Granary Wharf | 69m, 47m & 44m | 23fl, 15fl & 14fl

[di Livio]

I went to one of the restaurants behind the Mailbox a few weeks ago and was thinking Leeds should have its equivalent waterside village. While not a total catastrophe, I feel the ISIS development is a bit of a wasted opportunity (like most developments in Leeds)

[leeds_lad]

You clearly have nothing positive to say about Leeds.. Why is that?

[aviator]

Originally Posted by leeds_lad

You clearly have nothing positive to say about Leeds.. Why is that?

I think you're being quite unjust to di Livio. He(?) always has something interesting to say even if it isn't entirely uncritical of what's happening in the city. The point di Livio makes about the Leeds waterfront is a very good one though and is endorsed by the Civic Trust among others. There are at least three waterside developments that included restaurants in their plans, and which featured prominently in the renders presented to the public. However, in all three cases, what we have in place of the restaurants proposed is offices. Now, I find that strange in a city like Leeds where new restaurants are opening almost weekly. Are we really saying that no restaurateur wants to open on a waterfront site with all the opportunity that entails?

And before anyone talks about footfall and technical stuff like that, we should remember that there are some very fine eateries in the most unprepossessing places. Anthony's and Room manage to flourish on Boar Lane which would not be the first destination of most gastronomes. Hansa on North Street has been doing good business for years, long before the Northern Quarter was invented.

On the subject of restaurants, by the way, I went to Loch Fyne in City Square on Tuesday and the food was lovely. Good, fresh fish and seafood nicely cooked (ie simply!) and not expensive for what it was. It was also surprisingly big for what looks like a rather cramped corner site from the outside. Bit like the Tardis, I suppose.

[Rob]

Original image of resdential block A



Latest image of residential block A

I really like this block, have done since it was presented in the original scheme. I haven't seen the finishes so don't know what quality they are, but I like the overall appearance. It seems to have changed shade, but I like the new warm tones, different from most of what is going up now.

We are all agreed the middle building is the weak point of the scheme. It is the one that overdevelops the site and eats up the middle ground public space. Mistertee is quite right with his design concept, it should be tall and slender, hence leaving much more precious space. But, then there is money to consider ... back down to earth ...

[JOliver]

Larger night view, from CJ site

[Myvik]

interesting shape but I don't like the brown. is there any way of making them change their minds? chocolates? begging, organising a demo?

[Smoggie_Si]

Originally Posted by leeds_lad

You clearly have nothing positive to say about Leeds.. Why is that?

WTF? Constructive criticism mean anything to you?

You clearly have very little sensible to say, who can forget your thought provoking and intelligent thread entitled 'Why not carpet bomb Bradford' ?

[di Livio]

Originally Posted by aviator

He(?)

Perhaps I've been a bit hasty in condemning the ISIS plan. I'd just like to see it develop into a vibrant, public place, a destination rather than a load of apartments with a few shops attached. But that could still happen given time, here and at Clarence Dock.

[Myvik]

Originally Posted by JOliver

Larger night view, from CJ site

its just hit me what this reminds me of - those flats overlooking the centre of Sheffield - Park Hill is it? Urg. I know its a different shape and all that but its just the colour oand the windows and the way they interact.

[JOliver]

Originally Posted by leeds_lad

You clearly have nothing positive to say about Leeds.. Why is that?

You don't get it. It's because we like Leeds we criticise it. It's a complicated emotion.

[Electric_City]

Originally Posted by di Livio

I went to one of the restaurants behind the Mailbox a few weeks ago and was thinking Leeds should have its equivalent waterside village. While not a total catastrophe, I feel the ISIS development is a bit of a wasted opportunity (like most developments in Leeds)

I would agree. That whole canalside area would have been ideal for some radical proposals. A few years ago I had an idea for the section near the station, where BWP and all those boring low-rise clones are now. It was vaguely similar in some ways to the later Alsop proposals for Bradford City Centre, except that the lake would be a proper residential marina and, to compensate for the loss of land due to the body of water, you would then build high next to it.

One of the problems that I noticed with Leeds City Centre at the time was that it did tend to feel a bit claustrophobic in places, especially when emerging from the station (of course now you can also get out at City Square). In order to appreciate tall buildings properly, you need plenty of space somewhere near them. Building a lake/marina and then a couple of really high iconic towers would create a feeling of distance and height - what I sometimes call the 'Loch Lomond Effect'.

Bit of a pompous name but you understand what I mean. Skyscrapers look great next to flat expanses of water (Manhattan, Miami, etc.).

Of course, we all have these big ideas but most of us never know anyone who could implement them!

[Rob]

I think we can appreciate all these better ideas and more ideal ways of doing things, but at the end of the day it's all down to money. Developers generally have very little margin and can really only afford fairly basic designs and have to make every square foot possible commercially viable.

