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Old April 14th, 2011, 05:18 PM   #2141
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I understand the alleged reasons to reconstruct certain areas "as the were", particularly when major war grievances were involved. However, I can't help myself but think of the reconstructing old (or severely altered/damaged) buildings not only for their individual architecture value but to recreate an "ambiance" or an a "scenario" to be not much above the motivation and justification ladder than Disneyland-like theme parks.

I don't like this project and think it would be better to have a 21st Century inspired design instead. But that is just my opinion, and I know I am on the minority here on SSC. That is also the probable cause of my deep appreciation for Rotterdam among all WW2 torn-down cities.
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Old April 14th, 2011, 06:24 PM   #2142
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I understand the alleged reasons to reconstruct certain areas "as the were", particularly when major war grievances were involved. However, I can't help myself but think of the reconstructing old (or severely altered/damaged) buildings not only for their individual architecture value but to recreate an "ambiance" or an a "scenario" to be not much above the motivation and justification ladder than Disneyland-like theme parks.

I don't like this project and think it would be better to have a 21st Century inspired design instead. But that is just my opinion, and I know I am on the minority here on SSC. That is also the probable cause of my deep appreciation for Rotterdam among all WW2 torn-down cities.
The justification ladder for Disneyland theme parks ladders up to pure entertainment value (with a primary target audience focus of ages 3-12) and has nothing to do with historical record, architectural significance, cultural preservationism, or long term economic value to the larger community (their financial interests are their own).

the 21st century inspired design that tends to be dominating the rebirth of places like Rotterdam, Dresden, etc, has little or nothing to do with the criteria noted above. Not that it should; but for many who believe history and culture have value, the long term representation of that through architecture is lost when most of the world now "looks" the same. Latter 20th and 21st century modernist designs are a globalist movement that creates likenesses rather than uniqueness...all (usually) for expediency, lower costs, and lack of concern for the enviromment in which the new designs will remain for decades.

i was struck two nights ago when leaving an event in San Francisco, California. I viewed an entire block of new contemporary modernist buildings and thought how clean and attractive they looked. Then I realized I could be in Chicago, Rotterdam, Beijing, Bangkok, Berlin, Buenos Aires, Manilla, Miami, Singapore, Houston, Dresden....or anywhere else. I remain totally confused as to why so many like the one size fits all approach to design and architecture.
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Old April 14th, 2011, 07:30 PM   #2143
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the 21st century inspired design that tends to be dominating the rebirth of places like Rotterdam, Dresden, etc, has little or nothing to do with the criteria noted above. Not that it should; but for many who believe history and culture have value, the long term representation of that through architecture is lost when most of the world now "looks" the same. Latter 20th and 21st century modernist designs are a globalist movement that creates likenesses rather than uniqueness...all (usually) for expediency, lower costs, and lack of concern for the enviromment in which the new designs will remain for decades.

i was struck two nights ago when leaving an event in San Francisco, California. I viewed an entire block of new contemporary modernist buildings and thought how clean and attractive they looked. Then I realized I could be in Chicago, Rotterdam, Beijing, Bangkok, Berlin, Buenos Aires, Manilla, Miami, Singapore, Houston, Dresden....or anywhere else. I remain totally confused as to why so many like the one size fits all approach to design and architecture.
If you want to build "replicas" for the open-air museum school of urban renovation, so be it - that is another discussions.

As for modern buildings being global, there is a reason to that: construction techniques, materials and the likes all went global. Even these "fake" or "replica" samples being erected in Dresden (and elsewhere) are not genuine in the sense they are built with modern materials, concrete fillings, stairwells with adjoining ramps for the handicapped etc. Mostly, it is all about retaining volume and external fašades.

Export and import of architecture is nothing new. Romans, after all, drawn on early Greek features to define them. Praire style in US draw from English Tudor's certain of its aspects. Chicago-style early skyscrapers were rapidly adopted as references for building high rises in many European cities.

There are countless historical references of how styles cross-influenced each other and how migrations, wars or even commercial relations took architectural styles in and out of favor in lands that were not their originals.

What modernism did was take the MILLENIA old trend to its limits, reaching the zenith of architecture in my opinion: an architecture that is place-less, that hasn't to rely in the surroundings, local weather or anything else to be relevant, beautiful and unique.

Although modernist, post-modernist, organic architecture, brutalist buildings can be found elsewhere, the GOOD exemplars excel in the art of claiming worldwide attention and becoming unique pieces in itself, without even the need for an accompanying city if you want to say to.

Think of the Guggenheim Bilbao museum, former World Trade Center, China TV HQs, Petronas Towers, 30 St. Mary Axe, Monteparnasse Tower etc: some might like them, some might now, but they are all unique pieces, easily recognizable, landmarks of the places/ares where they are now placed. It doesn't matter that each one of them could have been swapped with another prior to their construction and they would still retain its uniqueness if they had been built 5000km across.
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Old April 14th, 2011, 09:40 PM   #2144
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If you want to build "replicas" for the open-air museum school of urban renovation, so be it - that is another discussions.

As for modern buildings being global, there is a reason to that: construction techniques, materials and the likes all went global. Even these "fake" or "replica" samples being erected in Dresden (and elsewhere) are not genuine in the sense they are built with modern materials, concrete fillings, stairwells with adjoining ramps for the handicapped etc. Mostly, it is all about retaining volume and external fašades.

