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Old November 10th, 2005, 09:01 PM   #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ranny fash
in the uk the poor definitely do not live in suburbs! by far the poorest, most densely populated, and most crime ridden neighbourhoods are all inner city areas in big industrial cities, just like in north america. although many large suburban areas are quite poor as well.
This is largely true, although I think London demonstrates an interesting series of concentric rings of affluence...

Innermost = Rich (Belgravia, Bloomsbury, Kensington etc)

2nd Ring = Poor (Paddington, Somers Town, Kings Cross, Whitechapel, Bermondsey, Southwark, Peckham, Battersea, Brixton, Deptford)

3rd Ring = Rich (Greenwich, Blackheath, Dulwich, Wimbledon, Putney, Barnes, Chiswick, Richmond, Hammersmith, Fulham, Hampstead, Golders Green, Finchley, Islington)

4th Ring = Poor (Hounslow, Southall, Wembley, Dagenham, Barking, Edmonton, Morden, Sutton, Croydon)
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Old November 11th, 2005, 02:44 AM   #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubeman
This is largely true, although I think London demonstrates an interesting series of concentric rings of affluence...

Innermost = Rich (Belgravia, Bloomsbury, Kensington etc)

2nd Ring = Poor (Paddington, Somers Town, Kings Cross, Whitechapel, Bermondsey, Southwark, Peckham, Battersea, Brixton, Deptford)

3rd Ring = Rich (Greenwich, Blackheath, Dulwich, Wimbledon, Putney, Barnes, Chiswick, Richmond, Hammersmith, Fulham, Hampstead, Golders Green, Finchley, Islington)

4th Ring = Poor (Hounslow, Southall, Wembley, Dagenham, Barking, Edmonton, Morden, Sutton, Croydon)
is croydon really poor? i always assumed it was pretty wealthy - are there poor bits in the borough?

ive got friends from orpington. never been - but its a tory constituency so i'm assuming thats a well rich area!

now lets compare that to notts

innermost: - rich (city centre, lace market,.....er, the other bits are poor)

2nd ring: - poor (meadows, sneinton, st anns, forest fields, hyson green, radford, basford, lenton -- hang on, there's a rich bit: the park)

3rd ring: - poor (bakersfield, sherwood, aspley, ... and a rich bit: mapperley)

4th ring part 1: - poor (broxtowe, bestwood, bulwell, bilborough, arnold - all to the north and west of town, and carlton - to the east)

4th ring part 2: - mostly rich although probably not as rich as the london counterparts (wollaton, west bridgford, toton, beeston, chilwell (beeston and chilwell also have significantly poorer bits) - all to the south or southwest of town

5th ring: - poor (stapleford, hucknall, clifton, long eaton)

there's a pattern from here outwards: any outlying areas to the north or west are poor, any to the south or east are rich. i tried to go by your model, tubeman, but it didnt work.
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Old November 11th, 2005, 04:35 AM   #143
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I believe Southwark is poor! In fact some of the largest council estates are located in that area like The Heygate and Aylesbury estate. I think the conditions there are similar to that in the Paris suburbs like Clichy.

Southwark


This is the only photo I've found on Aylesbury Estate in Southwark. This is supposed to be the largest public housing development in Europe.




Heygate Estate
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Old November 11th, 2005, 03:06 PM   #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ranny fash
is croydon really poor? i always assumed it was pretty wealthy - are there poor bits in the borough?

ive got friends from orpington. never been - but its a tory constituency so i'm assuming thats a well rich area!

now lets compare that to notts

innermost: - rich (city centre, lace market,.....er, the other bits are poor)

2nd ring: - poor (meadows, sneinton, st anns, forest fields, hyson green, radford, basford, lenton -- hang on, there's a rich bit: the park)

3rd ring: - poor (bakersfield, sherwood, aspley, ... and a rich bit: mapperley)

4th ring part 1: - poor (broxtowe, bestwood, bulwell, bilborough, arnold - all to the north and west of town, and carlton - to the east)

4th ring part 2: - mostly rich although probably not as rich as the london counterparts (wollaton, west bridgford, toton, beeston, chilwell (beeston and chilwell also have significantly poorer bits) - all to the south or southwest of town

5th ring: - poor (stapleford, hucknall, clifton, long eaton)

there's a pattern from here outwards: any outlying areas to the north or west are poor, any to the south or east are rich. i tried to go by your model, tubeman, but it didnt work.
There are anomalies, I admit, but its largely true. British cities certainly don't fit the "Inner City = Poor / Suburbs = Rich" model that many US cities follow.

I'd be interested to colour in a map to illustrate my model.

Croydon isn't dirt-poor, but most of the housing close to the town centre is low-ish income. Its only South of the town where you start to get "nice" houses; places like Purley and Caterham.
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Old November 11th, 2005, 04:46 PM   #145
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One thing I like about public housing towns is that some (or most) of them were built from scratch and more organised than the original area.
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Old November 11th, 2005, 05:19 PM   #146
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the newest generation of public housing in Hong Kong.

The Shek Kip Mei Estate Redevelopment

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Old April 30th, 2006, 02:01 AM   #147
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in my home city

there are some public housing projects lkie märkisches viertel (big) gropusstadt (big) falkenhagener feld(big) ,marzahn (big) hohenschönhausen(big) ,hellersdorf(big) ,thermometersiedlung small and and and ........
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Old April 30th, 2006, 05:52 AM   #148
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Singapore's Near City Centre Public Housing

This is Singapore's near City Centre Public Housing being constructed now and expected to be completed around year 2009. 7- blocks of 50-storey high blocks connected at the Top level and mid level.