On the list of expensive luxuries are fancy cladding, building much taller than necesary to leave more space, and retail units that are not really going to sell as they are a bit out of the way. These things are probably not viable with most developments. Reasons are varied, but you have to realise that as with everything, this is one of the most expensive countries in the world to build in, on top of that steel prices have shot up in recent years, and government regulations have tightened up and dreaming up new regulations all the time making construction projects more and more expensive (mostly paperwork operations like all the H&S and CDM regulations which easily double the office based personnel and add site personnel requirements on big projects like these).

I wouldn't knock Carey Jones, most of you haven't a clue about the amount of work architectural companies like this have to do. Designing a large building project isn't just drawing a rectangle and picking your finish out the Terecotta catalogue. They are limited by financial and client constraints, and the work behind the scenes they have to do to get everything to work together and pull all the engineering trades together is phenominal, there will be thousands of engineering drawings and documents to prepare and negotiate to conclusion and all to a tight timescale and financial restraints.

Not many companies are capable of taking on this level of work on a number massive of projects simultaneously, Carey Jones are very experienced now in this kind of work, and are a great asset to Leeds.

[JOliver]

Another discussion in a series – Carey Jones, saint or evil Once they've been branded a local hero. Maybe one day they'll be called a local Dirty Harry?

Not long ago someone made a very good summary of their good, bad and ugly jobs – no point repeating it. Obviously they know better how to run their business, but there is one tendency I noticed. If someone need to do a dirty job to make a few quid, who do they call? Correct, CJ. They'll do whatever they're asked (no judging whatsoever, we all have to make a living), any ugly-looking office or hotel. No offence, but a respected agency should not put its name on anything like this:



or



They are indeed nothing but rectangles in bad finish. Even Dibbers could not polish them

On the other hand, if you need a nice-looking development that would sell for a premium, would you come to CJ? Not likely. If you position yourself low, you will end up low, no matter how good you are. A good example is KW Linfoot. They needed to turn an ugly building into something they can sell (no more), and CJ delivered it for them (West Point). But for the upmarket projects they hired Aedas and Ian Simpson.

Speaking about Architecture job in general, yes it ain't easy. But what job is? And yes it is expensive to build. But it's hardly much more expensive to build a nice building, than an ugly one. And as someone who cares about Leeds, I'd wish to see more of nice ones. After all, someone posted that rents on Leeds are higher than in NY! Doesn't it alone command a design premium?

[Leeds No.1]

I quite like those buildings =/ Simple and uniform. I like CJ- its just they need to explore new designs and ideas- as does Ian Simpson- I don't want to see every Simpson tower in the same glass pattern.

[magicrealist]

Went past this avvie. Piling work on the circular tower is under way! At least I think they call it piling...vertical drills making deep holes...if they plan to erect the entire scheme simultaneously the whole place will be crawling with cranes soon.

[Leeds_John]

Are they setting up the foundations or are they just testing the ground?

[Leeds No.1]

Well whatever it is, its progress isn't it! Quite exciting; if its true, it will mean Clarence House, Bridgewater Place and this under construction at the simultaneously, and possibly The Plaza and Lumiere joining the construction club!

[Rob]

Went and had a nosey round there on Saturday (as they seem to have finished and have gone now). They have done two test drillings, one on either side of the tall circular tower. The two areas were still fenced off with steel tubing and a couple of contaminated water tanks still left around inside.

Not exactly started yet, but a clear sign that things are heading the right way and still looking on schedule. This will be assisting detailed design of the foundation piles, so a start on site could be only months away.

[jimbo]

Originally Posted by Rob

Went and had a nosey round there on Saturday (as they seem to have finished and have gone now). They have done two test drillings, one on either side of the tall circular tower. The two areas were still fenced off with steel tubing and a couple of contaminated water tanks still left around inside.

Not exactly started yet, but a clear sign that things are heading the right way and still looking on schedule. This will be assisting detailed design of the foundation piles, so a start on site could be only months away.

City Inn plans first overseas hotel in £330m expansion
By Dominic Walsh

CITY INN, a private hotel developer and operator backed by Bank of Scotland, is planning a £330 million expansion programme over the next four years that will see the chain make its first foray overseas, The Times has learnt...........

It is also developing a 284-room property in Manchester, due to open next year near Piccadilly Station, while in Leeds it has secured planning consent to build a 333-room hotel on a canalside site close to the city’s main railway station.

From the Times today: Times Online Article City Inns

came across this by accident, but it seems that City Inn could be operator lined up for Granary Wharf. I could be wrong, but the canalside location close to the station is a dead ringers for Canal Basin. Sadly not the top end operator I was hoping for, but more concrete news that the scheme is getting going.

[Rob]

It will probably be one of the biggest hotels in Leeds, 333 rooms in a 14 storey hotel building. I don't know anything about City Inn hotels, not one of the budget names you hear around. Good find by the way.