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Old October 19th, 2008, 01:52 AM   #761
iampuking
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anm View Post
Which point am I missing? I have not come up with this thread title.

I perfectly reallise that no system may be perfect at any given time, so what? Each has flaws? That does say anything. Let me explain what you do not understand (or pretend to not understand). There are flaws and there are flaws. Here is anecdote to illustrate.


************************
A woman walks along street, a drunk guy follows her.

Hey, he says, you have crooked legs!

She does not respond but walks faster.

Hey, have you heard me, you have crooked legs!

Leave me alone, drunk hooligan, she says.

So what? I will sober tomorrow BUT YOU HAVE CROOKED LEGS!
************************

Moscow will be sober tomorrow. What about NYC?
What if she is drunk as well, and walks crooked, giving the appearance of crooken legs?

Are you saying that even when one's drunk they still see the NYC Subway system as crap?

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Originally Posted by anm View Post
IMO if there is one US system that has been done fundamentally right and belongs to this thread - it is Washington DC. And by the way - you say that every system has flaws. Which flaws does this system have in your opinion? I used it quite a few times and have found any particular flaws.
Boring samey stations. Ugly trains. Slow escalators, with dim escalator tunnels. Transverse seating layout. Too few, and too small, doors on trains. Ugly floor design in stations. Infrequent service. Trains are often shorter than they should be.

I've never been on it, and neither have I been on Moscow's, but if I did use either system i'd probably come up with more flaws.
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Old October 19th, 2008, 02:48 AM   #762
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So, not to divert from the topic of the discussion, could you reiterate what you said previously and clarify how you see London's tube being superior to the Moscow metro? In your own words, what makes an underground "authentic"?

Last edited by Major Deegan; October 19th, 2008 at 03:38 AM.
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Old October 19th, 2008, 05:44 AM   #763
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Originally Posted by Major Deegan View Post
So, not to divert from the topic of the discussion, could you reiterate what you said previously and clarify how you see London's tube being superior to the Moscow metro?
Where did I say that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Major Deegan
In your own words, what makes an underground "authentic"?
Read the page prior to that one. Someone said that a video posted was authentic.

Anyway, the 'Mind the Gap' announcement is authentic, as LU was the first one to use it.
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Old October 19th, 2008, 07:29 AM   #764
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iampuking View Post
What if she is drunk as well, and walks crooked, giving the appearance of crooken legs?

Are you saying that even when one's drunk they still see the NYC Subway system as crap?
You understood well what I said, and you have nothing to answer that is of any substance. I see no point continuing the exchange here.

Quote:
Boring samey stations. Ugly trains. Slow escalators, with dim escalator tunnels. Transverse seating layout. Too few, and too small, doors on trains. Ugly floor design in stations. Infrequent service. Trains are often shorter than they should be.

I've never been on it, and neither have I been on Moscow's, but if I did use either system i'd probably come up with more flaws.
Things that you say about Moscow and Washington DC metros tell more about you than about these systems. Particularly to people like me, who have been on both.
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Old October 19th, 2008, 09:17 PM   #765
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anm View Post
You understood well what I said, and you have nothing to answer that is of any substance. I see no point continuing the exchange here.
Yes, I understood it with difficulty. It wasn't at all clear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anm View Post
Things that you say about Moscow and Washington DC metros tell more about you than about these systems. Particularly to people like me, who have been on both.
I'm thinking of possible criticisms that could be aimed at Moscow's or Washington DC's systems, not my own personal opinions.

I happen to like the crowds on the Moscow Metro, or the strange barrel vaulted stations of Washington's. Which goes back to my original point - some people could see these as flaws but I happen to see them as things that make the system more interesting overall.

If you want, I could come up with a load of possible flaws of the London Underground to prove my objectivity?
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Old October 21st, 2008, 06:02 AM   #766
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iampuking View Post
Yes, I understood it with difficulty. It wasn't at all clear.
With difficulty, but I hope you 've made it. You seem to like finding "flaws" with everything, so let it be.

There are fundamental flaws, flaws by birth, flaws of design. Flaws that cannot be fixed in near or even long-term without astronomical investment comparable to building a whole new system from scratch.

And then, there are temporary imperfections of otherwise completely soundly designed and admirably functioning systems that have already reached levels of performance that most other systems can only dream of ever matching.

Quote:
I'm thinking of possible criticisms that could be aimed at Moscow's or Washington DC's systems, not my own personal opinions.

I happen to like the crowds on the Moscow Metro, or the strange barrel vaulted stations of Washington's. Which goes back to my original point - some people could see these as flaws but I happen to see them as things that make the system more interesting overall.

If you want, I could come up with a load of possible flaws of the London Underground to prove my objectivity?
Please spare me from this. Absolutely not. I do not need artificial proofs of anybody's objectivity (I can make that judgement without them), neither am I interested in "proving" that I am always "objective" or always right.

Regarding Moscow and DC, I do not comprehend why you are so eager to bestow on me your criticisms of the things you have never experienced on your own. What can you do other than a) repeat something somebody else already said or b) twist and misrepresent somebody else said?

