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Old July 5th, 2009, 01:31 PM   #221
Basincreek
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According to the price estimates for the new Gold Line EIR in LA a bored tunnel costs about $350,000,000 a mile while a viaduct is about $125,000,000 a mile and a surface grade line is $75,000,000 a mile. These are averages from numerous projects in the US. Other countries will have different average costs.
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Old July 5th, 2009, 07:18 PM   #222
dwdwone
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Is most of this cost labor? I mean, conceptually it seems pretty simple. Even with a ground level 1 km line at 75 million, what supports this? The cost of the rails? The EIS? The gravel?

I know my questions sounds a bit naive, but I do wonder sbout these costs, and why they are the way they are.

Consider the cost of building a subway 10 years ago is about 1/10 of what it is today. What element(s) have increased so much that building a line have such astronomical costs?
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Old July 6th, 2009, 01:27 AM   #223
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For a surface grade line about 50-70% of the cost is property acquisition. If it is being built on an already acquired and cleared route the price drops dramatically in fact, assuming it is already flat with no surface street crossings to deal with, you can get down to $2,000,000 a mile for both light and heavy rail. Heavy rail gets more expensive because of the need for grade separations but a strange new trend is to build light rail with grade separations which means it will, in the end, cost the same as heavy rail. Viaducts and tunnels are priced the same for both heavy and light rail so if you are going to invest in that you might as well go with heavy rail.
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Old July 6th, 2009, 11:23 AM   #224
siamu maharaj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Basincreek View Post
According to the price estimates for the new Gold Line EIR in LA a bored tunnel costs about $350,000,000 a mile while a viaduct is about $125,000,000 a mile and a surface grade line is $75,000,000 a mile. These are averages from numerous projects in the US. Other countries will have different average costs.
$350m per mile??? Is that for the first mile, or is the cost the same for every additional mile?
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Old July 6th, 2009, 01:58 PM   #225
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In 2007 one kilometer in Moscow metro costed $159m. I can't find any figures about deep-laid tunnels, but i believe it is smth astronomical...
Damn, if one sells just one metro line in some big city, he'll be able to buy a fleet of nice nuclear submarines.
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Old July 6th, 2009, 02:17 PM   #226
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Here,the new metro will cost about 1,7 billion USD, 100% underground,100% bored. Its about 7,5 km long,which means about 226 million USD/km.

I cant tell you the exact cost of everything,but the 10 stations's structures cost about 0,4 billion USD,while the company responsible for the digging won the tender with about 50 million USD. So the tunnel itself costs 6 million USD/km...
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Old July 6th, 2009, 05:40 PM   #227
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In Barcelona they're building a 47,8km metro line that currently is estimated to cost roughly 7 billion euros. That's twice the original cost esimate of 3,5 billion.
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Old July 8th, 2009, 11:03 PM   #228
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Exactly. Abd since there is no real estate acquisition when going underground, and a TBM is a fixed cost, why so much? To haul the dirt away? To pay the soil engineers everytime they drill another five feet? For the lining on the tunnel walls?

It makes no sense.
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Old July 9th, 2009, 01:46 AM   #229
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a 14.5 km (9 mile) subway line was bulit in santo domingo, capital of the dominican republic. the cost of this single line was US$699m. This the whole thing. also it was bulit in just 3 years, working 24 hrs a day (construction phase).

for further reading refer to the following link

http://www.railwaygazette.com/ur_sin...s_service.html

or just search santo domingo metro on google.com
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Old September 27th, 2009, 06:05 PM   #230
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In a world bank study in Asia, the Hong Kong MTR and the Manila yellow line was cited as profitable with fare box ratios of at least 1.5. A farebox ratio of 1.0 means that revenue (ticket sales) covers operating expenses, less than 1 means operating at a loss, hence a need for subsidies.
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Old September 27th, 2009, 08:42 PM   #231
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Are we referring to operational profit or net profit? The distinction should be made as construction costs can be either funded out of tax payers' money, debt or a combination of both.

Take Singapore's MRT's main operator SMRT for instance. They are extremely profitable with minimal debt and rightly so because construction costs are borne by the government. The circle line currently under construction costs US$6.4bn and it is not in their (accounting) books.

