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Old March 25th, 2008, 05:03 AM   #281
Mahratta
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Originally Posted by Wuppeltje View Post
But are these similarities all coming from Xi'an?

Rome was not just the capital of the Roman Empire, all the other cities were nothing compared to Rome in it's empire. And the influence of Rome was far beyond the borders of the empire. Rome is considered as the first city with more than 1 million inhabitants. No city came close in the western world for a very long time, not only in seize, but also not in political, economical, and military power.

A lot of the infrastructure build by Rome was still in use in the Middle Ages, long after the fall of Rome. In the rule of law in many countries there are a lot of traces to Rome. In most written languages that western countries have there are still all kind of words that are directly from Latin. We use a Roman alphabet in most western countries. Roman numbers aren't really in use anymore, you can still find buildings in a lot of countries and on all continents with Roman numbers on it.

While other cities are more important than Rome nowadays, Rome itself is still important for a major part of the world (especially religion).

What many don't realize is that China and the Sinosphere and India and the corresponding Indosphere were, for most of history, more significant than Europe both economically and population wise. Therefore the cities with influence in China like Xi'an and the cities in India like Benares and Delhi hold as much, if not more influence than Rome to a huge amount of the world.
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Old March 25th, 2008, 06:02 AM   #282
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The silk route, was without doubt very important. But Xi'an/Chang'an was 1 of the places that were important on that route for Europe.

In history lessons in The Netherlands Rome is important. Not because it was just a very important city, but because it influenced us a lot in different ways. For more than a thousand years after the heyday of Rome there wasn't a city in Europe close to the old influence of Rome. The Middle Ages were a huge step back in civilization here. Europe was gaining power again after "rediscovering" Rome and gaining Arabic and Chinese technology, collecting them and making their own inventions. I don't have the feeling that China had such a downfall of civilization after the heyday of Xi'an/Chang'an. Of course there were downfalls, but so dramatic?

The economical power and population in the past wasn't that important, because it was very regional for a long time. Huge civilizations hardly knew (or were forgotten) each other for a long time. China has now far more influence on Europe and visa versa than in the past. With the European imperialism influence started for the first time on global scale.

Last edited by Wuppeltje; March 25th, 2008 at 06:23 AM.
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Old April 21st, 2008, 06:56 PM   #283
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Eridu, Uruk and Ur. The first cities in human history (today's Iraq)
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Old April 27th, 2008, 01:07 PM   #284
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The most important city in Europe -and known al over the world- is without a doubt Paris. Its splendor is still preserved today and reflect more than 2000 years of history. It has ever been the center of the world intelectual think, home of the philosophy of lights that spread all over the world to bring human right, laicité,democracy, the encyclopaedia .... It used to be at the center of a hudge empire, and that is perhaps Paris has the biggest museums in the world, including the Louvres. The Eiffel tower reflect the powerfull industry of the 19 century, at the time of the industrial revolution. Paris hadthe hudge luck not being destroyed in second world war, because the german general who was in charge of the city's governance did not execute hitler's order to destroy the city before German's retreat from the country ... just because he felt in love with Paris ! Thanks to this guy the city has conserved its intemporal splendor.
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Old April 29th, 2008, 09:24 AM   #285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wuppeltje View Post
The silk route, was without doubt very important. But Xi'an/Chang'an was 1 of the places that were important on that route for Europe.

In history lessons in The Netherlands Rome is important. Not because it was just a very important city, but because it influenced us a lot in different ways. For more than a thousand years after the heyday of Rome there wasn't a city in Europe close to the old influence of Rome. The Middle Ages were a huge step back in civilization here. Europe was gaining power again after "rediscovering" Rome and gaining Arabic and Chinese technology, collecting them and making their own inventions. I don't have the feeling that China had such a downfall of civilization after the heyday of Xi'an/Chang'an. Of course there were downfalls, but so dramatic?

The economical power and population in the past wasn't that important, because it was very regional for a long time. Huge civilizations hardly knew (or were forgotten) each other for a long time. China has now far more influence on Europe and visa versa than in the past. With the European imperialism influence started for the first time on global scale.
Xian has historically been the capital of imperial China, only to change in the last few centuries of imperial rule as the northern tribes invaded . To settle the instability in the north, the capital moved to Beijing. I don't think China went through the dramatic rise and fall of its big cities the way Europeans went through.
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Old May 13th, 2008, 02:40 PM   #286
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most historic city?? bruges
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Old May 13th, 2008, 07:20 PM   #287
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athens, rome and istanbul (Byzantium these times) used to be the main powers of civilization, science and culture in the western civilization. also egypt used to be a super power in ancient years. the eastern civilization had no connection to the western one. they didnt even know about the existence of each other. i believ that athens is the most historical city cause its the mother of writing, theater, and democracy!
this is the first theater in the western world ever, and its located in the center of athens, under the acropolis. here you are. the dionysos theater:


btw... athens today is the city with the biggest nuber of theater stages in europe (i'm not sure about the world, so i ll say europe) with more than 150 theaters and more than 200 play per year.

i vote for athens
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Old May 13th, 2008, 07:59 PM   #288
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wuppeltje View Post
I would say Rome.

Rome had and still has so many influence on western societies. Many western figures in the past wanted to have a little bit of the old glory of the Roman Empire. A lot of famous buildings in western countries are influenced by old buildings in Rome.
For example, the people of Amsterdam gave their townhall in their Golden Age a Rome feel, especially on the inside.



