Bradford City Centre Regeneration

[Mezzo]

Originally Posted by Leeds No.1

Saltaire World Heritage Site is undervalued as an attraction in West Yorkshire for example.

There's another example of Bradford Council's spectacular incompetance.
Saltaire was designated a World Heritage Site in 2001, and since then the council have done precisely NOTHING to improve the village.

They're only now cleaning up Robert's Park, and the fact we still don't have a Tourist Information Centre is inexcusable.
Plans are being thrown around to improve Victoria Road (re-cobbling it is on the cards) but no doubt it'll be another 8 years before anything happens.

Also, when I bought my house back in 1996, grants were available from Bradford Council/English Heritage for restoration work (replacing sash windows etc) and now there's nothing.
Surely, as a result of the Unesco listing, MORE money should be available to make improvements - not less?

[*-City Of Bradford-*]

Originally Posted by Leeds No.1

I don't think Bradford ever will be known as a retail destination though.

I think it can, and it needs to. Who wants to live in a city which doesn't have a good shops. If a smaller town like Derby can have a very good shopping centre, I don't see why Bradford can't.

Originally Posted by Leeds No.1

It would take millions of pounds and years of investment to get its shopping anywhere near that of Leeds'.

We don't want to compare with Leeds. We just want some good shops of our own. If the investment is avialible from the private sector, why not improve the retail in Bradford.

Originally Posted by Leeds No.1

On the other hand, Bradford has a rich Victorian streetscape and lots of tourist attractions- why not build on those strengths? Attract new museums, open new attractions, link them together etc. Saltaire World Heritage Site is undervalued as an attraction in West Yorkshire for example.

We are, we're doing that through public sector funding. Unfortunately any new attractions won't come easy, Bradford has already has a terrible reputation, even our Jewel The National Media Museum wants to open another Media Museum in London. Great.

I believe Bradford could have had more model places like Saltaire in its Urban Core. Manningham would have been great with its Listers Mill and Lister Park, but its most of its history and culture, and even worse been home to a pretty bad riot.

Originally Posted by Leeds1972

fine stone architecture, but also perhaps its ethnic mix in terms of restaurants, fabric shops etc. Also its closeness to beautiful countryside.

I think thats what exactly the city is trying to do, but its been hit badly by the recesion meaning many of these fine buildings are empty, resaurants going bust, ethnic tensions getting worse.

Originally Posted by Leeds No.1

I don't think Bradford ever will be known as a retail destination though.

I think it can, and it needs to. Who wants to live in a city which doesn't have a good shops. If a smaller town like Derby can have a very good shopping centre, I don't see why Bradford can't.

Originally Posted by Leeds No.1

It would take millions of pounds and years of investment to get its shopping anywhere near that of Leeds'.

We don't want to compare with Leeds. We just want some good shops of our own. If the investment is avialible from the private sector, why not improve the retail in Bradford.

Originally Posted by Leeds No.1

On the other hand, Bradford has a rich Victorian streetscape and lots of tourist attractions- why not build on those strengths? Attract new museums, open new attractions, link them together etc. Saltaire World Heritage Site is undervalued as an attraction in West Yorkshire for example.

We are, we're doing that through public sector funding. Unfortunately any new attractions won't come easy, Bradford has already has a terrible reputation, even our Jewel The National Media Museum wants to open another Media Museum in London. Great.

I believe Bradford could have had more model places like Saltaire in its Urban Core. Manningham would have been great with its Listers Mill and Lister Park, but its most of its history and culture, and even worse been home to a pretty bad riot.

Originally Posted by Leeds1972

Is not now a golden opportunity to think about a station to station rail link? It's always going to be a tricky project, but surely easier when there's alot of empty space rather than buildings in the way.

Well thats very impossible. For starters Bradford Council don't support it, this is a statement they said about a possible cross rail link:

"The problem is that that would be in the transport budget and it’s going to be years away from getting funding approval. You would have a shopping centre before you could have a rail link.”

Originally Posted by Mezzo

That is an outrageous statement. How dare you tar us all with the same brush?

If you think his statement was outrageous, you should read some of the things broadsword has written.

Originally Posted by Mezzo

The ONLY reason City of Bradford has been 'attacked' by some of us is his blinkered attitude towards Bradford's laughable regeneration.

Just because I have different opnions doesn't mean I have to be attacked, cyber bullied and harassed.

Originally Posted by Mezzo

I completely agree about the Odeon.
By all means, let's go ahead with the New Victoria Place scheme - but just do it in a different location.
In fact, why not build it at Broadway? The foundations wouldn't need digging.

