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Old October 15th, 2007, 03:00 AM   #581
KVentz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iampuking View Post
if you look at the designs of the deep level tube stations built in the 20s-30s and even the 60s they look almost identical in terms of structure,
Because this was the only way to built deep station: the three tubes design (the pylon-type stations). Two tubes for the trains and one between them for the central vestibule. The first column-type deep station was the award-wining Mayakovskaya:



But there is the same three-tube design motives in the base:



Quote:
the only difference is that Moscow has a full legnth central vestibule
Not all stations in Moscow had full length central hall. 'Lubyanka' didn't have it because of very hard geology conditions. The central vestibule there was built only in 1970s, with the cross to 'Kuzneckiy most' station (Lilac line, 7).
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Old October 15th, 2007, 03:39 AM   #582
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KVentz View Post
Because this was the only way to built deep station: the three tubes design (the pylon-type stations). Two tubes for the trains and one between them for the central vestibule. The first column-type deep station was the award-wining Mayakovskaya:



But there is the same three-tube design motives in the base:




Not all stations in Moscow had full length central hall. 'Lubyanka' didn't have it because of very hard geology conditions. The central vestibule there was built only in 1970s, with the cross to 'Kuzneckiy most' station (Lilac line, 7).
I know all of this. But you said "I think the designs were original" and I was proving to you that they were not.
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Old October 15th, 2007, 03:49 AM   #583
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iampuking View Post
But you said "I think the designs were original" and I was proving to you that they were not.
Each design and construction is unique, because it depends on deep, geology and other conditions, but most deep stations have the same pylon type, same three-tubes principle, because a round tube can hold outer pressure best of all.
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Old October 15th, 2007, 07:58 AM   #584
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So you're telling me, that despite bringing in consultants from London, New York and Paris, Moscow somehow managed to do it all by it's self without learning lessons or being influenced by any other system? I'm sorry but I don't believe it.

And thanks for that handy information, there was me thinking a triangular tunnel would be a triumph in engineering efficiency!
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Old October 15th, 2007, 11:49 AM   #585
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iampuking View Post
So you're telling me, that despite bringing in consultants from London, New York and Paris, Moscow somehow managed to do it all by it's self without learning lessons or being influenced by any other system?
No, I'm not telling you this. I never told they "do it all by it's self without learning lessons or being influenced by any other system". I told each old station has each own project made by soviet engineers consulted by foreign consultants. Were those stations the copies of London ones? No. Are they similar to London stations? Yes. Yes, because the only way to build deep stations was to build a pylon-type station with two or three parallel large tunnels and passages between them.
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Old October 15th, 2007, 07:27 PM   #586
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Well, in the future, choose your words more carefully if you don't want people to be misleaded. You said "the designs were original"

The original deep level Moscow stations were:

"1. belonging or pertaining to the origin or beginning of something, or to a thing at its beginning: The book still has its original binding."

Nope.

"2. new; fresh; inventive; novel: an original way of advertising."

Nope.

"3. arising or proceeding independently of anything else: an original view of history."

Nope.

"4. capable of or given to thinking or acting in an independent, creative, or individual manner: an original thinker."

Nope.

"5. created, undertaken, or presented for the first time: to give the original performance of a string quartet."

Nope.

Thank you and have a pleasent day
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Old October 15th, 2007, 07:32 PM   #587
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iampuking View Post
Well, in the future, choose your words more carefully if you don't want people to be misleaded. You said "the designs were original"
Sorry for bad English.
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Old October 15th, 2007, 09:24 PM   #588
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It's all right...
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Old October 28th, 2007, 05:48 AM   #589
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What about Tehran Metro?
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Old October 31st, 2007, 02:27 PM   #590
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It was shown a few pages back, I doubt it'll ever be considered the best cause of it's size...
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Old November 11th, 2007, 02:15 PM   #591
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Hello buddies ,
first of all I have to say that Iīm really impressed by this forum and your replies to this topic. Iīm reading here since 2 days and this and the Tubemanīs thread are my overall-favorites... It is so interesting to see such systems growing and these great architectures.
Since yesterday evening I read every single page of this thread and Iīve seen the different "stages", f.e. the guy who notoriusly defended the New York City Subway and the very interesting discussion about the Delhi Subway (my parents come from India and even they never heard from it ).

