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Old September 3rd, 2007, 07:41 PM   #261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by europe! View Post


lol, I am going to say this for the last time, Antwerp is not the MOST historic city !!!!
'Antwerp is not the most historic city' p12

I think some people can't read
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Old September 3rd, 2007, 07:44 PM   #262
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We could start a thread called MOST ARTISTIC CITIES. Antwerp will be surely in that list
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Old September 3rd, 2007, 07:48 PM   #263
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Nice idea
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Old September 4th, 2007, 10:19 AM   #264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boeing777 View Post
Greece not Athens.

Athens wasn't the center of the ancient greece,It wasn't the "Rome" of the period.
Wrong!! When we speak of Athens, like 'Edinburgh is the Athens of the north' etc, we speak of an important city for arts, sciences, politics etc. The Age of Pericles, the Athenian Golden Age refers to ancient Greece at its height, which was centred in ancient Athens.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_Pericles
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Old December 2nd, 2007, 12:51 PM   #265
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1) Jerusalem
2) Paris
3) Rome
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Old December 14th, 2007, 12:41 AM   #266
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1-Rome
2-Athens
3-Istanbul
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Old December 15th, 2007, 12:39 PM   #267
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I would have thought that Damascus, or maybe Basra would be at the top of this list. The area around Basra was the epicentre of the mesoptanian empire, from which the majority of our culture has derived (writing, poetry, farming etc. etc.) - And Damascus is on of the oldest cities on Earth, if not the oldest.
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Old December 22nd, 2007, 01:36 AM   #268
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your ignorance fascinates me....the oldest city on the planet which is still inhabited today which has made a huge contrabution to how we all live our daily lives and should therefore be seen as the world's most historic city is the city of Byblos on the lebanese coast north of Beirut..the city of Byblos was founded roughly around 10,000-11,000 years ago by the cannanites then the city fell into the phonecian empire and is where the first alphabet was created(you wdnt be able 2 read and write without this city) then when our lord jesus christ came lebanon the first bible was written and published in byblos ,and it is today in byblos where you see a mosque and a church built within feet of each other it is in byblos where modern civilization began , and thats a fact all of you will have to face sooner or later.
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Old February 7th, 2008, 11:30 PM   #269
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MEXICO CITY OF COURSE!
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Old February 8th, 2008, 08:50 AM   #270
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1. Mekah
2. Madina
3. Jerusalem
4. Athens
5. Rome.
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Old February 14th, 2008, 10:07 AM   #271
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Are we considering oldest continuously-habited cities or oldest cities that may have the highest age but have since been deserted, abandoned, or destroyed?
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Old February 17th, 2008, 12:44 PM   #272
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
Are we considering oldest continuously-habited cities or oldest cities that may have the highest age but have since been deserted, abandoned, or destroyed?
Neither, it's simply the one you personally think has the most interesting and/or significant history. It's quite subjective. People can vote for New York if they want to, for example.
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Old February 18th, 2008, 05:57 AM   #273
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Ahh ... hence we should clearly state what we're comparing to in our assessments to avoid a clash of opinions when we may be comparing apples to oranges.
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Old February 18th, 2008, 08:19 AM   #274
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wjfox View Post
Neither, it's simply the one you personally think has the most interesting and/or significant history. It's quite subjective. People can vote for New York if they want to, for example.
In terms of that, there can't be a single msot historic city, as the world had powerful regional centers throughout its ages that have risen and fallen, and honestly I can't rank any of them over any other.

I know this is a bit of a generic POV, but at the same time it is what I think (go figure)
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Old February 18th, 2008, 08:25 AM   #275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gladisimo View Post
In terms of that, there can't be a single msot historic city, as the world had powerful regional centers throughout its ages that have risen and fallen, and honestly I can't rank any of them over any other.

