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Old July 27th, 2005, 09:11 AM   #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hydrogen
I hope this graphic helps.

I love how half of this diagram is "Chicago."
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Old July 27th, 2005, 12:21 PM   #162
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I don't see what the point is in arguing about the spire. It WILL be the tallest in America even if it didn't have the spire.

About the FAA thing are you sure it's set in stone that nobody can build about 2000ft? I thought it was just a matter of getting approval from the government.
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Old July 27th, 2005, 12:27 PM   #163
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^Well, Adrian Smith from SOM (who designed Trump) said tonight that 2000ft is the absolute limit in that area of Chicago under FAA regulations.
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Old July 27th, 2005, 12:34 PM   #164
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Chicago's era of supertall boom has finally revived. Now we can share our skyline with 4 different states,lol!

BTW, It is a really inspiring sculpture ambition came out of Calatrava. Its location is quite well thought out for its design, here is my take... where chicago river meets lake michigan, and that white current is so strong and all of the sudden creates this supertall white water twister that has finally recirculate the heart of true skyscrapers birthplace, therefore da chicago supertall boom is reviving again!

If Calatrava ever going to build a supertall that with spire scales in about 2000 ft. why not make the roof at the same level as sears tower's spire?
I am started to think that Frank Loyd Wright's The Illinois(1 mile high) might somehow be part of chicago skyline in the near future.

Last edited by ChicagoSkyline; July 27th, 2005 at 12:51 PM.
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Old July 27th, 2005, 12:39 PM   #165
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Not only is there a possible super-tall boom, but there are so many other projects going on right now. For a skyscraper lover, Chicago is such an exciting place to be. My mind continues to be blown every day.

For a run down on Chicago projects, check out this thread at SSP:
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...threadid=18467
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Old July 27th, 2005, 12:39 PM   #166
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It just came to my mind that the spire is almost as tall as Turning Torso. They could almost put a Turning Torso on top as spire.


What about this one from Napoli? I haven't heard about that? Anyone know anything about this proposal?
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Old July 27th, 2005, 12:55 PM   #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hydrogen
Not only is there a possible super-tall boom, but there are so many other projects going on right now. For a skyscraper lover, Chicago is such an exciting place to be. My mind continues to be blown every day.

For a run down on Chicago projects, check out this thread at SSP:
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show...threadid=18467
Thanks for the great info and the follow up, you are da best! Go Chicago
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Old July 27th, 2005, 02:16 PM   #168
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Calatrava spire faces some tall obstacles

July 27, 2005

BY DAVID ROEDER SUN-TIMES COLUMNIST


It would be Chicago's first metrosexual skyscraper, this Santiago Calatrava fantasia on the lakefront. One imagines the brawny Sears Tower and John Hancock Center staring with suspicion at the gaudy arrival for the skyline. Perhaps you saw the renderings in Tuesday's Sun-Times. Calatrava has done no small thing; he's provided a building that would be as bold and, OK, phallic as anything that's out there, yet given it silken grace.

The 115-story building looks like a drill bit adorned with the billowing movement of a Gypsy. All that's missing are giant earrings hanging from a couple of high balconies (and despite appearances, it has balconies) and ankle bracelets at the base.

It's a strange addition to the crowd, and for that reason I like it. But I doubt it will get built.

The obstacles to a building like this are always formidable. Financing that brings earth movers to the location depends on city approvals and pre-sales. The developer, Fordham Co. Chairman Christopher Carley, is working the market's most elite end, the wealthy buyers of second homes, and experts note that sales in the sector have flagged. The problems are apparent in Carley's other projects, such as the posh Fordham and Pinnacle buildings in Streeterville, where he resorted to fancy financial footwork to keep lenders happy.

For a developer, Carley is soft-spoken and unassuming. Yet the salesman in him kicks in when he's asked about the project and the alliance with Calatrava, a Spaniard renowned for such designs as the Athens Olympic Stadium and the Milwaukee Art Museum.

Starting with a site that enjoys rare prominence at the Chicago River and Lake Michigan, Carley figures the Calatrava name is his meal ticket. He believes people will pay a premium for the site "because it's a Calatrava,'' he said. And he notes that the relatively small volume of the building -- 920,000 square feet, only about 40 percent of what Donald Trump is building elsewhere on the river -- makes the financial hurdles smaller.