Would be a good idea, but I just can't see it happening knowing Westfield and Bradford Regeneration.

Originally Posted by Mezzo

The whole scheme was too ambitious to begin with. They should go back to the drawing board and totally downsize it.

Flawed idea, if that was the case much of the land would remain empty because it would be half the size. On top of that many of the shops would pull out because they were told it was meant to be much bigger thus attracting more custermers.

Originally Posted by Mezzo

But offering free city centre parking would be a start.

A very simple effective idea, but its opposite whats happening right now. The Car Park prices are on the way up.

Originally Posted by Mezzo

Yet again, I'll point out that Westfield couldn't secure more than about 50% of pre-lets when the economy was booming - so why will things be any different when we've got through this recession.

Well I think before the economy went dire, Westfield were concentrating too much on London and Derby. Infact it was only in mid 2007 when they started foccusing on Bradford and employed 30 odd people to attract retailers. A few months later they were taken out, because of the reccesion.

When the economy comes back, Westfield key priorites will be Bradford, and Stratford City, Bradford being more important because Stratford City is almost sorted. It must happen,

[10123]

I wouldnt bother with anything big in Bradford center tbh, a small shopping street probably the size of brigate (leeds) the park and the museumn and thats really it, no point in making it a big center there is too much hard work and no private investments.

[Val Verde]

Originally Posted by City of Bradford

We don't want to compare with Leeds. We just want some good shops of our own. If the investment is avialible from the private sector, why not improve the retail in Bradford.

But if anchor tenants at Westfield include the likes (I think) of Debenhams, Next, Topman/shop, H&M etc how would that have the effect of creating a retail atmosphere that is unique and not full of the same old clone shops?

We are, we're doing that through public sector funding. Unfortunately any new attractions won't come easy, Bradford has already has a terrible reputation, even our Jewel The National Media Museum wants to open another Media Museum in London. Great.

Wouldn't opening a second National Media Museum in London encourage interest in the original Bradford museum perhaps regarding funding and potential visitors?

Originally Posted by City of Bradford

Well thats very impossible. For starters Bradford Council don't support it, this is a statement they said about a possible cross rail link:

"The problem is that that would be in the transport budget and it’s going to be years away from getting funding approval. You would have a shopping centre before you could have a rail link.”

Well couldn't it be testament that Bradford Council just don't have the ambition to develop this rail link which was unfortunately abandoned I believe due to the First World War (although weren't there proposals to develop a link during the 1960s or 1970s I think which were later abandoned)?

Would be a good idea, but I just can't see it happening knowing Westfield and Bradford Regeneration.

Well there is certainly the space there and surely it should lessen the embarresment of such a large empty space if even such a small development had taken place.

Originally Posted by City of Bradford

Flawed idea, if that was the case much of the land would remain empty because it would be half the size. On top of that many of the shops would pull out because they were told it was meant to be much bigger thus attracting more custermers.

But isn't it remaining empty anyway perhaps because of the over ambitious Broadway scheme. Personally they really should have retained the buildings which were on site and perhaps have performed a piecemeal site redevelopment of the worse parts of the old Broadway development to bring that end of Bradford up to scratch which would have been better then leaving it as an empty void for 5 years and counting.

Originally Posted by City of Bradford

A very simple effective idea, but its opposite whats happening right now. The Car Park prices are on the way up.

Still as for parking doesn't Bradford have the advantage in that anyone can just park in the Forster Square Retail Park completely gratis (for up to 2 hours) for looking around Bradford City Centre although it really isn't the right thing for a city centre to have such a large retail park right next door to it.

Originally Posted by City of Bradfod

Well I think before the economy went dire, Westfield were concentrating too much on London and Derby. Infact it was only in mid 2007 when they started foccusing on Bradford and employed 30 odd people to attract retailers. A few months later they were taken out, because of the reccesion.

When the economy comes back, Westfield key priorites will be Bradford, and Stratford City, Bradford being more important because Stratford City is almost sorted. It must happen,

Wouldn't Westfield perhaps focus on their plans to redevelop the long delayed Broadmarsh Centre in Nottingham prior to creating their centre in Bradford (considering Notts is a much more established shopping destination compared with Bradford) and aren't they still working on their site in Stratford considering that needs to be completed for the 2012 Olympics?

Also did you have to repeat most of your post?

I went to Bradford yesterday and it does certainly need a lot of work to make it improve although it does have assets such as plenty of decent architecture it is ruined through empty development sites and perhaps not having exploited it's niches to benefit and diffrentiate from Leeds in the past 10-20 years (and for goodness sake don't demolish the Odeon Cinema which would surely make a decent concert venue if it is ever revitalised).

