DISCUSS: Most Historic City

[Mosaic]

What about Cairo, Egypt.^. One of the most historical cities on Earth. There are just a few hitorical sites remains until today but as we all know this city is extremely old.

[Manila-X]

Cairo can be among the most historical but not the most historical. It's like how about Baghdad?

[harvesterofsorrows]

Tenochitlan, Mexico.

[Daniel_Portugal]

Top 10

1 - Athens
2 - Bagdad (some stupid americans destroyed it.. but they'll pay for that)
3 - Rome
4 - Lisbon
5 - Cairo
6 - Beijing
7 - London
8 - Moscow
9 - Madrid
10 - Paris

[_00_deathscar]

Paris should be higher than Madrid - if only for it's political importance during that era.

[UrbanQuest]

Folks,

How are we defining a historical city? I am not really sure whether we are all on the same page.
First and foremost one thing I am clear is that we are talking of city that exists as of today

So when we say “historical city” do we mean...

• the oldest city
  the city’s contribution to world affairs / history
  the city’s current popularity
  the city’s popularity during it’s peak glory time
  the city’s importance in its own country’s history
  the number of historical and archeological monuments it had/still has
  the city’s influence or rule over large territories (again during it’s peak glory)

Any of the above would be wrong answer, because all cities in the world would fall in atleast one of the categories

All of the above would again be wrong answer, because none of the cities in the world could be considered then.

Unless there is a common parameter to judge, it’s just your city against mine (Not necessarily the city where I am staying)

[persian]

Originally Posted by UrbanQuest

Folks,

How are we defining a historical city? I am not really sure whether we are all on the same page.
First and foremost one thing I am clear is that we are talking of city that exists as of today

So when we say “historical city” do we mean...

• the oldest city
  the city’s contribution to world affairs / history
  the city’s current popularity
  the city’s popularity during it’s peak glory time
  the city’s importance in its own country’s history
  the number of historical and archeological monuments it had/still has
  the city’s influence or rule over large territories (again during it’s peak glory)

Any of the above would be wrong answer, because all cities in the world would fall in atleast one of the categories

All of the above would again be wrong answer, because none of the cities in the world could be considered then.

Unless there is a common parameter to judge, it’s just your city against mine (Not necessarily the city where I am staying)

true

[Curry4Ever]

Chennai, Madurai, Kanchipuram, Varanasi(Benaras), Kolkata, Delhi, Agra, Beijing and some places in europe

[Metropolitan]

Originally Posted by Daniel_Portugal

Top 10

1 - Athens
2 - Bagdad (some stupid americans destroyed it.. but they'll pay for that)
3 - Rome
4 - Lisbon
5 - Cairo
6 - Beijing
7 - London
8 - Moscow
9 - Madrid
10 - Paris

That's a joke right ?

Paris is a lot more historical than Moscow, Madrid, London and Lisbon.

Paris has been founded by the Parisii celtic tribe around the 4th century before Christ and became Roman in 52 BC. We can find a Roman arena (Arènes de Lutèce, 1st Century), Roman Thermae (Thermes de Cluny, 2nd Century), and a former Roman Cardo (Rue Saint-Jacques). Afterwards, we can find buildings from every periods in History in France. The medieval times with its famous churches and monuments such as Saint-Germain-des-Près (6th Century), Saint-Julien-le-Pauvre (10th Century), Notre-Dame-de-Paris (12th Century), Conciergerie (13th century) or the Sainte-Chapelle (13th Century). The Renaissance with the Hôtel de Ville (16th Century) or the Louvre (16th Century) ; The classical period with Palace of Versailles (17th Century), the Invalides (17th Century), the Palais Boubon (18th) where lies today's French National Assembly. The 19th century also with the Arc de Triomphe, the Grand and Petit Palais, the Eiffel Tower, the Opéra Garnier, Haussmann Buildings everywhere. The 20th Century with the Sacré Coeur church, the Pompidou Center, the Bastille Opera, La Défense business district.