I would call myself a train-enthusiastic since Iīve visited London for the first time. All I can remember is the "Authoritive" anncouncer ( ) saying his phrase and the brand-new Canary Wharf station, which really pulled over me.
Iīm from Frankfurt, Germany so my home-system is the U-Bahn Frankfurt (I could bite me in the ass for living here ) and I only "mentionable" visited the New York City Subway this summer, the Paris Metro (at a time where Iīve not spoken a single word Frence ) and the London Underground 2x. So I cannot make a ranking out of them because even if I learned a lot about these systems I canīt prove their "all-day-functionality" but I can explain my feelings from an evenhanded point of view.

The London Underground is an icon for me. It was the first big subway I ever visited and it changed my point of view to trains forever. The big point you were discussing about is the "flair" that itīs the oldest system and I can say that even for non-enthusiastics that there is this charme. The announcements, the ass-kicking opening from the doors, the speed they approach in the station, the escalators and the foolproof system to find the right train (different platforms for _every_ direction and line) is just gorgeous. Negative points I can mention are the sassy prices and the endless appearing ways to get to the platforms.

I had huge expectations on the New York City Subway compared to the Tube and for the fact that NY is the inofficial capital of the world. First of all i have to say that the city is just mind-boggling and I would have money...
So I got with the Amtrak to Penn Station and we bought a 7day-Metrocard. With our full-packed suitcases we wanted to reach the platform and there we met our first problem. We slided the card nearly ten times and the first comment I got from an American Lady was that "Iīm too slow buddy" . We went underground and I was nearly shocked as I saw the tracks. It _really_ looked shabby and as the first train arrived, I thought it was a bull on tracks because of the front and the incredible noise. If I got in there was the first positive experience; the a/c-system which cooled the train down like an icebox. We wanted to get off at 66th street and I didnīt believe my eyes when I heared the inaudible announcements made by the driver(?). I really didnīt unterstand a single word so we had to arrange at the station sings.
(Before we went there I had looked for a plan but I just found this one http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...subway_map.png and believe me, you f*ckin donīt understand anything compared to Londonīs.)
As the days went by, we arranged preety good with the subway and I was impressed when I saw the brand-new trains with crystal-clear announcements The sentence "Stand clear of the cloooosing doors pleease" is for me nearly as iconic as "Mind the gap" :P. We also recognized that there are express-trains (already, I think enough discussed here ) but we just had no idea to mark them off (I even donīt know today if that diamond with the line number is the sign) so we werent able to use them. I also was a little disappointed when I saw that the tph-rate was really low and often we had to wait up to 10 mins (after midnight we almost waited half-an-hour). The stations are indeed very shabby (you have to say it like that) because except for the mosaics they look all the same and are dirty and there live rats and some stations in the Bronx look like abandoned areas.
A great and exciting exception is Grand Central; one of the most beautiful stations I ever visited (but the subway platforms look even there the same :P )
I know that these are all results of the age and I donīt critizice that but I feel sorry that the MTA hasnīt recognized that a transit-system can be a major sight for tourists like TfL already did. I also know that this is part of the age-problem, but that is on ofe the only points that really sucked:
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bild:NY...v_exterior.jpg
That just sucks and the breeze is intolerable.
It seems that I dislike the NYCS but as a resumé, for me, it is a mass-transit-system with the target to get commuters to their work and back and thatīs the charme which makes it a real "subway". After the first shock, I enjoyed riding it and would be pleased to do so every day .

I would also love to ride the Moscow Subway many of you mentioned, because the stations just look lovely but I really think that the blue trains doesnīt fit. I nearly think itīs ugly to have such pretentious stations and train-liverys like that.
I never heard of the Kopenhagen- or the Istanbul- or the Athens- (f.e.) systems, but it really ignited a flame in me and Iīm sure I will visit all these systems and make my personal ranking like you did

Sorry for this big text I just want to show you that many of you have a big advantage to live in Moscow or London and that you can be proud of your system and that there are a lot of beautiful transit-systems out there.

At last I present you our "wannabe-subway" Frankfurt, which isnīt really a subway... but anyway Iīll show you some pictures I made recently (Iīm a real noobish photographer ):

Ptb stock at Centralstation (Hauptbahnhof)



U4 and U2 stock at Hauptwache

And the, in my opinion, most beautiful stations:

Schweizer Platz (Place of Switzerland )
and



Bockenheimer Warte

If you are interested in more pics, the German Wikipedia-article has some very nice ones: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/U-Bahn_Frankfurt

I hope I haven't bored you too much

Have a great day,
Xplo

(PS: Iīm sorry for my English; I know itīs not good and I have to improve it but Iīm sure it will get better )
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Old November 11th, 2007, 05:33 PM   #592
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world subway map