I know this is a bit of a generic POV, but at the same time it is what I think (go figure)

I suppose you can use that to judge the impact these cities had over history and whether one stood out more than others for the period they were glorious.
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Old March 19th, 2008, 08:46 AM   #276
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I would say Rome.

Rome had and still has so many influence on western societies. Many western figures in the past wanted to have a little bit of the old glory of the Roman Empire. A lot of famous buildings in western countries are influenced by old buildings in Rome.
For example, the people of Amsterdam gave their townhall in their Golden Age a Rome feel, especially on the inside.



Rome not only had the Roman Empire, but also had and still has the Vatican. Especially in the middle ages this was a very influential and powerful institution.

There are a lot of other historical cities, but none of them come really close the Rome. Asian cities had a lot of regional influence and still have, but I don't sense a lot of influence of Chinese cities towards Japan or India. For me buildings such as the United States Capitol says a lot of the influence of the old Rome. It is easy to spot something directly to Rome in many countries, while this less direct with other historical cities.

On other parts Rome might be less different with other historical cities, but on every aspect it can compared with the best.

Last edited by Wuppeltje; March 19th, 2008 at 09:00 AM.
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Old March 24th, 2008, 03:16 AM   #277
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There's no doubt Rome is the most historic place in the world !!!
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Old March 24th, 2008, 03:40 AM   #278
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Despite consistent mention of Beijing ( at least 30 forumers in this thread ), all Chinese would disagree as it is factually untrue.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Marathoner View Post
Beijing is not the most historical city in China, Xian is more historical, more than 3200 years old.

Quote:
Originally Posted by UD2 View Post
2000 years is old... but just not old enough....

I am not saying that London is not an important and historical city, but there are others that are far more histrocial than London.

You must realize that urban civialization came much later in the west than it did in the East.

Damascus had two miles of lit streets before London had its walls. The Chinese capital of Chang'an (now Xi'an) had blocks of the most modern urban planning (concepts widely used today) before London had its first cathederal.

London is the core of the industral revolution. It is no doublt that London and Paris played unmatched roles in the course of modern history, but as I said before... the history of man kind didn't began in the year 1867.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pax Sinica View Post
Kyoto really preserves a lot of Tang Dynasty's Chang'an city planning, with a smaller scale though. Without Chang'an, the famous Silk Road would never become the world's oldest, busiest and longest trade route. When Chang'an was at its peak, it always represented some of the most expensive goods in the ancient time such as silk, porcelain, jade or tea.

BTW, "Chang'an" means eternal peace and its current name "Xi'an" means western peace. For those don't know Chinese characters, "Beijing" means northern capital, "Nanjing" means southern capital and "Tokyo" means eastern capital.

The site of Chang'an of the Han Dynasty(206 BC–AD 220) was located in northwest of today's Xi'an, Shaanxi. Another site, Chang'an of the Tang Dynasty(618–907), includes the area inside the walls of Xi'an, small parts of eastern, western and major part of southern suburbs of modern Xi'an city. It is 8 times as big as the Xi'an city in the Ming Dynasty(1368–1644), which was reconstructed on the basis of the imperial city of the Sui and Tang Dynasty. Chang'an was one of the largest and the most populous cities in the world.

As the capital of the Western Han Dynasty, it was the political, economic and cultural center of China, the start of the Silk Road, and an cosmopolitan metropolis comparable with the greatest cities of the contemporaneous Roman Empire. It was a consumer city, a city whose existence was not primarily predicated upon manufacturing and trade, but rather boasted such a large population because of its role as the political capital of China.

Xi'an is now listed as one of the Four/Eight Great Ancient Capitals(Xi'an, Nanjing, Beijing, Luoyang/Kaifeng, Hangzhou, Anyang and Zhengzhou) of China because it has been the capital of 13 dynasties such as Zhou, Qin, Han, and Tang.


Some of the most important events in this eternal peaceful city....

