Bradford City Centre Regeneration

[Dan B]

Originally Posted by bantam

That sounds a lot better. Any renders of the revised plan?

Yes, I posted some of the images on the page before this (ok two pages before now that it's gone onto the next one, either way page 9). There is also the video I mentioned on my last thread from Squint Opera, the same guys that made the Alsop video:

http://www.squintopera.com/item.php?id=68

Some of the architecture shown on these is still not brilliant, although these are mainly where there hasn't been prior plans of design shown before. Such developments as the Gatehaus and The Channel still look great, whereas the new magistrates courts which we've not seen a render of before this video looks truely horrible. As for others they've made both detriments and improvements. For instance their 'version' of the Broadway Shopping Centre is terrible with a horrific use of concrete, whereas their design of the Manchester Road skyscraper is looking much nicer for it with reflective instead of black glass.

As for the pool, I like the way they've cut it down, I cincerely hope they don't vastly edit Centenary Square as I find there's no need. I like the idea of getting rid of the road that goes past City Hall, but I don't think new buildings should be placed on the site, as I had thought the business park would be along the Manchester Road corridor with a pedestrianised Princes Way. (By the way if you don't know what streets I'm on about, it helps to look at google earth)

[Baht'at]

You folks might be interested in the spoof copies of the T&A that have fallen into my lap

http://www.bradfordvision.co.uk/node/11761

Particularly the Bucket and Rubble Zones!

[Dan B]

Originally Posted by Baht'at

You folks might be interested in the spoof copies of the T&A that have fallen into my lap

http://www.bradfordvision.co.uk/node/11761

Particularly the Bucket and Rubble Zones!

Nice, I laughed a lot, it's so true.


I do think that Broadway will come after Westfield's reassurances, but the delay is a bit much.

Top marks on the Centenary Square Bucket by the way.

Did you make these?

[Baht'at]

Originally Posted by Daniel Brassington

Nice, I laughed a lot, it's so true.


I do think that Broadway will come after Westfield's reassurances, but the delay is a bit much.

Top marks on the Centenary Square Bucket by the way.

Did you make these?

Alas no they are by that great satirical author Anonymous.

I wish they'd get a move on with some of these highly trumpeted plans for the regeneration of parts of the city centre. The fact that the city isn't getting any real tall building schemes of any note should be enough to at least ensure that any schemes that DO pass muster should compensate for the lack of any real impact they will have on the skylne by being at least a bit daring and not so bloody pedestrian as to resemble - ooh - only about 4,000 other town centre projects being readied through the consultation stage.

Parts of the city centre are in geniuine decline at the presnet time.

[Dan B]

Originally Posted by The Fugitive

I wish they'd get a move on with some of these highly trumpeted plans for the regeneration of parts of the city centre. The fact that the city isn't getting any real tall building schemes of any note should be enough to at least ensure that any schemes that DO pass muster should compensate for the lack of any real impact they will have on the skylne by being at least a bit daring and not so bloody pedestrian as to resemble - ooh - only about 4,000 other town centre projects being readied through the consultation stage.

Parts of the city centre are in geniuine decline at the presnet time.

True, although there are a number of high-rise schemes in the works: The Channel (opposite Forster Square Retail Park), Manchester Road and The Former Gasworks Site on Thornton Road. These schemes all have proposals for buildings in the 20-something storey range.

The problem is that these schemes keep getting scaled back by the council, so they don't come off as being any special or impressive. They seem to have done this to the Channel designs and now seem far less impressive, not just in height but in overall standard of architecture.

There is currently an 11 storey building going up along Leeds Road called The Gatehaus. The design for this is very impressive, especially for its glass 'fin'. It's already at 5 storeys, so hopefully we can see this complete by next year.

I'd outline the parts around Thornton Road as a Regenerate ASAP area, there has been a plan lauched for this area, though I disagree with building use. They should at least extend the club district which is very small at present, and there really is no need for that many apartments. I also disagree heavily on their schemes for the Odeon.