Well to put it in a nutshell, Rome or Constantinople have by far a longer History than Paris, but certainly not Moscow, Madrid, Lisbon or London. I mean come on ! When the Abbay of Saint-Germain-des-Prés was built in the 6th Century, London was a no man's land, the area was not even inhabitated !

[wjfox]

As has been explained several dozen times on this thread already, a city doesn't have to be "older" to have a "greater" history.

[Metropolitan]

Originally Posted by wjfox2002

As has been explained several dozen times on this thread already, a city doesn't have to be "older" to have a "greater" history.

Granted. But Moscow, Madrid, London and Lisbon doesn't have a "greater" History than Paris. Paris has been a lot more influential during a lot longer period than those cities.

Once again, there are numerous cities which are "more Historical" than Paris : Rome and Istanbul are good example, but Xi'an in China is another good one.
However, I wouldn't count Athens in those, mainly because Athens has considerably lost in influence once Constantinople has been founded. As for Egypt, I would consider Alexandria as the most "Historical" city, not Cairo.

[wjfox]

Originally Posted by Metropolitan

Paris has been a lot more influential during a lot longer period than those cities.

London was the capital of the British Empire - the largest and most widespread empire in history, which at its peak held sway over more than a quarter of the world's population! London was at the centre of the spread of the world's first global language: the English language.

[Krazy]

Tough to say between Athens, Rome, Cairo and Damascus

[Metropolitan]

Originally Posted by wjfox2002

London was the capital of the British Empire - the largest and most widespread empire in history, which at its peak held sway over more than a quarter of the world's population! London was at the centre of the spread of the world's first global language: the English language.

Oh wonderful... so what ?

Paris was the capital of the French Empire and there are hundreds of millions of French speakers in the world. Check a bit your History, London was dominated by the French during a large part of the Middle Age and from the 17th to 19th century the international language was French. Wonderful !

When you want to define the most "historical" city, international influence is only important on the long run. Rome has been the capital city of the Roman Empire, then it became the Capital of the Christian World, then it became the capital of Italy. Throughout its whole History, from 200 BC to 2000 AD, Rome has always been influential. When you walk in the streets of Rome, it's common to see a building from the Ancient Times nearby a building from the Medieval times nearby a building from the 19th century nearby a modern building.

I'm considerably less impressed by the History of London, Moscow, Madrid or Lisbon than by the History of Rome or Constantinople. As for Paris, it's been a lot longer time that it's been an influential center than your beloved London which you see as the current capital of the world if I've understood well your point in the other thread about the 150m tower which may be built in London.
__________________
Le renouveau arrive à la Défense !

[UrbanQuest]

There you go...

Its now become a "Your city vs mine" contest...

have fun and enjoy....

[UrbanQuest]

By the way folks, have the two of you considered the fact that there exists life beyond London and Paris.

There are cities in existence in India and China even today which probably existed long before even a proper village came up in Europe! And their importance in world history cannot be ignored simply because it didn't happen in the last 400 years...

I don’t believe London or Paris had any importance in world history other than the last 400 years. And interestingly World history is lot older than that!

Finally I don't agree that there can ever be a city 'Most Historical'. Some of the key cities as put up earlier in this thread had a pivotal role to play in shaping world history at some point in time. Maybe 'Historical importance of your city' would have been a better title.

As I said earlier, if you don't have a parameter to measure, you will only have an argument and never a consensus.

[wjfox]

If you must know, I actually chose Rome when it came to the final voting (go and check the thread in the archive if you don't believe me), I also put Athens in 2nd place, plus I acknowledge there are cities in Asia with incredibly long and fascinating histories.

I'm not saying London is #1... but it could certainly be considered a very "historical" city, and I feel the need to defend it on here because there are people who are incredibly ignorant of certain facts, who seem to feel that London is lacking in history somewhat, or that it's somehow a "young" city, or that certain events need to have occured between 4,000 and 8,000 years ago in order for a city to be considered "historical".