11th century BC-770 BC: Zhou Dynasty established its capital in Feng and Hao, both located west of contemporary Xi'an.
221 BC-206 BC: Qin Dynasty constructed its capital in Xianyang, on the north shore of Wei River. It was burned by Xiang Yu at the end of the dynasty.
202 BC: Liu Bang, the founding emperor of the Han Dynasty, established Chang'an County as his capital; his first palace Changle Palace was built across the river from the ruin of the Qin capital. This is traditionally regarded as the founding date of Chang'an and Xi'an.
200 BC: Emperor Liu Bang built Weiyang Palace in Chang'an.
194 BC: Construction of the first city wall of Chang'an began, which did not finished until 190 BC. The wall measured 25.7 km in length, 12-16 m in thickness at the base. The area within the wall was ca. 36 kmē.
582: Emperor of Sui Dynasty ordered a new capital to be built southeast of the Han capital, called Daxing. It consisted of three sections: the Palace, the Imperial City, and the civilian section. The total area within the wall was 84 kmē, The main street Zhuque Avenue measured 155 m in width. It was the largest city in the world. The city was renamed Chang'an in Tang Dynasty.
7th century: Buddhist monk Xuan Zang, well-known as Tang Sanzang in China, established a sizeable translation centre after returning from India with Sanskrit scriptures.
701: Construction of Da Yan Pagoda. It measured 64 m in height. This pagoda was constructed for the storage of the translation of the Buddha Sutra obtained from India by the monk Xuan Zang.
707: Construction of Xiao Yan Pagoda began. It measured 45 m in height. After the earthquake of 1556 AD, its height was reduced to 43.4 m.
904: The end of Tang Dynasty brought destruction to Chang'an. Residences were forced to move to Luoyang, the new capital. Only a small area continued to be occupied after the destruction.
1370: Ming Dynasty built a new wall to protect a much smaller city of 12 kmē. The wall measures 11.9 km in circumference, 12 m in height, and 15-18 m in thickness at the base.
1936: This city was the site of the Xi'an Incident during World War II. The Xi'an Incident brought the Communist Party of China and Kuomintang to a truce so the two forces could concentrate on fighting against Japan.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Skybean View Post
Chang'an / Xian is a much older capital than Beijing. There are monuments, buildings and relics from thousands of years ago. Yet this city barely gets a mention.


Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xi%27an
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chang%27an

Xian City Walls (700 years old)


Big Goose Pagoda (1350 years old)


Small Goose Pagoda (1300 years old)


Great Mosque of Xian (1360 years old)


Qin Shi Huang Masoleum + Terra Cotta Warriors (2300 years old)


....


Quote:
Originally Posted by Wuppeltje View Post
I don't sense a lot of influence of Chinese cities towards Japan or India.
Wrong. Please don't look at Japanese cities that were fire bombed during the Second World War like Tokyo. Take a look at the building styles in Korea, China and Japan. There are clear design cues from Xi'an. Kyoto in Japan was designed by taking planning ideas from Xi'an. There are also similarities in spoken and written language, culture and dress (amongst many other similarities).
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Old March 24th, 2008, 06:40 AM   #279
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skybean View Post
Wrong. Please don't look at Japanese cities that were fire bombed during the Second World War like Tokyo. Take a look at the building styles in Korea, China and Japan. There are clear design cues from Xi'an. Kyoto in Japan was designed by taking planning ideas from Xi'an. There are also similarities in spoken and written language, culture and dress (amongst many other similarities).
But are these similarities all coming from Xi'an?

Rome was not just the capital of the Roman Empire, all the other cities were nothing compared to Rome in it's empire. And the influence of Rome was far beyond the borders of the empire. Rome is considered as the first city with more than 1 million inhabitants. No city came close in the western world for a very long time, not only in seize, but also not in political, economical, and military power.

A lot of the infrastructure build by Rome was still in use in the Middle Ages, long after the fall of Rome. In the rule of law in many countries there are a lot of traces to Rome. In most written languages that western countries have there are still all kind of words that are directly from Latin. We use a Roman alphabet in most western countries. Roman numbers aren't really in use anymore, you can still find buildings in a lot of countries and on all continents with Roman numbers on it.