Its identity as the "nation's tallest building,'' Carley suggests, is almost an afterthought. He said his only marching orders to Calatrava were to make something "tall, slender, elegant and spectacular.'' The architect came back with a roofline about one Yao Ming higher than the Sears Tower roof, plus a spire that playfully soars heavenward. "I was taken aback,'' Carley said.

But the skepticism didn't last. Carley is enamored of his celebrity architect. He accepted Calatrava's argument that it needs to be that calculated height, that anything less destroys the aesthetics. He accepted it because, as Carley put it, he's "infatuated'' with Calatrava's work.

Plus, they have a financial bond. Carley hopes to charge buyers a premium. In return, he said he's paying Calatrava $30 a square foot, which would be about $27 million if the building is completed.

Carley might regret that he didn't rein him in. The site, on the 400 block of East Illinois, is near the center of everything, but is hard to access. This is part of the old Chicago Dock and Canal property that was fallow for years because the city soared over it along the elevated Michigan Avenue. Development didn't take off until the construction in the early 1980s of the Columbus Drive bridge.

Also, the surrounding neighbors can be powerful opposition. High-rise dwellers criticizing proposed high-rises are ripe for satire when their only concern is preserving their views. But it was just such political heat that so far has blocked a Streeterville condo tower near the Fourth Presbyterian Church at Michigan and Delaware.

Carley will discover that many Chicagoans won't care about the difference between Calatrava and calamari. In this project, the architect's ego outshines the developer's, and that can't be good for its prospects.
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Old July 27th, 2005, 02:37 PM   #169
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MY theory is this: the star wars theory.... Up till now the dark side has been taking residence in chicago, darth sears and the imperial hancock centre have dominated the skyline for a long time. Finally the light side is having an uprising with obi trump and now luke fordham trying to fight back for the skyline.

just an opinion
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Old July 27th, 2005, 02:54 PM   #170
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Wow, I think its a great design but damn thats a big spire - so much so that their actually calling this building Fordham SPIRE lol. Eclipsing Sears Tower by 2.5m to roof can't be a coincidence - but the good this is it'll prevent us arguing about which deserves to be taller

Vaidas has already drawn this for SSP. Check out the Chicago diagram at http://www.skyscraperpage.com/diagrams/?11911574
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Old July 27th, 2005, 03:08 PM   #171
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I don't think this Chicago Tribune article has been posted:

Save the gushing; it's time to fill in blanks on lakefront spire
Tower may be art in motion, but how would it move terrorists?

By Blair Kamin
Tribune architecture critic
Published July 27, 2005



Spanish architect Santiago Calatrava's seductive proposal for a twisting, 2,000-foot Chicago skyscraper, to be unveiled Wednesday, requires thinking, not swooning, if Chicagoans are to assess whether it's a good match for their vaunted skyline.

Yet swooning is the order of the day.

"It's going to put Chicago on the map," exclaims Ald. Burton Natarus (42nd), forgetting that Chicago already is the capital of America's architectural map.

Let's stop and think instead of gushing: This tower is a concept, not a finished design. Asking the right questions about it is more important than a rush to judgment.

And there are a lot of questions, like whether the 115-story hotel and condo skyscraper would be vulnerable to terrorists because of its proximity to Lake Shore Drive and whether it should even go along the Drive, where it might stick out like an attention-hogging giraffe.

No one is better than Calatrava at creating instant icons. Yet there are Calatrava buildings that deftly fit their site, like the birdlike Milwaukee Art Museum addition, and Calatrava buildings that look preposterously overblown, like his Tenerife Concert Hall in the Canary Islands. Its curving roof seems to be crashing over the building like a giant wave.

The question is which Calatrava has shown up here.

Planned for a riverfront site on the west side of Lake Shore Drive just south of Odgen Slip, Calatrava's Fordham Spire is, in his words, a "rule-breaking" design. It dispenses with the Cartesian order of Chicago's gridded skyscrapers and substitutes a Baroque dynamism based on the forms of nature. Think of a tree trunk twisting into the sky. Or a drill bit. If this represents the feminization of the muscular Chicago skyline, as some have mused, it is the most phallic feminization on the planet.

At first glance, the tower is a striking object--elegantly thin where Donald Trump's riverfront hotel-condo tower looks chunky. Its spiraling shape gives it an implied motion, a Calatrava trademark, and makes it far more alluring than the tombstonelike obelisk of the planned Freedom Tower in New York. It would be Chicago's first major skyline statement of the 21st Century.

