly deserved inferiority complex. In the early 1970s Chicago deliberately built the Sears Tower in order to surpass the Twin Towers of New York. New York takes the worst hit on 9/11 --I almost lost my father and my younger sister on 9/11--and even before it has a chance to reconstruct its even more famous skyline,Chicago seeks to put a damper on the proposed Freedom Tower that is meant to be a symbol not just for New York City but for the entire nation and the free, civilized world redefined after 9/11. Granted, I must admit that despite the recent changes to the master plan that the Freedom Tower still falls short of its high potential. The news about the Fordham Spire has only convinced me that over the course of the next five to ten years that the current plans for Ground Zero's Freedom Tower need to be revised. I still believe that New York deserves to replace its Twin Towers with two main towers and not just a single main tower. I have never quite understood the rationale behind Governor Pataki and Mayor Bloomberg's decision for a single tower and not a more esthetically appealing redesign of the old Twin Towers. After all that has been done thus far to alter Mr. Libeskind's original master plan, is it too far fetched to imagine that nothing is set in stone, that the Freedom Tower could be redesigned even more appropriately as a timely response to this subtle slap from the Windy City? For argument's sake, does the Freedom Tower have to be 1776 feet? Could it not be 2001 feet to commemorate the actual year in which the 9/11 tragedy took place? Or could the designers of the Freedom Tower think outside of the box a little and perhaps strive for nearly 3,000 feet as a way of paying tribute to all those people who perished on 9/11? Chicago is the Second City, not the First. In my experience, having lived in Europe for almost eight years and in the United States for twenty-five years, no one looks seriously to Chicago, with or without its mediocre skyline, as the cosmopolitan capital of the United States. The late great Pope John Paul II once referred to New York City (and not to Chicago) as "the Capital of the World." In my opinion, Chicago will always remain a big Midwestern town trying, grasping in vain to outdo the Big Apple in the Empire State. I sincerely hope that this project fails. However, even if it does succeed I hope that the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, Mr. Trump or some other more ambitious New York architects and real estate big shots, will have enough pride and patience to out-fight, out-fox Chicago for an even more beautiful, "breath-taking" and taller building. I think that after what happened on 9/11 that the City of New York, and not the City of Chicago, nor any other North American City for that matter, deserves the distinction of having the tallest building in the country, perhaps the world, in its downtown. Building skycrapers for the sake of fame and fortune only is not what I'm trying to get at. Does private enterprise always have to take a back seat to national interests such as 9/11? As for Mr.Calatrava (selected for the transportation hub at New WTC), did he ever think about how he is unwittingly undermining the construction of the World Trade Center Site by participating in this project? Probably not! There is no loyalty among men who worship the God of mammon and could care less about the symbolic value of their actions for the greater good.



What do you guys think about these words? I was quite disappointed...
Another big duffer/ignorant who is new yorker lives in europe and all of sudden felt patriotic toward his beloved NYC talking out of ass and thought the "in 1970s Chicago deliberately built the Sears Tower in order to surpass the Twin Towers of New York." was no class and no respect to da big apple??? Do I need to mention that Chicago is no longer the mediocre skyline and typical midwestern city which he claimed to be, It is now a world city and stand firm on its ground. Reading his post is like drama build up, from sympathetic to anger, he started bashing on Chicago in the start and talking trash on how NYC should come up with projects that will undo Chicago ambition one way or another. LOL, Do you actually believe that NYC will even lightly consider building something around 2000ft in its downtown after the 9/11 nightmare? He is actually the one who is disrespecting all of these great projects that is happening in these two great cities recent years and his lousy claim should be strong ignore just like any other's opinion. Why should chicago always take the second place when the skyscraper name its birthplace here and architects around the wolrd ambitiously plotting their art works in this well planned out urban in his so called "no one look seriously to chicago" trash. I smell tons of jealousy coming out of his stinky since I see that he is continuing to be let down since the 1970s, cry babyish. My suggestion to you is don't bother what he is saying. Chicago will continue to strive for the WTBs or Tallest in NA with or without his approval... NYC will always have the 9/11 on the back of his head and CONTINUELY building taller than chicago is just out of question! So I say, GO CHICAGO, all go for the WTBs!

Last edited by ChicagoSkyline; August 6th, 2005 at 09:28 AM.
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Old August 6th, 2005, 11:01 PM   #319
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"Dont get me wrong i'm a Torontonian by birth and have little to do with the big apple but as a skyscraper fan it just hurts that the city that brought us Chrysler and ESB back in the 30's has little to show for in the past 70 years barring the WTC obviously but still this city New York has to reclaim its throne"

Are you kidding? New York is doing fine for itself. They've got a bigger boom than we do.
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Old August 8th, 2005, 04:27 AM   #320
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I just have a question about the financing. If the tower costs $500 M and there are 110 floors... that <in a back-of-the-envelope-type-of-way> equates to something like $4.5 M / floor on an averaged out basis. A quick search of my favorite chicago real estate site http://www.rubloff.com/index.html shows that there aren't too many condos above ~ $3 M. Are there any statistics about floor plate size / how many units can you put on a floor etc... at this point? I'm assuming the floor plates will be much larger than something like the Burj Dubai. I guess I'm just trying to figure out the cost/unit for feasibility.

BTW, love the addition to the skyline.
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