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Old April 14th, 2008, 03:38 AM   #81
seawastate
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MISC | Profitable mass transit?

Are there any examples of mass transit (buses, subways, metros, commuter rails, light rail, etc.) that are profitable? Are there private mass transit companies?
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Old April 14th, 2008, 03:47 AM   #82
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Hong Kong MTR is immensely profitable as are the bus companies in operation in the region (New World First Bus, Citybus, and KMB). All are private companies.
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Old April 14th, 2008, 04:06 AM   #83
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RATP is profitable, the compagny is semi-public.
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Old April 14th, 2008, 08:22 AM   #84
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As is the entire Japanese railway system, with competing railway networks that are traded on the stock markets.
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Old April 14th, 2008, 10:29 AM   #85
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SNCF is one of 500 Global Fortune compagnies and it is profitable.
The two only mass transit compagny in the Global Fortune 500 are DB and the JR East These two are surely also profitable.
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Old April 14th, 2008, 10:31 AM   #86
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I am wondering if they're profitable because of moving people, or real estate development?

I read once that only the Hong Kong MTR and Japanese railways are profitable by moving people around. Another issue is that most transit companies are subsidized by the government. The Dutch national railways are also saying they make a profit, but they also have over 2 billion in investment annually by the government. So maybe those figures can be blurred because of that.
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Old April 14th, 2008, 10:53 AM   #87
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Real estate development ? something SNCF sells ome of its railway wastelands, but it is not more.
RATP is less expensive due at the regional taxe, so it surely help
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Old April 14th, 2008, 11:09 AM   #88
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Some railway companies have land that can be developed, especially near railway stations in larger cities.
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Old April 14th, 2008, 12:34 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriszwolle View Post
I am wondering if they're profitable because of moving people, or real estate development?
C'mon Chris, be fair. I know you're pretty pro-road, but there are plenty of properly profitable systems out there with high ridership. PT can work!
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Old April 14th, 2008, 12:36 PM   #90
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Isn't TfL also profitable?
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Old April 14th, 2008, 03:12 PM   #91
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"Profitable" is a very vague term when I'm pretty sure all of these companies get loads of state subsidies and do not pay for construction.
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Old April 14th, 2008, 05:15 PM   #92
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Athens Metro is profitable, although it's the only one greek mass transit conpany who is profitable! In 2005, 76 millions Euros profit!!! 2 lines and about 40 station!
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Old April 14th, 2008, 10:23 PM   #93
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Tokyo monorail is another transit system/line that makes a profit.
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Old April 14th, 2008, 11:18 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriszwolle View Post
I am wondering if they're profitable because of moving people, or real estate development?

I read once that only the Hong Kong MTR and Japanese railways are profitable by moving people around. Another issue is that most transit companies are subsidized by the government. The Dutch national railways are also saying they make a profit, but they also have over 2 billion in investment annually by the government. So maybe those figures can be blurred because of that.
I believe Hong Kong's MTR did do some real estate development too [someone from Hong Kong please confirm this]. Vancouver's TransLink is finally involved in that as it owns many large EXPENSIVE lands and that will be sold to developers (i.e. will be destroyed bus maintenance centre sitting on prime land [surrounded by town houses]).

Unfortunately, I can't say the same for our SkyTrain and buses. Ridership for SkyTrain barely covers the costs of construction now [and we have it over twenty years...].
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Old April 14th, 2008, 11:24 PM   #95
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The major problem with mass transit in smaller urban area's is that it's very busy during rushhours, but virtually empty outside. Another problem is, that most rushhour travellers having some sort of discount program, so they don't pay the full price to cover the costs. 10 trips of fully used mass transit can barely add up to 50 trips with low ridership during the day.
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Old April 14th, 2008, 11:37 PM   #96
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Macro-economically they're all profitable.That's why every sane government keeps it running even if a rail company incur losses micro-economically.
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Old April 15th, 2008, 12:28 AM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanfan89 View Post
As is the entire Japanese railway system, with competing railway networks that are traded on the stock markets.
They are not competing, they are regional monopolies as they control infrastructure and vehicles.
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Old April 15th, 2008, 03:17 AM   #98
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I guess there is a difference between profitable and unsubsidized.. but that a system can run with enough profit to break even is pretty impressive.

Are we counting the unsubsidized mass transit systems?
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Old April 15th, 2008, 08:11 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deasine View Post
I believe Hong Kong's MTR did do some real estate development too [someone from Hong Kong please confirm this].
HK's MTR Corp. is in profit in the transit side alone.
Real estate development increases the profit even more.

See:
http://mtr.com.hk/eng/corporate/file...-08-026-E1.pdf
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Old April 15th, 2008, 09:41 PM   #100
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AFAIK in the US, Philadelphia's Market-Frankford El and the Metrolink commuter trains in LA have very high farebox recovery, that is they recoup a lot of funds through tickets and don' take a lot of subsidy to operate.

Don't think there are any truly profitable transit operations in the US tho
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