Export and import of architecture is nothing new. Romans, after all, drawn on early Greek features to define them. Praire style in US draw from English Tudor's certain of its aspects. Chicago-style early skyscrapers were rapidly adopted as references for building high rises in many European cities.

There are countless historical references of how styles cross-influenced each other and how migrations, wars or even commercial relations took architectural styles in and out of favor in lands that were not their originals.

What modernism did was take the MILLENIA old trend to its limits, reaching the zenith of architecture in my opinion: an architecture that is place-less, that hasn't to rely in the surroundings, local weather or anything else to be relevant, beautiful and unique.

Although modernist, post-modernist, organic architecture, brutalist buildings can be found elsewhere, the GOOD exemplars excel in the art of claiming worldwide attention and becoming unique pieces in itself, without even the need for an accompanying city if you want to say to.

Think of the Guggenheim Bilbao museum, former World Trade Center, China TV HQs, Petronas Towers, 30 St. Mary Axe, Monteparnasse Tower etc: some might like them, some might now, but they are all unique pieces, easily recognizable, landmarks of the places/ares where they are now placed. It doesn't matter that each one of them could have been swapped with another prior to their construction and they would still retain its uniqueness if they had been built 5000km across.
All good points about modernism and the value the bauhaus brought to architecture. For the sake of time and space, I tend to agree with your comments except for your point about integration with local environments.

That said, you have avoided the main issues of why there is a need/desire for historical and cultural records in the form of architecture. Even Hollywood, while reinventing itself each year, holds value and maintains its treasure chest of historic films.

If the former World Trade Center was indeed a good example of the culmination of the millenia of effort and a landmark, why would it have not been rebuilt to its original design? The carefree and insenstive disregard for the importance of maintaining the historic and cultural value is the problem I find difficult to reconcile.
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Old April 15th, 2011, 11:57 AM   #2145
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I just hope they'd get rid of the Kulturpalast. Why can't they build something by Norman Foster or Herzog & Meuron there, a new theater, art gallery, shopping mall...anything?
That building is fanatastic, why destructing one part of history, and trying to rebuild another part? The message coming from that building is much stronger than many other buildings surrounding it.
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Old April 15th, 2011, 01:36 PM   #2146
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That building is fanatastic, why destructing one part of history, and trying to rebuild another part? The message coming from that building is much stronger than many other buildings surrounding it.
Because otherwise we would all end up living in cities that look like Almere
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Old April 15th, 2011, 01:44 PM   #2147
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Because otherwise we would all end up living in cities that look like Almere
Well, you have a point that the Dutch build many "old looking" houses and complexes, but to give the land the credit, there are many, many modern, cool new development areas that in no way are replication of old styles.
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Old April 15th, 2011, 06:59 PM   #2148
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That building is fanatastic, why destructing one part of history, and trying to rebuild another part? The message coming from that building is much stronger than many other buildings surrounding it.
What is the message coming from the Kulturpalast?
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Old April 16th, 2011, 10:33 PM   #2149
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Rampische Stra▀e:







Quartier VIII:















Source: http://www.bausituation-dresden.com/
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Old April 17th, 2011, 12:00 PM   #2150
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Wow, the city takes shape
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Old April 26th, 2011, 01:35 PM   #2151
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Source: http://www.bausituation-dresden.com/
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Old April 26th, 2011, 02:23 PM   #2152
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Vielen Dank fuers Update Kampfy
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如果希腊国民继续信阴谋论,外资救世主的,不为自己的行为负责, 他们会灭亡。

人は何かの犠牲なしに何も得ることはできない。何かを得るためには同等の代価が必要になる。それが、生活における等価交換の原則だ。その頃僕らは、それが世界の真実だと信じていた。時間は、最も貴重な資源である。だから、誰の時間もあなたは無駄にしてはいけないし、誰もが他の人の時間を無駄にしないでください。
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Old April 27th, 2011, 08:47 AM   #2153
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Great job Kampflamm

Just went through your pictures in the Deutschland edition, simply gorgeous
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Old April 27th, 2011, 11:54 AM   #2154
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Thanks for the latest pictures. But the old wall has a huge crack or am I wrong?

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Old April 27th, 2011, 11:54 AM   #2155
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Thanks. Remember though that the Dresden pics in this thread aren't mine.
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Old April 28th, 2011, 01:35 PM   #2156
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Courtyard...reconstructed between 1986 and 2013 (apparently):









Source: http://www.bausituation-dresden.com/

Pre-1896:



Source:http://www.lexikus.de/Dresden

Not much was left of it after the war:









Source: http://www.bildindex.de/
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Old April 28th, 2011, 06:08 PM   #2157
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Very beautiful!
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Old April 28th, 2011, 09:22 PM   #2158
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So f*ckin great job!!!
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Old April 29th, 2011, 02:05 AM   #2159
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Wow, the before and after is amazing!
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Old April 30th, 2011, 04:45 PM   #2160
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I like the castle and definitely the church, but I'm still not sold on the tenement houses, they look funny. I would have preferred something modern around the church, with classical proportions and materials.
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