[BROADSWORD]

"BROADSWORD you are a racist and a bigot. I don't care much for you,but anyone else who aligns themselves with your opions are also bigots."

Says Kidmankie... (with no evidence to support this outrageous claim).

So anyone who has my opinions about the condition of Bradford is a "racist bigot?" So anyone who does not fall over themselves agreeing with City Of Barf's propaganda drivel is a "racist bigot?"

No kidding. That must be about 90% of the people who live here.

Looks like you're in the minority sunshine.

PS: You don't care for me? Same to you kiddo. Grow up.

[emma72]

How can anyone realistically believe that Westfield will happen post recession when it didn't happen in such a period of boom? They've insunuated that they're prepared to leave the site for at least 5 years so we shouldn't expect anything until 2016 (if you include 2 years to devleop the site)

IMO All Bradford really needs is a FEW key stores that provide for all markets across the board. - there are no decent homeware stores or any clothing stores for the 'older generation' (just greenwoods - I don't think so). And what about a nice Asian city centre store. I think that given the large asian population in Bradford its amazing that we have no asian flagship stores. The council have previously talked about the world mile but I've not idea what this is - can anyone enlighten me?


Also The need for a crossrail link is as important now as it was pre war. AND people are still fighting for it.

[BROADSWORD]

City of Barf's ambitions are:

1) Westfield Bradford- Need starting Quick!
2) Bradfords transport Infustructure needs Regenerating
3) Get existing companies in Bradford to invest in the city centre:

E.g Morrisons rebuilt their City Centre Store, Tescos to rebuild theres, Hiltons to rebuild theirs. More Investment from Private Sector companies who have money to spare.

Replies:

1) Suggest you contact Westfield and let them explain to you (slowly, as you obviously weren't listening the first time) - just why they are not building in Bradford. Maybe never. It's the global economy. Where have you been the last year? If Westfield could make a go of it - they'd be building right now.

2) Bradford's transport "infustructure" (sic) needs regenerating. How? By spending about a billion quid and knocking down whole areas of the city. Don't hold your breath. Be realistic. Not going to happen.

3) Get companies to invest in the city centre? Wow - just like that? How? The great and the good have been trying to do just this for the last 30 years - and are no nearer now. If you have a master strategy for them - do get in touch.

And - Morrisons have NOT rebuilt their city centre store. They are in the process of selling it and closing it down. Wake up at the back there! This has been common knowledge for 3 years.

Everything you say is very worthy with great ambitions, But just unrealistic. There is no magic wand. No magic formula. You almost claim that these ambitions are exclusive to you and have never occurred to anyone at CBMDC.

PS: I am not against a "regenerated" Bradford. No one is. The problem - the BIG problem - that's the main reason this city is failing - is the bungling incompetent senior management in charge of strategy and policy.

They've been getting it wrong for 30 years. They run this city as a dictatorship. Jumping from one mad idea to the next, blowing away billions of public money. Our money. And getting nowhere. Then on to the next fantasy.

This is why Bradford is a failed city. On every social index. Just because you don't want this to be so - does not mean it's not a hard, nasty fact.

[*-City Of Bradford-*]

This is a thread to discuss Bradford City Centre Regeneration.

It is not to:
Harrass other people
Attack them
Insult them
Call them Names
Tell them to grow up

STOP ALL THE ATTACKING PEOPLE AND TALK ABOUT WHAT WE ARE MEANT TO TALK ABOUT, REGENERATION

From now on, no more of this.

It ends here and it ends now.

[emma72]

Originally Posted by *-City Of Bradford-*

This is a thread to discuss Bradford City Centre Regeneration.

It is not to:
Harrass other people
Attack them
Insult them
Call them Names
Tell them to grow up

STOP ALL THE ATTACKING PEOPLE AND TALK ABOUT WHAT WE ARE MEANT TO TALK ABOUT, REGENERATION

From now on, no more of this.

It ends here and it ends now.

Right this is going beyond a joke - Broadword said some things - a lot of people stuck up for City. From this point on its just got infantile.

City, you're just as bad as Broadsword. This could have stopped a long time ago if you hadn't felt the need to put your two penneth in when people were supporting you. You've antogonised Broadsworth

AND by the way his last post was pretty much a decent posting in fact he said everything you said was worthy!


Let is rest now please.

[BROADSWORD]

"This is a thread to discuss Bradford City Centre Regeneration.
It is not to:
Harrass other people
Attack them
Insult them
Call them Names
Tell them to grow up"

Quite agree.

So why not give an adult reply to an adult post instead of whining that everybody is getting at you?