While other cities are more important than Rome nowadays, Rome itself is still important for a major part of the world (especially religion).

Last edited by Wuppeltje; March 24th, 2008 at 06:49 AM.
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Old March 25th, 2008, 04:16 AM   #280
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Rome's claim to be the first city to 1 million inhabitants can be disputed. As various sources seem to indicate vastly different counts for the same years. Honestly, it would be extremely difficult to count that many people or organize any kind of terribly accurate census.

From this source, Chang'an is the amongst the first to reach 1,000,000 (and had 100,000 people in 1000 B.C.) :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ughout_history

Around 750 A.D. Chang'an was called a "million people's city" in Chinese records, while modern estimates put it at around 800,000–1,000,000 within city walls. According to the census in the year 742 recorded in the New Book of Tang, 362,921 families with 1,960,188 persons were counted in Jingzhao Fu (京兆府), the metropolitan area including small cities in the vicinity.

The site of the Han capital was located 3 km northwest of modern Xi'an. As the capital of the Western Han, it was the political, economic and cultural center of China. It was also the eastern terminus of the Silk Road, and a cosmopolitan metropolis comparable with the greatest cities of the contemporaneous Roman Empire.

The "Silk Road" essentially came into being from the 1st century BC, following these efforts by China to consolidate a road to the Western world and India, both through direct settlements in the area of the Tarim Basin and diplomatic relations with the countries of the Dayuan, Parthians and Bactrians further west. The Han Dynasty Chinese army regularly policed the trade route against nomadic bandit forces generally identified as the Xiongnu/Huns. Han general Ban Chao led an army of 70,000 mounted infantry and light cavalry troops in the 1st century AD to secure the trade routes, reaching far west across central Asia to the doorstep of Europe, and setting up base on the shores of the Caspian Sea in cooperation with the Parthian Kingdom under Pacorus II of Parthia.

A maritime "Silk Route" opened up between Chinese-controlled Jiaozhi (centred in modern Vietnam, near Hanoi) probably by the 1st century. It extended, via ports on the coasts of India and Sri Lanka, all the way to Roman-controlled ports in Egypt and the Nabataean territories on the northeastern coast of the Red Sea.

With the Silk Route there was enormous technological transfer to the West.. with Xi'an being what many consider to be the starting point of the Silk Route.

The period of the High Middle Ages in Europe and East Asia saw major technological advances, including the diffusion through the Silk Road of the precursor to movable type printing, gunpowder, the astrolabe, and the compass.

Large Chinese junks were also observed by these travelers and may have provided impetus to develop larger ships in Europe.

The Japanese built their ancient capitals, Heijokyo (today's Nara) and later Heian-Kyo or Kyoto, modelled after Chang'an in a more modest scale yet was never fortified.The modern Kyoto still retains some characteristics of Sui-Tang Chang'an. Similarly, the Korean Silla dynasty modeled their capital of Gyeongju after the Chinese capital.

During the Tang Dynasty, Japanese overseas students arrived in Chang'an to study the ways of the Tang dynasty. When they went back to Japan, they brought with them books, religion, technologies, and Chinese characters (on which Japanese characters are based). Some Japanese even lived out their lives in Chang'an. Following the Japanese envoys was Kukai (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C5%ABkai) who came to Chang'an in 804; he first stayed in the Ximing Temple and later followed Monk Huiguo of the Blue Dragon Temple to study Esoteric Buddhism. He returned to Japan in 806 after he had finished his studies and established the True Word Sect of Buddhism in Japan and finally became a great master in establishing the "Eastern Esotericism".


It is a fact that Xi'an was at least as influential as Rome during its peak period and it's legacy remains deeply enshrined in the Eastern world, despite a lack of recognition in the Western world.
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