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Old July 8th, 2007, 10:57 PM   #361
iampuking
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London for me.

Pre-1900 sub-surface stations (Circle, East London, District, Hammersmith & City and Metropolitan lines, i.e. the Sub Surface Network, there are however pre-1900 overground 'tube line' stations, these are as a result of existing railway takeovers or line swapping)

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Many pre-1900 suburban stations have these 'country cottage' type of entrances, some of which are left over from existing railway take-overs, they look 'cottagey' perhaps because when they were built many of them were in the countryside!

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The platforms usually have an 'upside down picket fence' type of roof as their distinguishing feature

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Two of the few surviving C&SLR (City and South London Railway, now the Northern line's Bank branch)
entrances, these were built in 1890 and after, and was the first deep level railway in the world, however, the Tower Subway and Thames Tunnel could both be thought of as railways, the Tower Subway was cable hauled, and the Thames Tunnel wasn't originally intended to be a railway tunnel, being converted in the 1860s. The Thames Tunnel was also just a section of the East London Railway (now East London line) whereas the C&SLR was entirely in deep bore tunnels. The C&SLR tunnels are not original, as they were widened in the 1920s. The C&SLR was also one of the first railways in the world to use electric traction. C&SLR stations had plain white tiling on the platforms with a brown band legnthways, none of this tiling remains.

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Original narrow island platforms, only two stations are still like this on the network

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Waterloo station on the Waterloo & City line (originally London and South Western Railway) it was opened in 1898, noticeable in being a cut-and-cover station on a 'tube' line, the rest of the line is deep level. This isn't the original decor.

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Central London Railway stations, built around 1900. The platforms, like the C&SLR, had plain white tiling. It is now the Central line.

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Charles Yerks station (Bakerloo, Piccadilly and Northern (Charing Cross branch) lines) Designed by Leslie Green. Most of these were made between 1900-1910. The entrances have distinctive 'ox-blood' tiling for the entrances, and the platforms have unique tile patterns which differ for every station, many of which were unfortunately replaced in the 80s-90s... See below.

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1910-1920s stations on the Bakerloo's extention to Queen's Park and the Northern line's extension from Golder's Green to Edgware designed by Stanley A Heaps.

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This is a continuation of the Leslie Green stations and is therefore based on them

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Charles Holden art deco stations 1920s-1940s, there are Charles Holden stations on most lines. Some of his stations are reconstructions of existing Central London stations for the equipping of escalators, as all deep level stations were built before escalators were even invented and required lifts and a spiral staircase for emergencies. The rest of his work was reconstructions of suburban overground stations, and brand new suburban stations to encourage development.

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Art deco escalator lamps, they were first on the Tube in the late twenties, most of them were unfortunately ripped out along with the wooden escalators after the King's Cross Fire in 1987, but a handful remain

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Contemporary version, the originals were brown

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This station (Gants Hill) was modelled on the Moscow Metro after Holden visited it in the 40s

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1950-1960s stations, these are both reconstructions

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1960s-1970s stations (Victoria line) Each station has a unique motif in the wall recesses behind the benches. Some of them are a bit naff and literal, for example, Brixton has a tonne of bricks as it's motif... Other than that the platforms are practically identical, except for updates over the years: Oxford Circus and Victoria both had their tiles replaced with something just as bland and Oxford Circus and Green Park both no longer have their original motifs... See all the motifs here.

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1970s-1980s stations (Piccadilly line between Hounslow West and Heathrow Airport, and Jubilee line between Baker Street and Green Park)

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1980s-1990s stations (most of them are not original designs, most of them are in Central London, unfortunately)

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21st century stations (Mostly Jubilee line between Westminster and Stratford but some old stations that have been modernised in 21st century style)

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Last but not least, the trains, the interior decor is usually based on the line's colour, though there are some exceptions because of the Disability Discrimination Act...

Bakerloo line 1972 Stock = 7 short cars

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Central line 1992 Stock = 8 short cars

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Circle/Hammersmith & City/District (Edgware Road - Wimbledon) C Stock = 6 short cars

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District line D Stock = 6 long cars

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Metropolitan line A Stock, Metropolitan = 8 short cars

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Jubilee line 1996 Stock = 7 long cars

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Northern line 1995 Stock = 6 long cars (externally identical to 1996 Stock)

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Piccadilly line 1973 Stock = 6 long cars

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Victoria line 1967 Stock = 8 short cars (externally identical to the 1972 Stock)

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Waterloo & City line 1992 Stock = 4 short cars (externally identical to the 1992 Stock)

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Victoria line 2009 Stock, expected to enter service in 2009! It'll be 8 slightly longer cars. These trains will be slightly (only slightly) larger than existing Tube stock as the Victoria line has slightly larger tunnels, they were built larger as the sixties planners thought that this would reduce air resistance.