Europe

London 1863 Map
Glasgow 1896 Map
Newcastle-upon-Tyne 1980 Map
Paris 1900 Map
Lyon 1978 Map
Marseille 1977 Map
Lille 1983 Map
Toulouse 1993 Map
Rouen 1994 Map
Rennes 2002 Map
Berlin 1902 Map
Hamburg 1912 Map
Munich 1971 Map
Frankfurt-am-Main 1968 Map
Stuttgart 1966 Map
Nuremberg 1972 Map
Cologne(Koeln) 1978 Map
Bonn 1991 Map
Rhein-Ruhr 1977 Map
Hannover 1975 Map
Bielefeld 1990 Map
Madrid 1919 Map
Balcelona 1924 Map
Valencia 1988 Map
Bilbao 1995 Map
Palma de Mallorca 2007 Map
Lisbon 1959 Map
Porto 2002 Map
Rome 1955 Map
Milan 1964 Map
Naples (Napoli) 1993 Map
Genova(Genoa) 1990 Map
Catania 1999 Map
Torino 2006 Map
Lausanne 1991 Map
Amsterdam 1977 Map
Rotterdam 1968 Map
Brussels 1976 Map
Antwerpen 1975 Map
Charleroi 1990 Map
Wien(Vienna) 1976 Map
Athens 1904 Map
Warsaw(Warszawa) 1995 Map
Prague 1974 Map
Budapest 1896 Map
Bucharest 1979 Map
Sofia 1998 Map
Copenhagen 2002 Map
Stockholm 1950 Map
Oslo 1966 Map
Helsinki 1982 Map
Cairo 1987 Map

North America,South America

New York 1904 Map Link
Newark 1908 Map PATH CitySubway
Washington D.C. 1976 Map Link
Boston 1897 Map Link
Philadelphia 1907 Map Link PATCO
Baltimore 1983 Map Link
Pittsburgh 1985 Map Link LightMetroSubway
Chicago 1892 Map Link
Cleveland 1955 Map Link
Buffalo 1985 Map Link LightMetroSubway
Saint Louis 1993 Map Link LightMetroSubway
Atlanta 1979 Map Link
San Francisco 1972 Map Link
Los Angeles 1993 Map Link
Montreal 1966 Map Link
Miami 1984 Map
Toronto 1954 Map Link
Edmonton 1978 Map Link
Vancouver 1986 Map
Mexico City 1969 Map Link
Guadalajara 1989 Map Link LightMetroSubway
Monterrey 1994 Map RelatedHP LightMetroSubway
San Juan 2004 Map HP
Caracas 1983 Map RelatedHP
Rio de Janeiro 1979 Map Link
Sao Paolo 1974 Map Link
Brasilia 1999 Map Link
Porto Alegre 1985 Map Link
Recife 1985 Map
Belo Horizonte 1986 Map
Buenos Aires 1913 Map Link
Santiago 1975 Map Link LightMetroSubway
Valparaiso 2005 Map Link1 Link2
Medellin 1995 Map
Lima 2003 Map

Asia

Tokyo 1927 map Link1 Link2
Osaka 1933 Map Link
Nagoya 1957 Map Link
Sapporo 1971 Map Link
Yokohama 1972 Map Link
Koube 1977 Map Link
Fukuoka 1981 Map Link
Kyoto 1981 Map Link
Sendai 1987 Map Link
Hiroshima 1994 Map Link LightMetroSubway
Saitama 2001 Map Link 2001
Tukuba 2005 Map Link 2005
Seoul 1974 Map Link1 Link2
Pusan 1985 Map Link
Daegu 1997 Map Link
Inchon 1999 Map Link
Gwangju 2004 Map Link
Daejeon 2006 Map Link
Pyongyang 1973 Map Personal HP
Beijing 1969 Map Link
Tianjin 1980 Map Link
Shanghai 1993 Map Link
Guangzhou 1997 Map Link
Hong Kong 1979 Map Link
Shenzhen 2004 Map Link
Nanjing 2005 Map Link
Taipei 1997 Map Link
Bangkok 2004 Map Link Personal HP
Kuala Lumpur 1999 Map Link LightMetroSubway
Singapore 1987 Map Link
Kolkata 1984 Map Link
Delhi 2002 Map Link
Tehran 2000 Map Link
Ankara 1996 Map Link1 Link2
Istanbul 1875 Map Link
Izmir 2000 Map Link LightMetroSubway
Bursa 2002 Map Link LightMetroSubway
Haifa 1959 Map Link to Citymap