One particular building that needs some attention is the Kirkgate Centre. They need to reclad that place, it really is quite depressing to walk up Darley Street.

[Baht'at]

Still no outer ringroad and no free city centre bus .... I don't think anyone's heart is in sorting Bradford out anymore.

http://www.bradfordvision.co.uk/node/11763

[di Livio]

Originally Posted by Daniel Brassington

One particular building that needs some attention is the Kirkgate Centre. They need to reclad that place, it really is quite depressing to walk up Darley Street.

Please. It's an abomination with little relationship to the street it's on.
And to think it replaced what was one of the best buildings in Yorkshire...

[Dan B]

Originally Posted by Baht'at

Still no outer ringroad and no free city centre bus .... I don't think anyone's heart is in sorting Bradford out anymore.

http://www.bradfordvision.co.uk/node/11763

Another problem with the transport around here I found was the trains. I was quite suprised to find that trains run from Leeds Central Station to Huddersfield up until past 1 o'clock. Last Train to Bradford runs at a few minutes past 11! How can they have this level of inequality in their service, and last time I checked Bradford is a bigger place than Huddersfield. The train certainly beats the extortionate taxi fares round here, which if your unlucky enough to pay on your own, are around £18! Something needs to be done about this, for if your seeing a band play (something much more likely in Leeds) it usually finishes in time for a late train like the one to Huddersfield.

Originally Posted by di Livio

Please. It's an abomination with little relationship to the street it's on.
And to think it replaced what was one of the best buildings in Yorkshire...

I fully realise what it replace, so don't 'please' me. My comments bare to the facts of pragmatism. Yes it's a horrendous piece of cack, but you can't just get rid of an entire shopping centre like that. What would you have them do, leave it as it is?

[SimCity4]

The Hudersfield trains are to Manchester Airport so run throught the Night.

[di Livio]

Originally Posted by Daniel Brassington

I fully realise what it replace, so don't 'please' me. My comments bare to the facts of pragmatism. Yes it's a horrendous piece of cack, but you can't just get rid of an entire shopping centre like that. What would you have them do, leave it as it is?

The 'please' wasn't sarcastic, you cheeky young scamp.

[Dan B]

Originally Posted by di Livio

The 'please' wasn't sarcastic, you cheeky young scamp.

heheh

[Dan B]

We have news. As much as I hate Maud Marshall, it seems they've interested retailers or something. Anyway, the most Important news is in a new date for the project.

'Retailers visit a success'
By Mark Casci
Comment

Maud Marshall
A visit from a national consortium of retailers will "without a doubt" lead to investment opportunities in Bradford's numerous commercial developments, according to Maud Marshall, the head of Bradford Centre Regeneration.

She was speaking after a consortium from the British Council of Shopping Centres visited the city to see what it has to offer.

The delegation of 45 retailers, architects and agents from the BCSC toured the city, looking at retail projects, as well as viewing presentations on what future developments will mean for Bradford.

Among the places visited were the Kirkgate Centre and the site of the ten-acre Broadway development, where work is due to get underway in January.

continued...
Once completed the development will consist of 54,600 sq metres of retail space alongside three residential and office buildings.

The visit was organised ahead of the BCSC's annual conference which takes place today in Manchester where the consortium's findings will be one of the topics of discussion.

Mrs Marshall said: "This was an excellent opportunity for Bradford to showcase its emerging retail offer - primarily through Broadway and recently refurbished Kirkgate shopping centre and also through further development.

"Without a doubt this will mean increased investment opportunities. There were some really big players here and the feedback has been very positive. The visit will also bolster links with leading retailers and strengthen Bradford's position in the process."

Those sentiments were echoed by Tony Reeves, chief executive of Bradford Council, who said: "More and more people are beginning to see what Bradford has to offer and this event should help generate business opportunities for the future."

Peter Miller, director of development, design and construction at Westfield, the company behind the multi-million pound Broadway development, was among those who attended the event.

He said: "There were plenty people who came here to Bradford for the first time and I think everyone was pleasantly surprised with the way the city looks and what opportunities exist here.