All well and good, but Issue One, beyond whether developer Christopher Carley can come up with the money to get the thing built, has to be terrorism.

Carley and Calatrava claim that the building won't be a target because it is a residential tower and doesn't symbolize anything, as the destroyed World Trade Center did. Yet supertall towers are, by their very nature, symbolic. The extra expense of building tall has to be covered by the extra price for living the high life--and the prestige that justifies such prices.

In other words, the terrorist threat can't be easily dismissed. So it was troubling to hear representatives of the Chicago Police Department and the city's Office of Emergency Management and Communications say they hadn't even heard of the building. What do those departments think? And how might that affect the design?

Then there's the way Chicago's skyline gracefully terraces down from peaks like the John Hancock Center and the Aon Center toward the lakefront. That's an arrangement with which Chicagoans seem comfortable. Do we want to upend it, as this plan calls for? Maybe we do, considering the thinness and lightness of Calatrava's tower. But maybe we don't, given that the skyscraper may dominate everything around it. Is this the right building in the wrong place?

One more thing: How skyscrapers meet the ground is as important as how they scrape the sky. It is not encouraging that Calatrava's tower will emerge from a tiered, four-story podium like a stripper popping out of cake. That is a crude way to bring a skyscraper to the street. It makes this tower resemble a piece of sculpture on a pedestal, fit for an on-the-make, look-at-me Persian Gulf boomtown like Dubai.

But this is Chicago, where we don't need to put ourselves on the map. We need great architecture--and the thoughtful civic debate that is essential to creating it.

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Last edited by Nightsky; July 27th, 2005 at 03:19 PM.
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Old July 27th, 2005, 03:16 PM   #172
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Quote:
What about this one from Napoli? I haven't heard about that? Anyone know anything about this proposal?



yes it is a station (450 meters long : nicknamed "the waves") designed by Calatrava but it is not for Napoli however, it will be in Reggio Emilia (near Bologna). Calatrava however added this tower to the project as an experiment, but nobody had asked him to do this . So the nimby's in the citycouncil almost got a panic attack when they saw the renderings with the tower. It will probably not be part of the final project, but the station is a sure thing.
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Old July 27th, 2005, 03:23 PM   #173
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Thanks for the info! So it is a suburb of Bologna?
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Old July 27th, 2005, 03:54 PM   #174
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Thanks for the info! So it is a suburb of Bologna?
no Reggio Emilia is a seperate city (population about 140 000) , the reason why such a relatively small town is getting a huge station is that it will become a transit-hub for the future high-speed railway network because it's in the ideal position, close to the highway Milano-Bologna and a lot of space (for parking...)
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Old July 27th, 2005, 04:46 PM   #175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malec
About the FAA thing are you sure it's set in stone that nobody can build about 2000ft? I thought it was just a matter of getting approval from the government.
Yes, all they'd need is government approval. And they're not going to give up their airspace until we've filled up everything under 2,000 feet.



So who wants to take a poll? Will this be built or go the way of 7 South Dearborn? My opinion is I'll need to see some financiers before I take this legitimately.
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Old July 27th, 2005, 07:06 PM   #176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hydrogen
^Well, Adrian Smith from SOM (who designed Trump) said tonight that 2000ft is the absolute limit in that area of Chicago under FAA regulations.
Yea, I believe it's for all of the US, I remember them trying to get the antenna for the Freedom tower past 2000 ft, but they wouldn't allow it.

Also, here's a quote from a NY Times article today....

Quote:
Mr. Childs pointed out that under current Federal Aviation Administration rules, Mr. Calatrava's proposed 2,000-foot tower is as tall as any building is allowed to be.
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Old July 27th, 2005, 07:40 PM   #177
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Cool flash thingy:
http://www.fordhamco.com/top.swf
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Old July 27th, 2005, 08:00 PM   #178
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woa the base in that was really cool with its setbacks
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Old July 27th, 2005, 08:25 PM   #179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by savethewtc
Yea, I believe it's for all of the US, I remember them trying to get the antenna for the Freedom tower past 2000 ft, but they wouldn't allow it.

Also, here's a quote from a NY Times article today....
So Calatrava's would be the US tallest forever (spire wise), or until someone places a roof at 2000 ft.
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Old July 27th, 2005, 08:47 PM   #180
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...or until some developer pays-off a few congressmen to push for a variance.
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