Russia,CIS

Yerevan 1981 Map Link
Baku 1967 Map Link
Minsk 1984 Map Link
Tbilisi 1966 Map Link
Moscow 1935 Map Link
Sankt Peterburg 1955 Map Link
Nizhnii Novgorod 1985 Map Link
Novosibirsk 1985 Map Link
Samara 1987 Map Link1 Link2
Yekaterinburg 1991 Map Link
Volgograd 1984 Map Link LightMetroSubway
Kazan 2005 Map Link
Kiev 1960 Map Link
Kharkov 1975 Map Link
Dnepropetrovsk 1995 Map Link
Kryvyy Rih 1986 Map Link LightMetroSubway
Tashkent 1977 Map Link

Last edited by japanese001; November 12th, 2007 at 06:33 AM.
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Old November 11th, 2007, 05:43 PM   #593
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You have missed pretty much
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Old November 11th, 2007, 06:00 PM   #594
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You have missed a lot*
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Old November 13th, 2007, 01:22 AM   #595
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xplosive View Post
Hello buddies ,
first of all I have to say that Iīm really impressed by this forum and your replies to this topic. Iīm reading here since 2 days and this and the Tubemanīs thread are my overall-favorites... It is so interesting to see such systems growing and these great architectures.
Since yesterday evening I read every single page of this thread and Iīve seen the different "stages", f.e. the guy who notoriusly defended the New York City Subway and the very interesting discussion about the Delhi Subway (my parents come from India and even they never heard from it ).

I would call myself a train-enthusiastic since Iīve visited London for the first time. All I can remember is the "Authoritive" anncouncer ( ) saying his phrase and the brand-new Canary Wharf station, which really pulled over me.
Iīm from Frankfurt, Germany so my home-system is the U-Bahn Frankfurt (I could bite me in the ass for living here ) and I only "mentionable" visited the New York City Subway this summer, the Paris Metro (at a time where Iīve not spoken a single word Frence ) and the London Underground 2x. So I cannot make a ranking out of them because even if I learned a lot about these systems I canīt prove their "all-day-functionality" but I can explain my feelings from an evenhanded point of view.

The London Underground is an icon for me. It was the first big subway I ever visited and it changed my point of view to trains forever. The big point you were discussing about is the "flair" that itīs the oldest system and I can say that even for non-enthusiastics that there is this charme. The announcements, the ass-kicking opening from the doors, the speed they approach in the station, the escalators and the foolproof system to find the right train (different platforms for _every_ direction and line) is just gorgeous. Negative points I can mention are the sassy prices and the endless appearing ways to get to the platforms.

I had huge expectations on the New York City Subway compared to the Tube and for the fact that NY is the inofficial capital of the world. First of all i have to say that the city is just mind-boggling and I would have money...
So I got with the Amtrak to Penn Station and we bought a 7day-Metrocard. With our full-packed suitcases we wanted to reach the platform and there we met our first problem. We slided the card nearly ten times and the first comment I got from an American Lady was that "Iīm too slow buddy" . We went underground and I was nearly shocked as I saw the tracks. It _really_ looked shabby and as the first train arrived, I thought it was a bull on tracks because of the front and the incredible noise. If I got in there was the first positive experience; the a/c-system which cooled the train down like an icebox. We wanted to get off at 66th street and I didnīt believe my eyes when I heared the inaudible announcements made by the driver(?). I really didnīt unterstand a single word so we had to arrange at the station sings.
(Before we went there I had looked for a plan but I just found this one http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...subway_map.png and believe me, you f*ckin donīt understand anything compared to Londonīs.)
As the days went by, we arranged preety good with the subway and I was impressed when I saw the brand-new trains with crystal-clear announcements The sentence "Stand clear of the cloooosing doors pleease" is for me nearly as iconic as "Mind the gap" :P. We also recognized that there are express-trains (already, I think enough discussed here ) but we just had no idea to mark them off (I even donīt know today if that diamond with the line number is the sign) so we werent able to use them. I also was a little disappointed when I saw that the tph-rate was really low and often we had to wait up to 10 mins (after midnight we almost waited half-an-hour). The stations are indeed very shabby (you have to say it like that) because except for the mosaics they look all the same and are dirty and there live rats and some stations in the Bronx look like abandoned areas.
A great and exciting exception is Grand Central; one of the most beautiful stations I ever visited (but the subway platforms look even there the same :P )
I know that these are all results of the age and I donīt critizice that but I feel sorry that the MTA hasnīt recognized that a transit-system can be a major sight for tourists like TfL already did. I also know that this is part of the age-problem, but that is on ofe the only points that really sucked:
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bild:NY...v_exterior.jpg
That just sucks and the breeze is intolerable.
It seems that I dislike the NYCS but as a resumé, for me, it is a mass-transit-system with the target to get commuters to their work and back and thatīs the charme which makes it a real "subway". After the first shock, I enjoyed riding it and would be pleased to do so every day .