SMRT
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Old September 28th, 2009, 02:17 AM   #232
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Operating results for transport operators in Japan:

Greater Tōkyō

East Japan Railway Company (JR East) (FY 2008: April 2008 – March 2009):
  • Operating revenue: ¥2,696,999,000,000
  • Operating profit: ¥432,554,000,000
  • Net income: ¥187,291,000,000
Tōkyō Metro (FY 2008: April 2008 – March 2009):
  • Operating revenue: ¥381,301,000,000
  • Operating profit: ¥87,519,000,000
  • Net income: ¥40,681,000,000
Tōkyō Metropolitan Bureau of Transportation (FY 2007: April 2007 – March 2008)
  • Operating revenue: ¥172,433,000,000
  • Operating profit: ¥16,743,000,000
  • Net income: ¥12,108,000,000
Yokohama Municipal Transportation Bureau (FY 2008: April 2008 – March 2009):
  • Operating revenue: ¥20,690,000,000
  • Operating profit: ¥(932,000,000)
  • Net income: ¥223,000,000
Tōkyū Corporation (FY 2008: April 2008 – March 2009):
  • Operating revenue: ¥1,304,231,000,000
  • Operating profit: ¥65,301,000,000
  • Net income: ¥10,783,000,000
Keihin Electric Express Railway (Keikyū) (FY 2008: April 2008 – March 2009):
  • Operating revenue: ¥317,875,000,000
  • Operating profit: ¥29,377,000,000
  • Net income: ¥7,101,000,000
Odakyū Electric Railway (FY 2008: April 2008 – March 2009):
  • Operating revenue: ¥554,759,000,000
  • Operating profit: ¥33,736,000,000
  • Net income: ¥10,340,000,000
Keiō Electric Railway (FY 2008: April 2008 – March 2009):
  • Operating revenue: ¥420,150,000,000
  • Operating profit: ¥33,581,000,000
  • Net income: ¥15,446,000,000
Seibu Railway (FY 2008: April 2008 – March 2009):
  • Operating revenue: ¥607,298,000,000
  • Operating profit: ¥24,533,000,000
  • Net income: ¥(29,128,000,000)
Tōbu Railway (FY 2008: April 2008 – March 2009):
  • Operating revenue: ¥601,884,000,000
  • Operating profit: ¥32,289,000,000
  • Net income: ¥16,090,000,000
Keisei Electric Railway (FY 2008: April 2008 – March 2009):
  • Operating revenue: ¥233,159,000,000
  • Operating profit: ¥23,033,000,000
  • Net income: ¥8,990,000,000
Sagami Railway (Sōtetsu) (FY 2008: April 2008 – March 2009):
  • Operating revenue: ¥272,471,000,000
  • Operating profit: ¥15,736,000,000
  • Net income: ¥5,863,000,000
Shin-Keisei Electric Railway (FY 2008: April 2008 – March 2009):
  • Operating revenue: ¥20,167,709,000
  • Operating profit: ¥2,336,412,000
  • Net income: ¥1,363,325,000
Metropolitan Intercity Railway (Tsukuba Express) (FY 2008: April 2008 – March 2009):
  • Operating revenue: ¥33,377,000,000
  • Operating profit: ¥32,946,000,000
  • Net income: ¥(1,890,000,000)
Saitama Rapid Railway (FY 2008: April 2008 – March 2009):
  • Operating revenue: ¥8,147,000,000
  • Operating profit: ¥10,028,000,000
  • Net income: ¥(3,874,000,000)
Hokusō Railway (FY 2008):
  • Operating revenue: ¥14,818,000,000
  • Operating profit: ¥4,946,000,000
  • Net income: ¥1,834,000,000
Tōyō Rapid Railway (FY 2008: April 2008 – March 2009):
  • Operating revenue: ¥15,362,943,000
  • Operating profit: ¥4,531,599,000
  • Net income: ¥(322,116,000)
Tōkyō Waterfront New Transit (Yurikamome) (FY 2008: April 2008 – March 2009):
  • Operating revenue: ¥9,017,000,000
  • Operating profit: ¥1,403,000,000
  • Net income: ¥349,000,000
Tōkyō Monorail (FY 2008: April 2008 – March 2009):
  • Operating revenue: ¥14,469,000,000
  • Operating profit: ¥1,653,000,000
  • Net income: ¥528,000,000
Shōnan Monorail (FY 2008: April 2008 – March 2009):
  • Operating revenue: ¥1,857,651,000
  • Operating profit: ¥113,260,000
  • Net income: ¥(200,612,000)
Saitama New Urban Transit (New Shuttle) (FY 2008: April 2008 – March 2009):
  • Operating revenue: ¥3,246,000,000
  • Operating profit: ¥242,000,000
  • Net income: ¥131,000,000
Yokohama New Urban Transit (Kanazawa Seaside Line) (FY 2008: April 2008 – March 2009):
  • Operating revenue: ¥3,962,508,000
  • Operating profit: ¥944,012,000
  • Net income: ¥498,249,000
Chiba Urban Monorail (FY 2008: April 2008 – March 2009):
  • Operating revenue: ¥3,105,000,000
  • Operating profit: ¥2,584,000,000
  • Net income: ¥315,000,000
Tōkyō Tama Intercity Monorail (FY 2008: April 2008 – March 2009):
  • Operating revenue: ¥7,694,000,000
  • Operating profit: ¥866,000,000
  • Net income: ¥117,000,000