Rome not only had the Roman Empire, but also had and still has the Vatican. Especially in the middle ages this was a very influential and powerful institution.

There are a lot of other historical cities, but none of them come really close the Rome. Asian cities had a lot of regional influence and still have, but I don't sense a lot of influence of Chinese cities towards Japan or India. For me buildings such as the United States Capitol says a lot of the influence of the old Rome. It is easy to spot something directly to Rome in many countries, while this less direct with other historical cities.

On other parts Rome might be less different with other historical cities, but on every aspect it can compared with the best.
rome is openly influented if not just based on the greek civilization
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Old May 14th, 2008, 12:04 AM   #289
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old history is not better than modern history

therefore:

- Amsterdam
- Berlin
- Venice
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Old May 14th, 2008, 12:38 AM   #290
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yes you are right but the whole history is absolutely based on the older one
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Old May 14th, 2008, 02:23 AM   #291
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpey View Post
old history is not better than modern history

therefore:

- Amsterdam
- Berlin
- Venice
you sure need to travel more! (berlin??)

-rome, bruges,brussels, praghue, ghent, athens, venice, lille...
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Old May 14th, 2008, 03:28 AM   #292
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Bruges? Ghent?

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Old May 14th, 2008, 12:50 PM   #293
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovem View Post
rome is openly influented if not just based on the greek civilization
Very true, in fact I can't decide between Rome and Athens.
But what the Romans did, it was accepting the Greek culture as a part of their culture, and spreading it into Europe.

I think Rome and Athens represent basically the same civilization.
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Old May 14th, 2008, 02:19 PM   #294
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Damascus, Jerusalem, Athens, Rome
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Old May 14th, 2008, 05:51 PM   #295
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Rome, just because it has remained internationally influential up to the present day, paired with it's rich history
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Old May 14th, 2008, 06:36 PM   #296
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaitreyaSequeira View Post
Bruges? Ghent?

hahahahaha MUMBAI guy, you are sure NOT traveling

Bruges: VENICE of the north, it's all from the middle ages
THE HOLE OLD CITY IS PROTECTED BY UNESCO


(a very little exapmle)
ghent the same:


my advice to you:
do some research before you post something
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Old May 14th, 2008, 07:07 PM   #297
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it's all from the middle ages
...which isnīt old compared with Damascus, Jerusalem, Athens, Rome and many other ancient citys.
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Old May 14th, 2008, 08:59 PM   #298
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Quote:
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...which isnīt old compared with Damascus, Jerusalem, Athens, Rome and many other ancient citys.

damascus(??) maybe not that old as rome, buth this topic is about "most historical city" = a city that hasn't much changed in the 21 century,
this is not the "oldest city of the world" topic
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Old May 14th, 2008, 11:03 PM   #299
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freeksregistration View Post
hahahahaha MUMBAI guy, you are sure NOT traveling

my advice to you:
do some research before you post something
Firstly - I am a TORONTO guy, I live in Toronto.

Nice argument. Pass off anyone who criticizes your petty nationalism as 'untraveled.'
Dude, I have lived in Belgium (Ekeren. which is from the 1100s, btw) and I can tell you that the only Belgian city I can consider being considerable is Brussels / Bruxelles.

Quote:
damascus(??) maybe not that old as rome, buth this topic is about "most historical city" = a city that hasn't much changed in the 21 century,
this is not the "oldest city of the world" topic
No, the topic is about the city with the most historical significance / historical areas. You don't think Damascus is historical? Why? Because it isn't in Europe?

Leave your damn country and visit the world - or maybe leave your damn closed mental space and think about other parts of the world - maybe Middle East, Africa, or Asia?

I can tell you that cities like Bruges are a dime a dozen all around Europe, India, China, Iran, etc. The UNESCO World heritage sites need a big remake - probably compiled by a whole bunch of folks like you with a few 'Orientalists' thrown in for good measure.

My list - a few for each sphere of influence, I can't mix apples with oranges

Eurosphere - Rome, Athens, Istanbul / Constantinople, Paris, Moscow, London, Grenada
Islamosphere - Baghdad, Cairo, Damascus, Jerusalem, Mekkah, Istanbul / Constantinople
Persosphere - Samarqand, Tehran, Isfahan, Kabul, Fars Province (Shiraz, Persepolis)
Indosphere - Delhi, Benares, Angkor, Ayathuyya, Patna (Pataliputra), Lucknow, Lahore
Sinosphere - Beijing, Kyoto, X'ian, Chengdu, Hangzhou, Nanjing, Kaifeng
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Last edited by Mahratta; May 14th, 2008 at 11:18 PM.
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Old May 15th, 2008, 06:17 AM   #300
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I live in belgium for only 8 years,
first of all bruges is older then Brussels, and what are you saying, there are a dozen cities like bruges, oh yes that's why there that many tourists, because they can choose between a dozen cities that all are simular, and there are also a dozen amsterdam's and venices..... the list of unesco is fine, about damascus your wright ( mistake), I'm not a nationalist buth when you visiting bruges, ghent ..what ever it's unic ( also cities out of europ), you think only cities as old as rome, beijing.... are historical?? so a city of 1000years isn't historical. me? a orientalists?? ha! like what ever..

Last edited by freeksregistration; May 15th, 2008 at 06:25 AM.
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