My post does just that. It refers to Bradford Regeneration. And tackles (or tries to) various points. It does not harass or insult.

Why don't you read it again? And give a sensible, intelligible reply?

You really are tiresome. Stick to the point and stop being so paranoid.
Every time ANYBODY challenges your assertions - you scream racism and bigotry. Playing the racist card when you are losing an argument is pathetic, and beneath contempt.

[emma72]

I'm going out and you to had better have kissed and made up by the time I get back

[The Odeon Crusader]

Here's an artist's impression of how Park At The Heart will really pan out...

We can all thank Cllr Kris Hopkins and Yorkshire Forward for wasting £20M+ of our cash in advance!!!

[*-City Of Bradford-*]

Originally Posted by emma72

AND by the way his last post was pretty much a decent posting in fact he said everything you said was worthy!

I agree, the post was posted when I was writing mine.

But can he stop calling me City of Barf.

Can he stop doing that please, and just say COB if you want it short. I call you your proper forum name, you should call me properly aswell.

Originally Posted by BROADSWORD

Quite agree.

Brilliant, thanks.

Originally Posted by BROADSWORD

So why not give an adult reply to an adult post instead of whining that everybody is getting at you?

At the time I personally thought it was you annoying me.

Originally Posted by BROADSWORD

My post does just that. It refers to Bradford Regeneration. And tackles (or tries to) various points. It does not harass or insult.

Yes, I wasn't directly replying to that one, it was posted when I was writting my post.

Originally Posted by BROADSWORD

Why don't you read it again? And give a sensible, intelligible reply?

I will in my next post.

Originally Posted by BROADSWORD

You really are tiresome.

And you.

Originally Posted by BROADSWORD

Stick to the point and stop being so paranoid.

I will only stop if you stop.

Originally Posted by BROADSWORD

Every time ANYBODY challenges your assertions - you scream racism and bigotry. Playing the racist card when you are losing an argument is pathetic, and beneath contempt.

How wrong. Excuse me but that is fiction. I have never used the word bigot in my life, and you calling me Chicken Tikka is racist abuse- FACT.

I'm sorry BROADSWORD if I have insulted you or done anything wrong, I appologise. Please, lets end this now.

Thanks.

Originally Posted by emma72

I'm going out and you to had better have kissed and made up by the time I get back

I'm hoping we have just done that.

[BROADSWORD]

This fantasy keeps getting posted. It's been exposed once, but here goes again.

"Undergoing £1billion worth District wide Regen.
Fastest forecast rate of economic growth in WY.
One landscape many views.
Burgeoning technology sector."

Maud Marshall said the District had the potential (potential, geddit?) for £1B of investment. That was some time ago. The global economic downturn has proved this to be a myth. You might as well say it has the potential for a £trillion's worth. Why stop there? Go for it.

Fastest forecast (forecast=hopeful prediction, geddit again?) and has been exposed as another myth. You mean Leeds has a slower growth rate? Nonsense. Don't believe me? Contact Leeds Council.

OLMV is an outdated ad slogan, originally used in late 2001 (actually adapted from a David Hockney painting). Why would anyone invest in this city because of a defunct slogan? Exactly.

"Burgeoning" tech sector. Where? When? What? Absolutely no evidence for this. If you have - please get in touch with CBMDC Economic Development Unit. They would be delighted with the facts and will use it in their next ad campaign. Once again - another hopeful prediction - that some naive people are interpreting as the truth. As an aside - without resorting to references, do you know what "burgeoning" actually means? Err...

Which more or less sums up the whole rational of your premise. Hopeful fantasy predictions (nice to have 'em folks) - but nothing to do with reality.
So's hoping your lottery ticket comes up. Keep on dreaming. If it ever comes true - we're sure you'll be the first to let us all know about it.

Now - back in the real world...

[*-City Of Bradford-*]

Originally Posted by The Odeon Crusader

Here's an artist's impression of how Park At The Heart will really pan out...

We can all thank Cllr Kris Hopkins and Yorkshire Forward for wasting £20M+ of our cash in advance!!!

Already posted in the Park at the Heart Thread.

Originally Posted by BROADSWORD

Replies:
If Westfield could make a go of it - they'd be building right now.

All their major projects in the U.K are on hold, they made a full-year net loss of £1 billion.

Originally Posted by BROADSWORD

Bradford's transport "infustructure" (sic) needs regenerating. How? By spending about a billion quid and knocking down whole areas of the city. Don't hold your breath. Be realistic. Not going to happen.