Go and read Peter Ackroyd's London: The Biography and you'll appreciate the amazing history of London.

[Metropolitan]

Originally Posted by UrbanQuest

By the way folks, have the two of you considered the fact that there exists life beyond London and Paris.

There are cities in existence in India and China even today which probably existed long before even a proper village came up in Europe! And their importance in world history cannot be ignored simply because it didn't happen in the last 400 years...

I don’t believe London or Paris had any importance in world history other than the last 400 years. And interestingly World history is lot older than that!

Finally I don't agree that there can ever be a city 'Most Historical'. Some of the key cities as put up earlier in this thread had a pivotal role to play in shaping world history at some point in time. Maybe 'Historical importance of your city' would have been a better title.

As I said earlier, if you don't have a parameter to measure, you will only have an argument and never a consensus.

That comment is utterly irrelevant. The post I've constantly repeated was that Rome, Constantinople, Alexandria, Xi'an and many other Asian cities benefits from a far richer History than Madrid, Paris, London, Moscow or Lisbon. True I've said that it was idiotic to rank Paris behind Madrid, London, Moscow and Lisbon, but I've never considered Paris as even close to the cities benefitting from the richest Histories.

[UrbanQuest]

Allright... my apologies. Point taken. Nothing personal about that.

And yes, you are right in saying that in terms of a rich histoy, cities like Rome, Alexandria and Athens stand out.

India too has a rich history and many Indian cities still stand from the BC era. And since India does not have a history of aquiring lands, her history records are not as far spread and known as European history. Not many in the west are even aware of any Indian History or her cities. And the same goes for the chinese and korean history.

When it comes to historical cities, the South Americans too had a rich and vibrant culture all through time. They have probably built cities and structures which would take a mammoth effort to build even with today's standards.

[R.E-S]

Guys isn't Beirut the most historic city in the world? National Geography even
agreed.

Beirut stands on the site of a very ancient settlement going back at least 5,000 years. Its name appeared in cuneiform inscriptions as early as the 14th century B.C.In the first century B.C., Berytus, as it was then called, became a Roman Colony and under Roman rule was the seat of a famous Law school which continued into the Byzantine era.But the power and the glory of Berytus were destroyed by a triple catastrophe of earthquake, tidal wave and fire in 551 A.D. In the following century Arab Muslim forces took the city and in 1110 it fell into the Crusaders. Beirut remained in Crusader hands until 1291 when it was conquered by the Mamlukes. Ottoman rule began in 1516, continuing for 400 years later until the defeat of the Turks in World War I.
The French Mandate Period followed and in 1943 Lebanon gained its independence.Beneath the ruined downtown area, which is under reconstruction, lie the remains of Ottoman, Mamluke, Crusader, Abbassid, Omayyad, Byzantine, Roman, Persian, Phoenician and Canaanite Beirut. With luck, a good portion of Beirut's history will be uncovered before reconstruction is complete.Beginning in 1993, archaeologists and builders began cooperating on just such a project. Teams from Lebanese and foreign institutions have found significant remains from each of Beirut's historical periods. All discoveries are being carefully recorded and many will be preserved

This was recently discovered with thanks to the Beirut reconstruction. Beirut
sits on the crossroad of three continent and it was the main sea port in the
whole world. Phoenicians were the first to build boats and their main port was
Byblos, right on top of Beirut. The Bible derived it's name from Byblos and this
was the city that invented the alphabets. ''Byblos, north of Beirut, is the
world’s oldest, continuously inhabited cities. Excavations have proven that
people were living there 8,000 years ago. And not forgetting Tyros, Baalbeck
and the mother city of the phoenicians, Sidon. Also we could not forget
Beirut, the world's largest urban archaeological excavations on Earth!

Here is Baalbeck, Temple of Bacchus.




Temple of Jupiter (look at the person in front of the second column bottom, this shows you how immense they really are...and not forgetting that this was built some 3000 years ago!!!







Tyros


Byblos



Lebanon has a lot of History, but no one yet knows about it.