I would also love to ride the Moscow Subway many of you mentioned, because the stations just look lovely but I really think that the blue trains doesnīt fit. I nearly think itīs ugly to have such pretentious stations and train-liverys like that.
I never heard of the Kopenhagen- or the Istanbul- or the Athens- (f.e.) systems, but it really ignited a flame in me and Iīm sure I will visit all these systems and make my personal ranking like you did

Sorry for this big text I just want to show you that many of you have a big advantage to live in Moscow or London and that you can be proud of your system and that there are a lot of beautiful transit-systems out there.

At last I present you our "wannabe-subway" Frankfurt, which isnīt really a subway... but anyway Iīll show you some pictures I made recently (Iīm a real noobish photographer ):

If you are interested in more pics, the German Wikipedia-article has some very nice ones: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/U-Bahn_Frankfurt

I hope I haven't bored you too much

Have a great day,
Xplo

(PS: Iīm sorry for my English; I know itīs not good and I have to improve it but Iīm sure it will get better )
Don't worry, your English is great, and I enjoyed your post. Welcome to the forum!

Very interesting comments, and I agree with most of what you say about London's system. Next time you travel there, get an Oyster card. It will cut your costs down enormously - no Londoner buys paper tickets anymore, and you can take your Oyster card back home and use it next time you're in London.

I use Frankfurt's "U-bahn" every day, and have to admit it is a bit lame. Only parts are really a metro, the rest are more or less glorified trams. But it does have nice wide platforms and quick easy access (due to being cut and cover for most of it) One thing I do notice very different from London's, is the lack of staff. I can't remember when I last saw staff at a station (with exception to the two big ones in the city center - and even they're probably working for the S-bahn). Where as London's underground has loads of staff at each station.

(By the way, I would guess Schweizer Platz would correctly translate into English as "Swiss Square", or maybe today thay would say "Swiss Plaza")
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Old November 13th, 2007, 01:23 AM   #596
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You have missed pretty much
Jesus, give the guy a break. It must have taken him ages to compile that list.

@japanese001, thanks for the hard work! Some of us appreciate it here
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Old November 13th, 2007, 02:11 AM   #597
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Yes it was an interesting post, but I can't see what is so special about the opening of the doors, announcements or the speed the trains approach the station!

Welcome to SSC and all that.
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Old November 13th, 2007, 02:31 AM   #598
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My favourite will go to the London Underground out of all those which I have been on. It is simply amazing. People have said enough about the tube for me not to have to go into detail about it.

I would vote for the U-bahn in Berlin as being ONE of the best as for a city of it's size it has an amazing rail network. The Kleinprofil trains are a little old but as a forumer said on the Infrastructure pages they are ordering new trains in 2011 (IK series). Also - there are sections of the Berlin S-bahn which easily run to metro frequencies on dedicated tracks with a third rail power source, so when you put both networks together it becomes a very dense rail network indeed. But this network only gets my second place award.

Finally, my third place award goes to Paris. The metro is relatively clean, efficient and is a novelty for some lines running on rubber wheels. Despite what a number of other people say, I quite like the feel of the rubber wheeled trains compared to steel. I found them to overall be quieter than steel wheel, especially going around corners.
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Old December 3rd, 2007, 06:06 AM   #599
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I love the sound the newer Parisian rubber-tyred stock makes...
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Old December 25th, 2007, 01:03 AM   #600
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Lol, calling London the best. It was one of the worst metro I've ever seen. It was expensive, claustrophobic. Stations are very boring, I would call it copy-paste design (like commieblock). Endless tiny tubes, gateways etc. Also small platforms, endless signaling problems. I've never so such problems anywhere else except London. We have problems blah blah blah and stands in the tunnel. Trains were not too frequent. Of course it is effective enough and has big network, also medal for pioneering subway. But it is not the best, even not close to. Asian metros are cleaner, safer etc. And London metro is expensive. Too expensive for such crap sevice.
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