Virtual flats showing the interiors.
http://www.hdb.gov.sg/hdbvsf/eaap006p.nsf/ImagesView/Duxton_4r/$file/Duxton_4room.htm

http://www.hdb.gov.sg/hdbvsf/eaap006p.nsf/ImagesView/Duxton_5r/$file/Duxton_5room.htm
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Old April 30th, 2006, 04:29 PM   #149
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I think it is far better to have poor areas in the center, it forces the rich to deal with it. If you have a parisian arrangement then nothing ever gets done - out of site out of mind.
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Old April 30th, 2006, 07:09 PM   #150
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In Singapore, except for a few very high end private residential areas for the very rich, government's planning is in such a way that every housing estate should comprise the residences for the rich, the middle income and the poor. That is why every housing estate is consists of public housing, private condominium, landed properties, and rental housing for the poor.

For public housing, recent trend is towards building studio flats ( for the retirees ), 2-bedroom unit, 3 bedroom unit and 4 bedroom unit all within the same precinct or even same block. The ideas is that retirees should stay close to the young families so that they too will feel young.

Also, government stipulate quota for different racial groups based on national percentage within each public housing precinct so that diffrent races will mix around and know each other better.
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Old April 30th, 2006, 11:52 PM   #151
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in berlin

in berlin we have around 32 commieblock or housing projects in use of the US term for this houses
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Old July 23rd, 2007, 09:01 AM   #152
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I had to bring back this thread. Anyway, I found this video on youtube. Can anyone translate this or tell what this doc is about?

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Old July 23rd, 2007, 01:44 PM   #153
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It's about the building of huge housing projects in France in the 1970's, for French families but also for the families of immigrant workers which were previously living in slums (like those we see in the beginning of the video).
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Old July 23rd, 2007, 02:19 PM   #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WANCH View Post
I believe Southwark is poor! In fact some of the largest council estates are located in that area like The Heygate and Aylesbury estate. I think the conditions there are similar to that in the Paris suburbs like Clichy.

Southwark


This is the only photo I've found on Aylesbury Estate in Southwark. This is supposed to be the largest public housing development in Europe.




Heygate Estate
Ah I was on Aylesbury on Sunday. Monster development.
Block nicknamed the "Titanic":
image hosted on flickr


View from it:
image hosted on flickr
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Old July 23rd, 2007, 02:32 PM   #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubeman View Post
There are anomalies, I admit, but its largely true. British cities certainly don't fit the "Inner City = Poor / Suburbs = Rich" model that many US cities follow.

I'd be interested to colour in a map to illustrate my model.

Croydon isn't dirt-poor, but most of the housing close to the town centre is low-ish income. Its only South of the town where you start to get "nice" houses; places like Purley and Caterham.
Hehe here you go Tubeman, a London map by deprivation:



[IMG]http://i10.************/4r9r75z.jpg[/IMG]
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Old July 23rd, 2007, 03:25 PM   #156
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Paris
Place de la Catalogne
O.K it don't look at public housing but actually it is. These buildings are for low and medium income.




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Old July 23rd, 2007, 07:55 PM   #157
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those look really good :O

This is what "millionprogramme"-commies looks like in Sweden.









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Old July 24th, 2007, 06:38 AM   #158
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A couple of people have asked why tower blocks proved so unpopular in Europe, whilst being generally accepted elsewhere. - It's a good question, maybe it has something to do with the fact that in Europe, especially Britain, these kinds of developments were almost always poorly funded and maintained. Maybe its a less accepting attitude towards living in high densities, or at least on top of one another.

Whats seems to be true is that the much maligned towers have been in many cases in London, sold off to private developers and converted into snazzy, and very popular condos.

An example:

Keeling House, one of the first antecedents of all tower blocks was built in Bethnal Green, 1957. The architect Denys Lasdun attempted to place this strikingly modern building in context with its surroundings. This was rejecting the contemporary CIAM view of urban development, which called for cities to be completely redesigned in favor of efficiency.

Despite this, like so many others, lack of funding meant the tower became a dangerous and dirty place to live. Those that could moved out, to be replaced by the most economically vulnerable that often could not pay the rent which meant the local authority had even less money to spend on these estates.

Keeling house 70's:


Another problem was that these towers were often poorly constructed. The fatal collapse of Ronan Point tower in Canning town 1968 began the anti tower block backlash.
Keeling house itself was poorly built and in the end, the years of neglect made the tower so expensive to fix it had to be sold off. Narrowly avoiding demolition even though it was made a listed building in 1993.

Oddly though, a concierge service, better security and good maintenance has now made the tower of very popular place to live. When all's said and done, these towers do offer spacious flats, good balconies and great views.

Keeling house now:
image hosted on flickr


It's also been demonstrated that towers needn't be sold off privately to maintain, Trellick house got more funding in the 90's and only people who wanted to live there were housed in it. It's greatly improved from its nadir in the late 70's, early 80's.
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Old July 24th, 2007, 07:45 AM   #159
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Quote:
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Nicest public housing I have ever seen..EVER.
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Old July 24th, 2007, 04:38 PM   #160
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I don't like Bofill's designs... Too eccentric for my taste
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