"What is important now is that we build on that."

So January, just a further two month wait, not too bad. I think people were perhaps being a bit too quick to judge on here, I think most projects will go through a period of inactivity before finally getting moving. My biggest concern though is the architecture which seems to get worse as it goes along.

[listerpark]

I think anything has to be an improvement on the facilities that are in Central Bradford at the moment. Although I do like the variety of independent retailers in town, I think it's important to have more big names here too.

Speaking of architecture I do hope though that once the Broadway development has arrived that the huge stretch of land that is the HIDEOUS Forster Square retail park can be recycled into something more pleasant. It has to be the most depressing strip of corrugated iron and imitation stone ever thrown together - it takes about 15 minutes to walk from one side to the other, having to dodge cars, pushchairs, and the railway bridge/Hamm Strasse is not my idea of retail therapy. I mean what WERE they thinking when they allowed that development?

Rant over!

[Baht'at]

Originally Posted by Daniel Brassington

We have news. As much as I hate Maud Marshall, it seems they've interested retailers or something. Anyway, the most Important news is in a new date for the project.




So January, just a further two month wait, not too bad. I think people were perhaps being a bit too quick to judge on here, I think most projects will go through a period of inactivity before finally getting moving. My biggest concern though is the architecture which seems to get worse as it goes along.

Methinks Maud the Borg speak with forked tongue. Given that Westfield say that White City and Derby are more important than Bradford there certainly won't be any work other than shifting the rubble next year.

Given that she speaks of the "recently refurbished" Kirkgate centre I think we can safely conclude that she walks round with her eyes shut ..... it still looks hideous to me.

Actually now I look again it was the Toothless and Gutless that said Janurary so I shouldn't blame the awful Scot.

[LS19]

What Bradford needs is what they should have done over 100 year ago. Connect the 2 railway stations and operate through trains. The existing New Pudsey line can then be converted to a light rail system. Also reduces the need for crews to change ends at Interhcnage.

[Baht'at]

Originally Posted by LS19

What Bradford needs is what they should have done over 100 year ago. Connect the 2 railway stations and operate through trains. The existing New Pudsey line can then be converted to a light rail system. Also reduces the need for crews to change ends at Interhcnage.

This gem always puzzles me when it is advocated as away of improving the use of Bradford, logically the only thing this would do would allow those people not wanting to get off in Bradford stay on the train.

Sure it would be nice in the fullness of time but frankly it wouldn't increase the number of people using Bradford and it might even result in a reduction in the frequency of services as the duplications on the Leeds route are eliminated.

As for light rail services I doubt they can be funded given that the Leeds scheme has been canned by the government.

Bradford doesn't even merit a free city centre bus from Metro even though Leeds and Huddersfield have both been given one.

[Dan B]

Originally Posted by listerpark

I think anything has to be an improvement on the facilities that are in Central Bradford at the moment. Although I do like the variety of independent retailers in town, I think it's important to have more big names here too.

Speaking of architecture I do hope though that once the Broadway development has arrived that the huge stretch of land that is the HIDEOUS Forster Square retail park can be recycled into something more pleasant. It has to be the most depressing strip of corrugated iron and imitation stone ever thrown together - it takes about 15 minutes to walk from one side to the other, having to dodge cars, pushchairs, and the railway bridge/Hamm Strasse is not my idea of retail therapy. I mean what WERE they thinking when they allowed that development?

Rant over!

Seconded, it's not the worst retail park I've ever seen (they do tend by definition to be nothing special), but still they shouldn't be making stuff as uninspired as that anymore, I mean those types of stores can surely be housed in more aesthetically strong buildings than that. Poor mock stone is something I definately despise, although better examples can be found nearby there at an office down the road near the Bradford Desert (that being Broadway).

As for plans for this site, there was a few from a group called Bradford Waterways, involved with the reinstatement of the Canal.

http://www.bradfordwaterways.co.uk/
(Although I can't stand this site for it's really annoying banner that repeats all the time...)