Last edited by quashlo; September 28th, 2009 at 03:41 AM.
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Old September 28th, 2009, 02:18 AM   #233
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Chūkyō (Nagoya)

Nagoya Municipal Transportation Bureau (FY 2008: April 2008 – March 2009):
  • Total revenue: ¥106,300,000,000
  • Total expenses: ¥107,000,000,000
  • Net income: ¥(700,000,000)
Nagoya Railroad (FY 2008: April 2008 – March 2009):
  • Operating revenue: ¥665,034,000,000
  • Operating profit: ¥24,223,000,000
  • Net income: ¥11,574,000,000
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Old September 28th, 2009, 02:23 AM   #234
quashlo
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Keihanshin (Ōsaka-Kōbe-Kyōto)

West Japan Railway Company (JR West) (FY 2008: April 2008 – March 2009):
  • Operating revenue: ¥1,275,308,000,000
  • Operating profit: ¥122,519,000,000
  • Net income: ¥54,529,000,000
Ōsaka Municipal Transportation Bureau (FY 2008):
  • Operating revenue: ¥173,996,000,000
  • Operating profit: ¥35,000,000,000
  • Net income: ¥11,860,000,000
Kyōto Municipal Transportation Bureau (FY 2008):
  • Operating revenue: ¥42,236,000,000
  • Operating profit: ¥(8,301,000,000)
  • Net income: ¥(13,874,000,000)
Kōbe Municipal Transportation Bureau (FY 2008: April 2008 – March 2009):
  • Operating revenue: ¥12,631,278,000
  • Operating profit: ¥(1,491,656,000)
  • Net income: ¥(2,703,000,000)
Kintetsu Corporation (FY 2008: April 2008 – March 2009):
  • Operating revenue: ¥967,573,000,000
  • Operating profit: ¥43,237,000,000
  • Net income: ¥16,077,000,000
Nankai Electric Railway (FY 2008: April 2008 – March 2009):
  • Operating revenue: ¥183,389,000,000
  • Operating profit: ¥19,699,000,000
  • Net income: ¥7,374,000,000
Keihan Electric Railway (FY 2008: April 2008 – March 2009):
  • Operating revenue: ¥260,766,000,000
  • Operating profit: ¥14,687,000,000
  • Net income: ¥7,401,000,000
Hankyū-Hanshin Holdings (FY 2008: April 2008 – March 2009):
  • Operating revenue: ¥683,715,000,000
  • Operating profit: ¥77,823,000,000
  • Net income: ¥20,550,000,000
San’yō Electric Railway (FY 2008: April 2008 – March 2009):
  • Operating revenue: ¥51,111,000,000
  • Operating profit: ¥3,121,000,000
  • Net income: ¥1,291,000,000
Kōbe Rapid Transit Railway (FY 2008)
  • Operating revenue: ¥4,477,000,000
  • Operating profit: ¥(16,000,000)
  • Net income: ¥(308,000,000)
Kōbe Electric Railway (FY 2008: April 2008 – March 2009):
  • Operating revenue: ¥26,524,000,000
  • Operating profit: ¥1,749,000,000
  • Net income: ¥643,000,000
Ōsaka Monorail (FY 2008: April 2008 – March 2009):
  • Operating revenue: ¥9,797,625,000
  • Operating profit: ¥2,296,638,000
  • Net income: ¥864,512,000
Hokushin Kyūkō Railway (FY 2008: April 2008 – March 2009):
  • Operating revenue: ¥2,231,000,000
  • Operating profit: ¥140,000,000
  • Net income: ¥88,000,000
Keifuku Electric Railroad (FY 2008: April 2008 – March 2009):
  • Operating revenue: ¥12,310,000,000
  • Operating profit: ¥596,000,000
  • Net income: ¥195,000,000

