Manchester University redevelopments! - Page 4

Manchester Planner · October 23rd, 2005, 05:06 PM

They're doing loads of building work around the Planning Department's building. On the Cambridge Street side we have a new multi-storey car park going up and on the Oxford Road side we have the new humanities building about to start. Soon we'll be encapsulated in a maze of University buildings! It wasn't long ago that my department's building was alone in the middle of a park...

Farsight · October 23rd, 2005, 07:09 PM

That sounds a little sad, Manchester Planner. I remember reading about some kind of student protest about an environment building to be built on open green space. Do you know if this is the same thing? And in your opinion will there still be enough open space on campus?

I feel cagey about buildings covering open space because once its built on you just never get it back. In my experience it happens too much with lower rise buildings, which tend to fill their entire plot and have a very urbanising effect somewhat contrary to the vision.

liverpolitan · October 23rd, 2005, 07:18 PM

I was really sad to see the Maths building last week, I know it had its own thread but - as with Birmingham library - it's hard to believe that these acts of vandalism will actually happen until you see them. A tragedy for modern architecture in Britain. So much of modern university estates is bland and generic, it's almost criminal to allow them to destroy the few architectural gems they are entrusted with.

Farsight · October 23rd, 2005, 09:30 PM

I'll be interested to see if the demolition of the Maths Tower is seen as vandalism in years to come. How will it be judged by posterity?

Personally I envisage people in the future will look at a picture of the Maths Tower, then look at what replaced it. And then they'll say What were they thinking? I would however in all sincerity like to be wrong on this. I really would. I want better buildings, but I'm older and more cynical than some.

Sigh. I've seen it all before I'm afraid. People knock down some heap-of-shit building and replace it with something that's the best thing since sliced bread because now we know better.

Then give it a few years and different people are calling the replacement a heap of shit and yep, now we know better.

Manchester Planner · October 23rd, 2005, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Farsight

That sounds a little sad, Manchester Planner. I remember reading about some kind of student protest about an environment building to be built on open green space. Do you know if this is the same thing? And in your opinion will there still be enough open space on campus?

I feel cagey about buildings covering open space because once its built on you just never get it back. In my experience it happens too much with lower rise buildings, which tend to fill their entire plot and have a very urbanising effect somewhat contrary to the vision.

The campus is getting rather crowded and it is a shame the open space is going. On the other hand the University is growing and this can only be good for the city as a whole!

SleepyOne · October 23rd, 2005, 10:05 PM

The point about the open space on the campus is that a lot of it at present is poor quality and under utilised. They are more gaps between buildings than meaningful spaces with an intended use.

One of the great benefits of Project Unity is that the whole campus will be properly masterplanned for the first time. Spaces will be rationalised but properly landscaped and the positioning and design of new buildings should mean there is greater useable public space and better pedestrian routes such as the one being constructed through from Oxford Rd to Upper Brook St.

As for the Maths building well it seems to gain friends because of its undoubted distinctive design. There are so many parallels to the Jarvis. Distinctive, unusual, characterful building but aparently floored. Neither building relating very well at all to adjacent buildings, streets and spaces. They seem to have an alien presence within their environment and unfortunately for Maths, also seems to present insurmountable problems to adapt.

Planner - was the little picture Farsight posted on the previous page the Humanities block? Also do we hold any hopes for a decent looking car park?

Farsight · October 23rd, 2005, 10:35 PM

SleepyOne: Poor quality has got to be contemptuous when used as an excuse to do away with open space. What it means is I can deliberately neglect my garden, then because it's "poor quality", I can build all over it.

I sincerely hope the campus ends up beautiful, but the "poor quality" argument for doing away with open space sounds like line a line to feed the mugs, a sop. It does not reassure.

SleepyOne · October 23rd, 2005, 10:43 PM

Yet more misrepresentation Farsight.

Read the whole post. "Poor quality" was clarified thus:

They are more gaps between buildings than meaningful spaces with an intended use.

This is the natural outcome with piecemeal development over a long period - you get gaps rather than landscaped public spaces indended as such.

It surely wasn't too much to ask you to refer my second paragraph back to my first which would have added further clarification to my assertion that the present spaces are of "poor quality":

One of the great benefits of Project Unity is that the whole campus will be properly masterplanned for the first time. Spaces will be rationalised but properly landscaped and the positioning and design of new buildings should mean there is greater useable public space and better pedestrian routes such as the one being constructed through from Oxford Rd to Upper Brook St.

Farsight · October 23rd, 2005, 10:55 PM

No SleepyOne. "Poor quality" used to describe open spaces that have been deliberately neglected so they can be built over, that's misrepresentation. You said the same about Piccadilly Gardens, remember? No? Did you also forget about the environment building and the student protest because it was going on greensward, or did I misrepresent that too?