Anyway, their idea was to involve the space of the retail park as part of a sort of semi-water based retail/commercial/residential sort of development, as you can see below:




Not sure how this'd make up for the number of stores there though, perhaps with less emphasis on water as here they seem to have several lakes, just one will surfice in the neighbouring Channel Development. I would like to see further development along this coridoor, I guess depending on how much active industry there is further along, either way a site this grotty (including the channel site) should never be this close to the city centre.

I think the T&A prove themselves to be spineless again in their comment on it:

Forster Square Retail Park.

Its critics fear that this popular development at the end of Canal Road - which ten years ago was a wasteland after a huge shopping-centre plan fell through - has taken trade away from the more traditional shops in the city centre and point out that it's nothing more than a line-up of big tin sheds of the sort that can now be seen in any town and city. However, major retailers are more than happy to occupy space there and the shoppers flock to it.

That may be true, but they don't bother refuting any of the claims of its poor design, cause they know it's right. Can't they be a bit more critical? The only dissenting voice there is Mike Priestley, but aside from that, nowt.

http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.u...n_progress.php

Originally Posted by Baht'at

Methinks Maud the Borg speak with forked tongue. Given that Westfield say that White City and Derby are more important than Bradford there certainly won't be any work other than shifting the rubble next year.

Given that she speaks of the "recently refurbished" Kirkgate centre I think we can safely conclude that she walks round with her eyes shut ..... it still looks hideous to me.

Actually now I look again it was the Toothless and Gutless that said Janurary so I shouldn't blame the awful Scot.

I think she was refering to the interior when see said about the refurbishment, it'd be nice to see something on the outside too! As for Westfield, I believe they said they were still 100% dedicated to the project as they said here to refute the claims of abandoning it:

Broadway developers say: 'We're totally committed'
By Jo Winrow

Exclusive new artists' impressions, above and below, of how Bradford's new Broadway shopping centre will look after its completion
The developer behind Bradford's £300 million Broadway shopping scheme has given an unequivocal guarantee that the centre will go ahead.

"We are not walking away from Bradford. We have spent £50 million already and the scheme is definitely going ahead. We are totally committed to it," said Westfield's director of corporate affairs Simon Holberton.

Mr Holberton admitted that the early demolition of buildings had perhaps "raised expectations" but went on to say: "We are not walking away from it. We have just got to do it the right way. These things take time.

"The scheme is attracting interest from very significant retailers and we are in discussion with them and others about taking large spaces.


"We are proceeding with it as expeditiously and carefully as we can and it's on course."

Mr Holberton would not be drawn on a start date for construction or when the massive shopping centre would be opening its doors to shoppers as he said it would be against company policy.

However, he did say: "When the centre opens it's going to be full of retailers who are going to really excite the people of Bradford. We don't want to open something that's just half empty. We are working very hard to ensure that when it opens it's going to have a full complement of retailers. We want to do all that preparation ahead of time."

His reassurances follow criticisms in some quarters about the pace of the development.


Bradford councillor David Ward has said: "To us it's a tragedy that this development has slowed down. In fact it has ground to a halt."

Coun Ward (Lib Dem, Idle and Thackley) has been calling for answers as to why major construction work has not yet started. He previously told the Telegraph & Argus he feared Westfield was struggling to find tenants for the Broadway shopping centre.

Talks have been taking place between Bradford Council planners and Westfield - the world's largest retail operator - for a number of months concerning small changes to the plans. They are currently in the process of checking that pre-construction planning conditions are complied with.

The complex will include 100 shops, two department stores, 171 apartments and a large car park, with retail giants Debenhams and BHS among the main tenants.

The T&A has previously reported the Council's regeneration chief Coun Andrew Mallinson being confident Westfield would start construction work in the new year. Last month he said building work had yet to start because the Australian company was still signing up retailers.

Westfield acquired the site in December 2004, when it took over the parent company of Stannifer, the firm which had been spearheading the scheme.