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This picture is from an accurate mock-up

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Sub-Surface line Stock (Circle, District, Hammersmith and City and Metropolitan lines) Circle, District Hammersmith & City lines will become 7 short cars (The Circle and Hammersmith and City are 6 short cars, the District 6 long cars, so it'll be the same for the District) Metropolitan will remaine as 8 short cars. These trains will feature air-conditioning and inter-connecting gangways, like Paris Metro line 1. As the Sub-surface lines were built for steam trains, there are sections for the hot air to be expelled. They are expected to enter service in 2010 on the Metropolitan, replacing the much-loved A Stock.

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And finally, something I thought was interesting...

Difference in size between the Sub-Surface Stock and the Tube Stock, it's the Piccadilly line 1973 Stock and Metropolitan line A Stock side by side on the Uxbridge branch.

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Last edited by iampuking; February 15th, 2008 at 01:24 PM.
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Old July 9th, 2007, 04:17 AM   #362
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The Underground is quite well kept considering its age. A lot of the stations in Zone 1 have been cleaned up. New York should learn from these efforts.
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Old July 10th, 2007, 10:13 AM   #363
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
The Underground is quite well kept considering its age. A lot of the stations in Zone 1 have been cleaned up. New York should learn from these efforts.
Agree with that. but NY should first start in rennovating its subway stations. They should keep the old design but at least make them cleaner and more stylish.
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Old July 10th, 2007, 11:06 AM   #364
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Agree with that. but NY should first start in rennovating its subway stations. They should keep the old design but at least make them cleaner and more stylish.
Some of the stations in Lower Manhattan have been cleaned up. They probably power-washed the tiles and they look quite good. London, on the other hand, has done more to renovate their Underground stations, with new wall panels, signs, and such.

Some of the stations on the A line up to the George Washington Bridge area are quite run-down, and very dirty.
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Old July 12th, 2007, 07:13 PM   #365
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i definitely say

1. Seoul or/and Tokyo (they look really similar and are very clean and tidy)
apparently, seoul metro safety is ranked #1 and capacity #2 in the world and length #4. I said seoul metro,not korean metro. That means it doesnt include that daegu thing or wtvr. those seoul subways are damn nice. you wont know what i mean unless you actually ride it, not just view it. they're building so much lines right now ahaha....

3. Moscow
without a doubt, their architecture is impressive

4. Stockholm

5. London
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Old July 25th, 2007, 06:07 AM   #366
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Old July 25th, 2007, 06:51 AM   #367
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If the prices weren't so high, London public transit would be best in the world!
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Old July 26th, 2007, 03:41 PM   #368
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If the prices weren't so high, London public transit would be best in the world!
And if the trains weren't that ugly!
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Old July 26th, 2007, 09:47 PM   #369
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And if the trains weren't that ugly!
The design is good, it's the color that's ugly.
They should paint them blue.
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Old July 26th, 2007, 10:06 PM   #370
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And if the trains weren't that ugly!
I like it personally, simple, distinctive but not too OTT. Plus the doors have to be a different colour from the body because of the Disability Discrimination Act... I'll take that over the boring functionality of Asian systems or the oh-so-original bare metal American subway cars.

And in the future can you actually say what you think is so ugly? This is a discussion forum, not somewhere where people just say something and then piss off.
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Old July 27th, 2007, 12:43 AM   #371
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iampuking View Post
I like it personally, simple, distinctive but not too OTT. Plus the doors have to be a different colour from the body because of the Disability Discrimination Act... I'll take that over the boring functionality of Asian systems or the oh-so-original bare metal American subway cars.

And in the future can you actually say what you think is so ugly? This is a discussion forum, not somewhere where people just say something and then piss off.

Come on! It was just a joke...
London Underground is just genious and i like it very much.
What I was metioning that FOR ME it could be the best metro system in the world if the trains were nicer. I just don't like the design of the trains and the interior is awfull! It is just my personal opinion, respect that, I'm not trying to piss off!
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Old July 28th, 2007, 04:20 AM   #372
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Originally Posted by picassoborseli View Post
Come on! It was just a joke...
London Underground is just genious and i like it very much.
What I was metioning that FOR ME it could be the best metro system in the world if the trains were nicer. I just don't like the design of the trains and the interior is awfull! It is just my personal opinion, respect that, I'm not trying to piss off!
I'm not angry, it is just my manner. I don't see what the point of a discussion forum if someone does not want to have a discussion. The very fact that you've claimed said something that is so subjective without even saying why is something that annoys me, it's unlike what Daryae_Abi said when he said that the Tube is expensive, that is a fact since it is among the highest, if not the highest priced underground network in the world.