Gotta go.

SleepyOne · October 23rd, 2005, 11:08 PM

Quote:

No SleepyOne. "Poor quality" used to describe open spaces that have been deliberately neglected so they can be built over, that's misrepresentation.

- What makes you think the spaces have been "deliberately" neglected. That's one controversial accusation. Where is your evidence to back it up?

- You say "poor quality" is a misrepresentation? Misrepresentation of what? Misrepresentation of how they might or might not have deteriorated over time? Well Im sorry but I never posted on this issue as I have no knowledge of it.

I posted an opinion on how the spaces are "poor quality" owing to the piece meal development of the campus rendering the spaces as "gaps" rather than meaningful, intended useable spaces. Clear now?

Quote:

You said the same about Piccadilly Gardens, remember? No?

Piccadilly Gardens did come about by a similar process, namely through the demolition of the old Infirmiary on the site after they were bombed in the war rather than a planned space through the design and spacing of buildings. So yes, there are parallels to be drawn. The inherent character and ultimately, the success of a space is dependent to a large degree on the surrounding buildings which define it. So yes in a sense it is similar scenario.

Quote:

Did you also forget about the environment building and the student protest because it was going on greensward, or did I misrepresent that too?

I didnt mention these issues. Why bring them up? Why would you be misrepresenting something I didnt bring up? My point about planned, useable spaces as opposed to gaps is relevant to this protest though.

SleepyOne · October 23rd, 2005, 11:10 PM

The point about the open space on the campus is that a lot of it at present is poor quality and under utilised. They are more gaps between buildings than meaningful spaces with an intended use.

One of the great benefits of Project Unity is that the whole campus will be properly masterplanned for the first time. Spaces will be rationalised but properly landscaped and the positioning and design of new buildings should mean there is greater useable public space and better pedestrian routes such as the one being constructed through from Oxford Rd to Upper Brook St.

As for the Maths building well it seems to gain friends because of its undoubted distinctive design. There are so many parallels to the Jarvis. Distinctive, unusual, characterful building but aparently floored. Neither building relating very well at all to adjacent buildings, streets and spaces. They seem to have an alien presence within their environment and unfortunately for Maths, also seems to present insurmountable problems to adapt.

Planner - was the little picture Farsight posted on the previous page the Humanities block? Also do we hold any hopes for a decent looking car park?

Manchester Planner · October 24th, 2005, 01:36 AM

The car park is nearly finished - you can visit it if you want..

It's on Higher Cambridge Street.

As for the new humanities block being built near my department, I'm not sure what it will look like. Sorry.

Farsight · October 24th, 2005, 10:18 AM

"Poor Quality" parkland aside, I'd like to a realistic render of this lecture theatre and Student and Nursing centre. What materials and colours will be used? Will the lecture theatre present a blank face to Oxford Road, or will there be windows? IMHO the cylindrical lecture theatre doesn't tie in with the angular buildings behind, which maybe look a bit sixties vanilla. I like the way the Central Library and Town Hall Extension meet with a matching curve, and wonder why this doesn't.

dgnr8 · October 24th, 2005, 01:15 PM

It's because Manchester University hate you.

jrb · October 24th, 2005, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Farsight

"Poor Quality" parkland aside, I'd like to a realistic render of this lecture theatre and Student and Nursing centre. What materials and colours will be used? Will the lecture theatre present a blank face to Oxford Road, or will there be windows? IMHO the cylindrical lecture theatre doesn't tie in with the angular buildings behind, which maybe look a bit sixties vanilla. I like the way the Central Library and Town Hall Extension meet with a matching curve, and wonder why this doesn't.

Farsight!

Put a side the buildings! This lecture theatre will hold 1000 people! Probably one of the biggest conference/lecture theatres in th UK! This will be used for important international and national conferences! The University will make some serious money out of it! Manchester will also reap financial rewards aswell! (hotels, etc, etc) Look at the size of it!

Farsight · October 24th, 2005, 02:15 PM

jrb: I have to confess I find it a bit, um, tough putting aside the buildings!

I didn't think they'd be using this lecture theatre for money-making conferences and stuff. Any links or pointers you can think of telling me more will be gratefully received.

SleepyOne · October 24th, 2005, 08:49 PM

jrb - buildings are important thats why we're all here. Who cares if its the biggest such lecture theater in the UK (not sure where you've got that one by the way). What matters is that it fulfills its purpose and remains a great looking building, that enhances the expereience on the campus for many years to come.

Personally I think this is a really promising render of what could be a great building. I love the variety of shapes and masses but they all seem to be tied together extremely well. In the case of the cylindrical part fronting Oxford Rd there is what appears to be a sort of squaring-the-circle cover on the opposite side of the building to the viewpoint. The lowlevel atrium also appears to tie in the flat facade witht he round one.