It began dismantling and demolishing the empty buildings at the end of last year. But there has been an apparent lack of activity in the past few months leading to speculation about its future.

They are a Multi-national Company so I'm sure they handle several projects simultaneously. As for Derby and White City, aren't these already on the go? Shouldn't it therefore mean a spread of resources would resolve itself by the end of the completion of the Derby one, I'd say they can handle a bit of overlap.

As for what work exactly, it's anyone's guess, but couldn't they have got all the rubble shifted over these past four months in time for the project start?

The T&A might be completely spineless, but I don't think they just make up complete lies. Given their allegiances they probably have sources in higher places (i.e. Westfield), I wouldn't disbelieve a January start date.

Originally Posted by Baht'at

This gem always puzzles me when it is advocated as away of improving the use of Bradford, logically the only thing this would do would allow those people not wanting to get off in Bradford stay on the train.

Sure it would be nice in the fullness of time but frankly it wouldn't increase the number of people using Bradford and it might even result in a reduction in the frequency of services as the duplications on the Leeds route are eliminated.

As for light rail services I doubt they can be funded given that the Leeds scheme has been canned by the government.

Bradford doesn't even merit a free city centre bus from Metro even though Leeds and Huddersfield have both been given one.

Agreed. I think it makes sense to allow people to have a look at the place in between journeys, although if it's people in a hurry, they should try and operate a metro tram/bus type thing to seque between the two. As for the free city centre bus, why is Bradford always so behind on these things? Is it cost or just general incompetency within the council (or maybe both conveniently, given the councillors salaries).

[Baht'at]

Originally Posted by Daniel Brassington

They are a Multi-national Company so I'm sure they handle several projects simultaneously. As for Derby and White City, aren't these already on the go? Shouldn't it therefore mean a spread of resources would resolve itself by the end of the completion of the Derby one, I'd say they can handle a bit of overlap.

I think you are seriously over-estimating their resources (remember Multiplex?) there was serious doubt as to whether they would be able to cope with White City and I will wager that they can't and Broadway won't see any action in 2007.

I don't think the T&A are lying as such merely giving life to early optimistic predictions long after their sell-by date.

Anyway given Westfield's reputation for dirty tactics to ensure their centres are the only game in town once built we might be better off without it.

[Dan B]

Originally Posted by Baht'at

I think you are seriously over-estimating their resources (remember Multiplex?) there was serious doubt as to whether they would be able to cope with White City and I will wager that they can't and Broadway won't see any action in 2007.

I don't think the T&A are lying as such merely giving life to early optimistic predictions long after their sell-by date.

Anyway given Westfield's reputation for dirty tactics to ensure their centres are the only game in town once built we might be better off without it.

What happened with Multiplex (that being the company they were merging with right?) did it fall through?

I really don't know enough about the company, I was just assuming they'd have the capabilities.

As for the T&A, it could be quite possible, but it's hard to view it as an early prediction, after all, weren't they supposed to make way in 2005 in time for it to be open in 2007? Lost that date by a long shot. If they hold it back any further, people are going to be getting seriously pissed off here.

You have a point about Westfield, I did read their entry in Wikipedia and it did detail your typical Multi-National Corporation scandals and crime. There not exactly the best guys you want around, trouble is, pretty much all MNC's are like this, who can forget Coca Cola killing off traid unionists in South America and Nescafe producing a brand of addictive milk for babies in Africa. They are as a definition utter shits. My point being there's often no one else to turn to, especially in Bradford's case, which suffers from an image problem it's trying to overcome, not least helped by the media.

I'm thinking maybe the UK has more laws in force to stop this kind of market domination happening, we're probably nowhere near America in the sheer 'Free-ness' of the Free Market, i.e. the wrath of Wal Mart.

Perhaps though, with the additional retail space it can attract people back to Bradford to do their shopping here rather than in Leeds. One big thing the new development will offer are department stores, something Bradford either has none of or is seriously low in provision. If it can act as a catalyst then maybe there is some hope for Bradford.