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Old December 5th, 2009, 03:08 AM   #261
dexmex
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It would be nice to somehow influence on London City to negotiate, with much as it can Metro build companys, like in Belgrade case it seems that getin a job in middle of world economic crises is very good oportunity to get extra km.
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Old December 5th, 2009, 05:15 AM   #262
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I think I see what you mean. Use the current conditions to get prices down? Yes it seems like a good point. I just think London is very expediently run by some very powerful interest groups. We don't necessarily do what is best or most appropriate, or go about it sensibly. London cares a lot about its wealthy bankers, not so much for its poor inner city. I'm generalising of course.
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Old December 5th, 2009, 09:21 PM   #263
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yes, i'm agree with you ,it is "tradition" continues....
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Old January 14th, 2010, 03:51 AM   #264
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In Europe people stili feel more secure if public mass city transport is public owned,couse if private owner does not get any profit than he will close it dawn,so in Europe cityes with public owned transport are more confident during this world eco crises,cityes of 2.millions such as Belgrade and Wienna are good example,thats why Belgrade ordrered completley new trolleybuses,30 trams,modernaze City reil,and prepare to build Metro..let's say that ideal combination would be public/private ownership,but only state can maintaine and develope expensive systems with no profit,but we can not to forgett benefits of cuting pollution CO2 emission,spare time of cityzans,and profit so for long term investement and development for cityes under 10 milions ,there s no many options, profitable or not mass urban transit has to develope and maintain....

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Old January 15th, 2010, 10:54 AM   #265
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Major concerns of public owned transit systems are entitlements and cross-subsidiation. It is very difficult to shut down a subway line or even specific bus lines to a region that is loosing population because politicians will get on the way and argue that reducing transportation to such a region will push it further toward decay and dilapidation.

Specific groups also manage to get their entitlements and then clinch on them, students being the best example. They run on peak time, usually have (at least in Europe) unlimited travel passes even for the summer or for routes completely unrelated to their home-school-library-home errands.
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Old January 15th, 2010, 11:00 PM   #266
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n. It is very difficult to shut down a subway line or even specific bus lines to a region that is loosing population because politicians will get on the way and argue that reducing transportation to such a region will push it further toward decay and dilapidation.
Well it would happen to a highway too. In Texas we had a private project called the Camino Columbia, a 4 lane highway to bypass Laredo's congested border crossing and link I-35 with an alternative border crossing at Columbia, Mex.

The company that operated and built it quickly went under, and the state ended up taking it over after a foreclosure process that left it temporarily blocked off to traffic.

And shutting down bus lines is difficult? Hah, every few years in many US cities the transit authority goes through some kind of budget crisis where numerous routes get changed or go away. Blame the fiscal roller coaster of sales tax dependency and politicians promising to either spend or cut funds at the start of every new administration.

And in recent history(1990's), a branch of the CTA Green Line in Chicago's south side was curtailed by about 10 blocks. Many SEPTA streetcar lines in Philly bit the dust around that time too. Oh, and PATtrain and SEMTA went by-by, and the Champlain Flyer too. Need any more rail examples?

IMO transit is meant to move people and perhaps it captures far more hard-to-monetize benefits despite the subsidy required.

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Old January 16th, 2010, 12:12 AM   #267
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I'd like to see all mass transit be profitable and be a real true end to end alternative to the mistake called automobile.

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Old January 16th, 2010, 02:30 AM   #268
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@metsfan
I am agree 100% that s main goal for evrey city,but here in Europe if you want to cover a city(majority capitals city are 1.2.3 milion large) with network of trams,metros,trolleybuses,many of that lines can not have enough profit,an later state have to finace gap losses, 40-60% all the time ,so that city can function normaly,only state can and must do that,on the other side if state posses factory for mobili units or trains than the state can benefit with higher production, or consumin the electric energy,and also we know that city is better guarntee for commercial banks t,hat loan is safe than private investor, but anyway city should include privat co.in every project, but they can choose where to put their money...
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Old January 16th, 2010, 09:38 AM   #269
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Automobile was not a mistake, but one of the greates invetions ever. It freed us up from limitation of where we can live, blurred city-rural boundaries, and allowed us to move out of derelict cities while still keeping our job positions there (people can move faster than companies).

It is a very powerful tool against real-estate tyranny and had put politicians on the electoral gunpoint: don't do what I want, and I get the hell out to the next village, depriving you of my taxes and leaving you with all the problems on your own.

It also increase our ability to decide when, and with whom, we want to meet and maitain contact. It is far private to be stuck in a freeway traffic jam than in a crowded subway full of strangers (among them, predators, thieves, criminals, junkers and terrorists) few feet around you. The ability to avoid unintended contact you get driving a private car is a godsend.
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Old January 16th, 2010, 01:47 PM   #270
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
It also increase our ability to decide when, and with whom, we want to meet and maitain contact. It is far private to be stuck in a freeway traffic jam than in a crowded subway full of strangers (among them, predators, thieves, criminals, junkers and terrorists) few feet around you. The ability to avoid unintended contact you get driving a private car is a godsend.
As I said elsewhere: The disadvantage of a car is that you have to drive it sourself.
The alternative to going to work in a car for me is to do so in a first class intercity train carriage, where I have a comfortable seat, a big table, a power socket for my laptop, a wireless internet connection and a nice lady bringing me breakfast.
And for me the train is even faster than driving.
And there are the chances of getting in contact with other people. Having a beer on the way back from the office on friday evening for example...

Public transport isn't limited to crowded subways...

Oh, and btw, the chance that I ever share the same public transport vehicle with a terrorist is so low that for practical purposes this is zero.
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Old January 16th, 2010, 09:18 PM   #271
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Automobile was not a mistake, but one of the greates invetions ever. It freed us up from limitation of where we can live, blurred city-rural boundaries, and allowed us to move out of derelict cities while still keeping our job positions there (people can move faster than companies).

It is a very powerful tool against real-estate tyranny and had put politicians on the electoral gunpoint: don't do what I want, and I get the hell out to the next village, depriving you of my taxes and leaving you with all the problems on your own.

It also increase our ability to decide when, and with whom, we want to meet and maitain contact. It is far private to be stuck in a freeway traffic jam than in a crowded subway full of strangers (among them, predators, thieves, criminals, junkers and terrorists) few feet around you. The ability to avoid unintended contact you get driving a private car is a godsend.
So if one doesn't have car, they can't live anywhere else? And what do you mean by derelict cities?
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