The seating cover (moquette) is busy because it shows dirt and stains less, but I think even if it is a bit strange, it is another thing that makes the Tube unique. And by the way, the tube trains are rounded at the top to fit inside of the tunnels, and the fronts are flat to push air, it is 'ventilation' as the Tube has no air conditioning whatsoever. Another point is that the interior theme of the train is based on the lines colour, so the central line's 1992 Stock is red on the Tube map, so red inside the train, it's very tourist friendly and I think it gives each line it's own identity, but there is still a unified design (corporate livery, design etc.) The very fact that the interior of the train is the trains line colour makes it easier to find an interior that appeals to you, but each to their own...

And I would be to see pictures of what your idea of an attractive train interior looks like.

This also gives an idea of how much space there is inside the train, if you ask me it's quite an achievement that the trains are as fast as they are (as fast as a normal subway train) whilst in an incredibly tight space.


Last edited by iampuking; July 28th, 2007 at 04:39 AM.
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Old July 28th, 2007, 07:30 AM   #373
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LONDON NO! --> IS DIRTY!

SANTIAGO YES!! --> IS PERFECT!!

...and, I'm not Chilean...so.
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Old July 28th, 2007, 10:14 AM   #374
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LONDON NO! --> IS DIRTY!

SANTIAGO YES!! --> IS PERFECT!!

...and, I'm not Chilean...so.
I don't know about Santiago (never been there), but London underground is not dirty at all. Especially when you know it was built more than 100 years ago!
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Old July 28th, 2007, 09:05 PM   #375
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iampuking View Post
I'm not angry, it is just my manner. I don't see what the point of a discussion forum if someone does not want to have a discussion. The very fact that you've claimed said something that is so subjective without even saying why is something that annoys me, it's unlike what Daryae_Abi said when he said that the Tube is expensive, that is a fact since it is among the highest, if not the highest priced underground network in the world.

The seating cover (moquette) is busy because it shows dirt and stains less, but I think even if it is a bit strange, it is another thing that makes the Tube unique. And by the way, the tube trains are rounded at the top to fit inside of the tunnels, and the fronts are flat to push air, it is 'ventilation' as the Tube has no air conditioning whatsoever. Another point is that the interior theme of the train is based on the lines colour, so the central line's 1992 Stock is red on the Tube map, so red inside the train, it's very tourist friendly and I think it gives each line it's own identity, but there is still a unified design (corporate livery, design etc.) The very fact that the interior of the train is the trains line colour makes it easier to find an interior that appeals to you, but each to their own...

And I would be to see pictures of what your idea of an attractive train interior looks like.

This also gives an idea of how much space there is inside the train, if you ask me it's quite an achievement that the trains are as fast as they are (as fast as a normal subway train) whilst in an incredibly tight space.

Ofcourse I know that the trains are like that because, otherwise they won't fit in the tunnels. But then I still don't like the design. That rounding makes them weird.

Here an example of metrotrains I like:

METRO BILBAO




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Old July 28th, 2007, 09:26 PM   #376
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We'll have to agree to disagree. Those trains look like moving science labs if you ask me.

Sharp edges and functionality is clearly your taste, so it's not surprising you find cushioned seats, colourful interiors and curvey walls unpleasant!

And by the way there is no such words as "metrotrain" we're not Germans here.
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Old July 29th, 2007, 02:41 AM   #377
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I like the character of the London Underground but imo its not the best in the world.
Its absolutely stunning from a historical point of view and architecture wise, but the trains are too old and the tracks arent well kept imo.
The gap between the train and the platform is sometimes awfully high.
I think the system needs more investment for its size.
The Victoria or Bakerloo line trains for example are outdated and need replacing.
Also the tracks are often very bumpy to a point that it can get scary especially on the part between Angel? and Highbury.
Also the carriages are pretty small. Of course that is because the tunnels are so old but its still a problem during rush hour when your squeezed in with many other people.
And then there are the expensive fares.
I imagine that they would make millions and millions, so they should pump more money into the infrastructure.
Another drawback is also that the underground shuts down so early in the evening.

As far as the overall transport systems are concerned Tokyo is said to have the best network in the world followed by Berlin.
However I dont know which underground system is supposed to be the best.
Maybe Tokyo aswell?