This building, despite its height but by virtue of its design will have great presence on Oxford Rd IMO.

jrb · October 24th, 2005, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SleepyOne

jrb - buildings are important thats why we're all here. Who cares if its the biggest such lecture theater in the UK (not sure where you've got that one by the way). What matters is that it fulfills its purpose and remains a great looking building, that enhances the expereience on the campus for many years to come.

Personally I think this is a really promising render of what could be a great building. I love the variety of shapes and masses but they all seem to be tied together extremely well. In the case of the cylindrical part fronting Oxford Rd there is what appears to be a sort of squaring-the-circle cover on the opposite side of the building to the viewpoint. The lowlevel atrium also appears to tie in the flat facade witht he round one.

This building, despite its height but by virtue of its design will have great presence on Oxford Rd IMO.

Oh Sleepy you do love a sword fight!

I do actually like the building and agree with what your saying! However, the fact that it will be one of the biggest lecture theaters in the UK is very important, not only for the Univesity, but for Manchester aswell! No point in having a nice building that turns out to be a white elephant!

SleepyOne · October 24th, 2005, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Oh Sleepy you do love a sword fight!

Sorry! Just can't help myself sometimes.

Quote:

I do actually like the building and agree with what your saying! However, the fact that it will be one of the biggest lecture theaters in the UK is very important, not only for the Univesity, but for Manchester aswell! No point in having a nice building that turns out to be a white elephant!

Well if that is true, then that is a great bonus too I guess.

jrb · October 24th, 2005, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SleepyOne

Sorry! Just can't help myself sometimes.

Well if that is true, then that is a great bonus too I guess.

Can't remember where I read it? I'm 99.9% sure it will be able to hold up to 1000 people!

It does look huge on the rendering/model!

October 23rd, 2005, 07:18 PM	#63
liverpolitan Registered User Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 6,417 Likes (Received): 0	I was really sad to see the Maths building last week, I know it had its own thread but - as with Birmingham library - it's hard to believe that these acts of vandalism will actually happen until you see them. A tragedy for modern architecture in Britain. So much of modern university estates is bland and generic, it's almost criminal to allow them to destroy the few architectural gems they are entrusted with. __________________ Warrington - A Growth Point in Liverpool City Region

October 23rd, 2005, 10:43 PM	#68
SleepyOne Registered User Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 3,091 Likes (Received): 0	Yet more misrepresentation Farsight. Read the whole post. "Poor quality" was clarified thus: They are more gaps between buildings than meaningful spaces with an intended use. This is the natural outcome with piecemeal development over a long period - you get gaps rather than landscaped public spaces indended as such. It surely wasn't too much to ask you to refer my second paragraph back to my first which would have added further clarification to my assertion that the present spaces are of "poor quality": One of the great benefits of Project Unity is that the whole campus will be properly masterplanned for the first time. Spaces will be rationalised but properly landscaped and the positioning and design of new buildings should mean there is greater useable public space and better pedestrian routes such as the one being constructed through from Oxford Rd to Upper Brook St.

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October 23rd, 2005, 05:06 PM	#61
Manchester Planner Chief Bureaucrat Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 6,848 Likes (Received): 1	They're doing loads of building work around the Planning Department's building. On the Cambridge Street side we have a new multi-storey car park going up and on the Oxford Road side we have the new humanities building about to start. Soon we'll be encapsulated in a maze of University buildings! It wasn't long ago that my department's building was alone in the middle of a park...

October 23rd, 2005, 07:09 PM	#62
Farsight Registered User Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 2,997 Likes (Received): 24	That sounds a little sad, Manchester Planner. I remember reading about some kind of student protest about an environment building to be built on open green space. Do you know if this is the same thing? And in your opinion will there still be enough open space on campus? I feel cagey about buildings covering open space because once its built on you just never get it back. In my experience it happens too much with lower rise buildings, which tend to fill their entire plot and have a very urbanising effect somewhat contrary to the vision.

October 23rd, 2005, 09:30 PM	#64
Farsight Registered User Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 2,997 Likes (Received): 24	I'll be interested to see if the demolition of the Maths Tower is seen as vandalism in years to come. How will it be judged by posterity? Personally I envisage people in the future will look at a picture of the Maths Tower, then look at what replaced it. And then they'll say What were they thinking? I would however in all sincerity like to be wrong on this. I really would. I want better buildings, but I'm older and more cynical than some. Sigh. I've seen it all before I'm afraid. People knock down some heap-of-shit building and replace it with something that's the best thing since sliced bread because now we know better. Then give it a few years and different people are calling the replacement a heap of shit and yep, now we know better.