I'm very realistic and transport improvements are easily possible. More stations are needed on Bradford Railway network: Laisterdyke, Bowling, Manningham. More destinations are needed from the Bradford Rail network e.g extend the Bradford Foster Square-Leeds Service to Doncaster, have a Bradford-Harrogate Connection Via Leeds.
A Bradford connection with the regions airport would be good.

The Bradford-Airedale Corridor needs improving around Saltaire and its possible but unlikely to happen.

Originally Posted by BROADSWORD

And - Morrisons have NOT rebuilt their city centre store. They are in the process of selling it and closing it down. Wake up at the back there! This has been common knowledge for 3 years.

They can't find anyone to sell it to. Its been on sale for years, they have found interested companies but in all cases its collapsed. I'm hoping one day they eventually change their mind and show that Morrisons honour their commitment to the city.

[*-City Of Bradford-*]

Originally Posted by BROADSWORD

Maud Marshall said the District had the potential (potential, geddit?) for £1B of investment. That was some time ago.

Yep, its possible we could be getting that kind of investment, many of the origonal projects are not cancelled but on hold. I guess the main ones we have lost is Citygate and the Bradford Canal after both developing companies went into administration.

Originally Posted by BROADSWORD

OLMV is an outdated ad slogan, originally used in late 2001 (actually adapted from a David Hockney painting). Why would anyone invest in this city because of a defunct slogan? Exactly.

Don't know but its Bradfords slogan and it still applies for it today.

Originally Posted by BROADSWORD

Burgeoning" tech sector. Where? When? What? Absolutely no evidence for this.

There are around 500 technology companies based in Bradford, the main ones being Pace, Filtronic and Powerwave.

[*-City Of Bradford-*]

Classic cars, classic food and classic films – the Bradford Classic lived up to its name in every possible way.

At least 20,000 people poured into Bradford city centre to view the pristine line-up of iconic cars in Centenary Square and sample the fine foods on offer at the Continental Market.

And those who were present this morning are unlikely to forget the awesome spectacle of a legendary racing car blasting around the streets of Bradford.

People looked on open mouthed as the Jaguar XJR9 that won the 1988 Le Mans 24-hour race was let loose on the public roads of a British city for the first time ever.

The vehicle was unloaded from its trailer on Sunbridge Road and then led a convoy of historic Jaguars into Centenary Square, where thousands of spectators were waiting.

Accompanied by a police escort, it performed two high-speed laps of Bradford city centre, shattering the Sunday morning silence as it made its way along Hall Ings, much to the surprise and delight of a 200-strong party that was arriving at the Hilton Hotel for a wedding reception.

[The Odeon Crusader]

Originally Posted by *-City Of Bradford-*

Already posted in the Park at the Heart Thread.

So what? I've put it on here for those who may not have seen it in the other forum... Who are you to jump on me? The forum moderator only has that privilege!

You've had a fair bit of stick over the past few days, and whilst I personally don't want to give you any more additional grief, you have to realise you have brought the vast majority of it on yourself. Your pathetic attempt to pull me up over my posting the true Park At The Heart image is a classic case in point - you just don't know when to keep your trap shut and your head down, mate!

You've had a few people on here advising you to knock it off with this annoying answering back and jumping in for the sake of it - you are definitely provoking a backlash at every opportunity. Please stop it! (unless you are enjoying this adverse attention? most forums have such "trolls")

[*-City Of Bradford-*]

Originally Posted by The Odeon Crusader

So what? I've put it on here for those who may not have seen it in the other forum... Who are you to jump on me?

I'm not jumping on you, I'm just saying it has been posted on this very forum on this very board. If your putting it in both, It kind of makes the whole point of having seperate threads for seperate projects pointless.

Originally Posted by The Odeon Crusader

you have to realise you have brought the vast majority of it on yourself."trolls")

I'm not just going to sit here and get abused, I wanted to stop it and hopefully it has stopped. I've put it behind me now, hopefully its over and no more attacking each other.

Originally Posted by The Odeon Crusader

Your pathetic attempt to pull me up over my posting the true Park At The Heart image is a classic case in point - you just don't know when to keep your trap shut and your head down, mate!

Read my comment above.

Originally Posted by The Odeon Crusader

you are definitely provoking a backlash at every opportunity. Please stop it!

I just wanted people to stop name calling, and abusing me, thats all. Its over now, I've apologized to him and sent him a PM.

[Suburban Knight]

CoB's opinions are regularly ridiculous, but the abuse of him has been well out of order. I would however advise him that, if he wants a job with somebody like Invest in Bradford in future, he needs to adopt a more realistic mindset. I'm in a similar role in a neighbouring local authority, and if he thinks the line of work involves acting like a propaganda machine where the sun shines all the time, he's rather mistaken.