Last edited by GNU; July 29th, 2007 at 03:14 AM.
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Old July 29th, 2007, 06:12 AM   #378
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Quote:
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I don't know about Santiago (never been there), but London underground is not dirty at all. Especially when you know it was built more than 100 years ago!
Being the oldest metro in the world, it is not an argument to consider it the best.
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Old July 29th, 2007, 07:02 AM   #379
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Quote:
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The gap between the train and the platform is sometimes awfully high.
Isn't that part of the character? "Mind the Gap" which is sometimes seen as a "phrase for London" wouldn't exist if it there weren't giant gaps. It would be sad if there wasn't a stern English voice barking at passengers to mind a gap over a foot wide, it's so Londonish if you ask me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Checker View Post
I think the system needs more investment for its size.
I think you'll find £10 billion is being invested in it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Checker View Post
The Victoria or Bakerloo line trains for example are outdated and need replacing.
The Victoria line is getting brand new stock to be introduced from 2009. The Bakerloo not until 2016 at the earliest. I don't see what's wrong with the Bakerloo line's stock personally, the seats are more comfy than some of the newer stocks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Checker View Post
Also the tracks are often very bumpy to a point that it can get scary especially on the part between Angel? and Highbury.
As part of the investment programme the tracks are being replaced to main line standards with flat bottomed rails and concrete sleepers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Checker View Post
Also the carriages are pretty small. Of course that is because the tunnels are so old but its still a problem during rush hour when your squeezed in with many other people.
They are, but unless you're freakishly tall or standing right near the edge of the door then you won't have much of a problem. If the train looks that crowded you can always wait for the next one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Checker View Post
And then there are the expensive fares.
Because of the investment programme...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Checker View Post
I imagine that they would make millions and millions, so they should pump more money into the infrastructure.
Ten billion...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Checker View Post
Another drawback is also that the underground shuts down so early in the evening.
Compared to most systems. It doesn't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Checker View Post
However I dont know which underground system is supposed to be the best.
Maybe Tokyo aswell?
Depends what you're judging it on. If it was charm and uniqueness I have no doubt it would be London's.

And by the way, the investment programme started in 2003, if you want to see a good line, use the Central line, smooth track, modern stock and extremely fast acceleration and braking, it sends most tourists flying which is rather amusing Give it 15 years and most lines will be like that, such a big system can't be totally modernised at the flick of a switch. And considering the state it was in 15 years ago, i'm not complaining!

Last edited by iampuking; July 29th, 2007 at 07:13 AM.
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Old July 29th, 2007, 01:33 PM   #380
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iampuking View Post
Isn't that part of the character? "Mind the Gap" which is sometimes seen as a "phrase for London" wouldn't exist if it there weren't giant gaps. It would be sad if there wasn't a stern English voice barking at passengers to mind a gap over a foot wide, it's so Londonish if you ask me.
The phrase "Mind the Gap" isnt there for fun but because the gap is so big at some stations.
And thats not good imo.
At some curved stations like Bank? the gap is so big that you can easily fall into it with one leg. thats dangerous and also very uncomfortable to elderly people or those in a wheelchair.
I dont understand why they cant make it smoother.


Quote:
I think you'll find £10 billion is being invested in it.
thats the money that Tansport for London (TFL) is going to invest in the next 5 years for its redevelopment project.
It isnt the annually/standard investment figure.
And TFL isnt only about the tube but also about London rail and the London busses.
So not all of the money is being invested into the tube.


Quote:
The Victoria line is getting brand new stock to be introduced from 2009. The Bakerloo not until 2016 at the earliest. I don't see what's wrong with the Bakerloo line's stock personally, the seats are more comfy than some of the newer stocks.
Well the Bakerloo line trains are quite old, although being younger than the Victoria line trains.
Its good to see that new trains are being introduced on both lines.
I have seen the new Victoria line trains in the Transport museum and they look good.


Quote:
They are, but unless you're freakishly tall or standing right near the edge of the door then you won't have much of a problem. If the train looks that crowded you can always wait for the next one.
Waiting for the next one is quite difficult during rush hour.
they are usually all packed then.
Btw: Im around 1,90 and its enough space for me.
But it kind of feels small when youve got so little space between your head and the roof of the carriage.


Quote:
Compared to most systems. It doesn't.
Well, in Berlin for example the tube runs 24h on Friday, Saturday and Sunday whereas it closes down in London.
I think they should also let them run 24 h on the weekend.
It makes sense and is very comfortable to the average traveller.


Quote:
And by the way, the investment programme started in 2003, if you want to see a good line, use the Central line, smooth track, modern stock and extremely fast acceleration and braking, it sends most tourists flying which is rather amusing Give it 15 years and most lines will be like that, such a big system can't be totally modernised at the flick of a switch. And considering the state it was in 15 years ago, i'm not complaining!
The central line is fine.
I ike the trains just like I like the northern line trains.
Its very fast indeed but I have to dissagree about the smoothness.
Its also very bumpy although not as bumpy as on the Victoria line.
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