October 23rd, 2005, 10:05 PM	#66
SleepyOne Registered User Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 3,091 Likes (Received): 0	The point about the open space on the campus is that a lot of it at present is poor quality and under utilised. They are more gaps between buildings than meaningful spaces with an intended use. One of the great benefits of Project Unity is that the whole campus will be properly masterplanned for the first time. Spaces will be rationalised but properly landscaped and the positioning and design of new buildings should mean there is greater useable public space and better pedestrian routes such as the one being constructed through from Oxford Rd to Upper Brook St. As for the Maths building well it seems to gain friends because of its undoubted distinctive design. There are so many parallels to the Jarvis. Distinctive, unusual, characterful building but aparently floored. Neither building relating very well at all to adjacent buildings, streets and spaces. They seem to have an alien presence within their environment and unfortunately for Maths, also seems to present insurmountable problems to adapt. Planner - was the little picture Farsight posted on the previous page the Humanities block? Also do we hold any hopes for a decent looking car park?

October 23rd, 2005, 10:35 PM	#67
Farsight Registered User Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 2,997 Likes (Received): 24	SleepyOne: Poor quality has got to be contemptuous when used as an excuse to do away with open space. What it means is I can deliberately neglect my garden, then because it's "poor quality", I can build all over it. I sincerely hope the campus ends up beautiful, but the "poor quality" argument for doing away with open space sounds like line a line to feed the mugs, a sop. It does not reassure.

October 23rd, 2005, 10:55 PM	#69
Farsight Registered User Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 2,997 Likes (Received): 24	No SleepyOne. "Poor quality" used to describe open spaces that have been deliberately neglected so they can be built over, that's misrepresentation. You said the same about Piccadilly Gardens, remember? No? Did you also forget about the environment building and the student protest because it was going on greensward, or did I misrepresent that too? Gotta go.

October 23rd, 2005, 11:10 PM	#71
SleepyOne Registered User Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 3,091 Likes (Received): 0	The point about the open space on the campus is that a lot of it at present is poor quality and under utilised. They are more gaps between buildings than meaningful spaces with an intended use. One of the great benefits of Project Unity is that the whole campus will be properly masterplanned for the first time. Spaces will be rationalised but properly landscaped and the positioning and design of new buildings should mean there is greater useable public space and better pedestrian routes such as the one being constructed through from Oxford Rd to Upper Brook St. As for the Maths building well it seems to gain friends because of its undoubted distinctive design. There are so many parallels to the Jarvis. Distinctive, unusual, characterful building but aparently floored. Neither building relating very well at all to adjacent buildings, streets and spaces. They seem to have an alien presence within their environment and unfortunately for Maths, also seems to present insurmountable problems to adapt. Planner - was the little picture Farsight posted on the previous page the Humanities block? Also do we hold any hopes for a decent looking car park?

October 24th, 2005, 01:36 AM	#72
Manchester Planner Chief Bureaucrat Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 6,848 Likes (Received): 1	The car park is nearly finished - you can visit it if you want.. It's on Higher Cambridge Street. As for the new humanities block being built near my department, I'm not sure what it will look like. Sorry.

October 24th, 2005, 10:18 AM	#73
Farsight Registered User Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 2,997 Likes (Received): 24	"Poor Quality" parkland aside, I'd like to a realistic render of this lecture theatre and Student and Nursing centre. What materials and colours will be used? Will the lecture theatre present a blank face to Oxford Road, or will there be windows? IMHO the cylindrical lecture theatre doesn't tie in with the angular buildings behind, which maybe look a bit sixties vanilla. I like the way the Central Library and Town Hall Extension meet with a matching curve, and wonder why this doesn't.

October 24th, 2005, 01:15 PM	#74
dgnr8 Mmm, Danone Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Manchester Posts: 1,778 Likes (Received): 5	It's because Manchester University hate you.

October 24th, 2005, 02:15 PM	#76
Farsight Registered User Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 2,997 Likes (Received): 24	jrb: I have to confess I find it a bit, um, tough putting aside the buildings! I didn't think they'd be using this lecture theatre for money-making conferences and stuff. Any links or pointers you can think of telling me more will be gratefully received.

October 24th, 2005, 08:49 PM	#77
SleepyOne Registered User Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 3,091 Likes (Received): 0	jrb - buildings are important thats why we're all here. Who cares if its the biggest such lecture theater in the UK (not sure where you've got that one by the way). What matters is that it fulfills its purpose and remains a great looking building, that enhances the expereience on the campus for many years to come. Personally I think this is a really promising render of what could be a great building. I love the variety of shapes and masses but they all seem to be tied together extremely well. In the case of the cylindrical part fronting Oxford Rd there is what appears to be a sort of squaring-the-circle cover on the opposite side of the building to the viewpoint. The lowlevel atrium also appears to tie in the flat facade witht he round one. This building, despite its height but by virtue of its design will have great presence on Oxford Rd IMO.