Ask yourself, before gracing the crowd with your precious opinions presented as facts - 1) why would anybody be interested listening to you? why do you think what you are saying is worth other's people time? 2) what is your goal here? are you trying to learn something? to contribute to a meaningful exchange of information? or is it something else? - you decide.
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"Всякая истина, выраженная словами, есть сила, действие которой беспредельно." Лев Толстой
"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect." Mark Twain
"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
"Воображаемый мир приносит вполне реальные выгоды, если заставить жить в нем других." Веслав Брудзиньский
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Old October 22nd, 2008, 03:45 AM   #767
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brice View Post
Paris and London have already a contact less system to open turnsti;es. NY, Madrid and Moscow don't eaven know what this system is.
just for a note - moscow metro was the first metro system in europe, implemented usage of smart cards on september 1 1998.
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Old October 22nd, 2008, 12:30 PM   #768
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when i was last in Moscow, not so long ago, the ticket gates were lethal! they would slam shut on your legs!
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Old October 22nd, 2008, 12:34 PM   #769
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NYC subway - smell of urine, 50C and humid in a heat wave, trash on the floor and down between rails, rats, deafening noise... charming indeed.
but u gotta love it for that
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Old October 22nd, 2008, 02:35 PM   #770
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Originally Posted by poshbakerloo View Post
when i was last in Moscow, not so long ago, the ticket gates were lethal! they would slam shut on your legs!
soviet. they are not so forceful as it might be seeing on a first look. they are not being installed since 10 years already or so.

modern turnstiles
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Old October 22nd, 2008, 07:27 PM   #771
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Originally Posted by poshbakerloo View Post
when i was last in Moscow, not so long ago, the ticket gates were lethal! they would slam shut on your legs!
if you try to walk in without paying... I heard in some contries they cut off hands of thieves... this is a mild Russian version... gentle reminder
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"In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act." George Orwell
"Всякая истина, выраженная словами, есть сила, действие которой беспредельно." Лев Толстой
"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect." Mark Twain
"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
"Воображаемый мир приносит вполне реальные выгоды, если заставить жить в нем других." Веслав Брудзиньский
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Old October 22nd, 2008, 11:21 PM   #772
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Out of London, Paris, Barcelona & Rome (the subway systems I've been on) I actually found Barcelona had possibly the best subway. The rolling stock was fantastically modern and spacious, the frequencies were great, the tickets were really cheap (less than half the price of the London Underground for a trip) and I really appreciated knowing to the second when the next train was coming.
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Old October 23rd, 2008, 01:53 AM   #773
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anm View Post
With difficulty, but I hope you 've made it. You seem to like finding "flaws" with everything, so let it be.

There are fundamental flaws, flaws by birth, flaws of design. Flaws that cannot be fixed in near or even long-term without astronomical investment comparable to building a whole new system from scratch.

And then, there are temporary imperfections of otherwise completely soundly designed and admirably functioning systems that have already reached levels of performance that most other systems can only dream of ever matching.
How exactly are NYC Subway stations being dirty or noisy trains intrinsic flaws? Have you forgotten to take into account the many good points of the NYC Subway, express tracks and long platforms being two such examples?

Quote:
Originally Posted by anm View Post
Please spare me from this. Absolutely not. I do not need artificial proofs of anybody's objectivity (I can make that judgement without them), neither am I interested in "proving" that I am always "objective" or always right.

Regarding Moscow and DC, I do not comprehend why you are so eager to bestow on me your criticisms of the things you have never experienced on your own. What can you do other than a) repeat something somebody else already said or b) twist and misrepresent somebody else said?
It's called making an educated assumption. Let me use an example: metros are high capacity/frequency systems, to have high capacity/frequency they need to have short dwell times at stations, to have short dwell times they need to have large circulation areas by the doors, with plenty of doors. The Washington DC Metro has neither.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anm View Post
Ask yourself, before gracing the crowd with your precious opinions presented as facts - 1) why would anybody be interested listening to you? why do you think what you are saying is worth other's people time? 2) what is your goal here? are you trying to learn something? to contribute to a meaningful exchange of information? or is it something else? - you decide.
What is your goal? Considering you've been rambling far more than I have. Ever heard of the expression - "the economy of words"?
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Old October 25th, 2008, 05:46 AM   #774
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Metro de Santiago








image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


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image hosted on flickr




































image hosted on flickr





(Pictures from Flickr)



What do you think about this chilean subway?
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Old October 26th, 2008, 05:12 PM   #775
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Thread about much of the new infastructure for London's rail network, with lots of it Tube/DLR related...
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Old October 26th, 2008, 05:38 PM   #776
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The metro on the first Santiago pic looks very similar to the parisian MP 89 (lines 1 & 14).

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Old October 26th, 2008, 05:45 PM   #777
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And to answer your question Rodrigo, Santiago subway looks very modern and clean.
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Old October 26th, 2008, 08:35 PM   #778
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More announcements:
The thread about Moscow Metro Developments - under construction, planned and recently opened stations.
The thread about Moscow Metro Trains.
The thread about Moscow Railways Developments.
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Old October 26th, 2008, 08:55 PM   #779
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodrigo21 View Post
Metro de Santiago








image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr




image hosted on flickr




































image hosted on flickr





(Pictures from Flickr)



What do you think about this chilean subway?
Classy looking
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Old October 26th, 2008, 09:28 PM   #780
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Subways I've used so far (56):

Amsterdam, Antwerp, Athens, Bangkok, Barcelona, Beijing, Berlin, Boston, Bremen, Brussels, Budapest, Cairo, Chicago, Cologne, Copenhagen, Dortmund, Dusseldorf, Frankfurt, Guangzhou, Hamburg, Helsinki, Hong Kong, Istanbul, Kobe, Kuala Lumpur, Kyoto, Lisbon, London, Los Angeles, Madrid, Mexico City, Milan, Munich, Nagoya, New York, Nuremberg, Osaka, Paris, Philadelphia, Porto, Prague, Rome, Rotterdam, San Francisco, Shanghai, Shenzhen, Singapore, Stuttgart, Sydney, Tokyo, Toronto, Vienna, Washington, Yokohama


Best: Hong Kong & Singapore

Worst: Rome & Philadelphia
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