Last edited by quashlo; September 28th, 2009 at 03:44 AM.
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Old September 28th, 2009, 02:24 AM   #235
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Fukuoka

Fukuoka City Transportation Bureau (FY 2008: April 2008 – March 2009):
  • Operating revenue: ¥23,128,595,000
  • Operating profit: ¥1,045,165,000
  • Net income: ¥(2,008,745,000)
Nishi-Nippon Railroad (Nishitetsu) (FY 2008: April 2008 – March 2009):
  • Operating revenue: ¥345,147,000,000
  • Operating profit: ¥10,843,000,000
  • Net income: ¥1,030,000,000

Last edited by quashlo; September 28th, 2009 at 03:51 AM.
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Old September 28th, 2009, 06:14 AM   #236
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Not a single transit system in the States has farebox recovery that fully matches expenditures. In Asian cities, where rail is the dominant mode of high-capacity transit, the ratios exceed 1.0 because the CPB (cost per boarding) on EMU rapid transit trains are lower than those on buses (efficiencies in labor, maintenance, and non-variable based costs like oil). Here in Seattle, Tacoma Link, a short tram line that runs through Downtown Tacoma, has a CPB of about $3. The line is actually free to riders. In a high density urban area with revenue service, the same line could easily attract a recovery ratio that exceeds 1.0. The commuter express buses, on the other hand, generally cost about $5-6 per boarding. This is a good argument for why capital investment in rail yields a better return, and its not just because of operating efficiencies, but because rail spurs economic development as well.
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Old November 10th, 2009, 11:26 AM   #237
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The proposed CBD metro line in Sydney is currently projected to cost AUD$800 million per kilometre. Part of the reason is that it has a harbour crossing, and will be very deep. Its only going to be 9 km's long with 6 stations.
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Old November 12th, 2009, 05:38 AM   #238
Tiago Costa
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This thread is very, very, very !
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Old November 14th, 2009, 04:05 AM   #239
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So, resurrect it!

I have a related question. I was watching the construction of our new light rail line (Dallas green line)/ I noticed that the tracks remind me of a freeway. And I wondered what the comparable costs are of an elevated section of light rail - double track - vs a similar structure to handle automobiles.

In a related wondering, I question whether or not it is wise to include plans for a metro (or light rail) as part of a freeway. There are many examples, but the one that comes immediately to mind is the subway that runs in the median of the Kennedy Expressway in Chicago. Should metro construction be coordinated with the building of roads?
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Old November 14th, 2009, 04:17 AM   #240
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwdwone View Post
I have a related question. I was watching the construction of our new light rail line (Dallas green line)/ I noticed that the tracks remind me of a freeway. And I wondered what the comparable costs are of an elevated section of light rail - double track - vs a similar structure to handle automobiles.
Some people try and rationalize transit investments by saying, "This rail line will have the capacity of an xx-lane freeway." It's a ridiculous comparison that doesn't make sense, because they're two entirely different modes and they each have different sets of purposes. After all, the rail line isn't going to serve heavy truck traffic or interstate traffic. And unless you're building the one rail line as part of a wider, more comprehensive transit network, your rail line is mostly a point-to-point service and won't be able to capture trips that don't have origins and destinations along the line. The freeway does a much better job at that. They serve two different purposes, so trying to compare the costs of a rail line to a "similar" freeway segment is difficult.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dwdwone View Post
In a related wondering, I question whether or not it is wise to include plans for a metro (or light rail) as part of a freeway. There are many examples, but the one that comes immediately to mind is the subway that runs in the median of the Kennedy Expressway in Chicago. Should metro construction be coordinated with the building of roads?
Bad idea. In some cases, it might be justified as making lemons out of lemonade, but in essence, it places the transit service in direct competition with the mode it seeks to "steal" its passengers from. In almost all cases outside of peak commute periods, the freeway will win. In the end, I don't believe the benefits (reduced costs from land acquisition and associated legal battles and perhaps a quicker implementation schedule) are worth it.
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