daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > World Forums > Architecture > European Classic Architecture and Landscapes

European Classic Architecture and Landscapes All related to historical buildings and landscapes of the old world.



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old August 10th, 2011, 07:58 PM   #2421
TheReconstructer
Registered User
 
TheReconstructer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Hoorn
Posts: 528
Likes (Received): 176

Quote:
Originally Posted by modernisti View Post
Does anyone else think the kulturplast is nice?
Are you insane?
We should've let it get dynamited, clear it as fast as it can away, and do an reconstructing of old Dresden on it, just like the commies did with our history!

I think it's a piece of shit in the middle of Dresden. I hope they clear it away as fast as they can. I also think it's the one of the most ugly buildings ever build in the Innenstadt.
TheReconstructer no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old August 10th, 2011, 08:01 PM   #2422
SonOfThomp
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Austin TX
Posts: 290
Likes (Received): 226

Quote:
Originally Posted by kamanan58 View Post
A third thing is, that some houses are randomly designed to look historic, but have no real predecessor, therefore adding to the historic falsification of the city.
It may look compelling to the eye, but that's about it, and you can't speak of reconstruction if the majority of the historic buildings has no direct architectural connection to it's pre-WWII predecessor.
What is an example of this? Do you refer to the 'modernist' houses dropped randomly between the historical facades?

Example:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_IpnCpUVGxO...enkirche19.jpg
SonOfThomp no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 10th, 2011, 08:06 PM   #2423
TheReconstructer
Registered User
 
TheReconstructer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Hoorn
Posts: 528
Likes (Received): 176

Quote:
Originally Posted by erbse View Post
^ Nice comparison


I could indeed do without this kind of "variety" the modernist junk adds to the Neumarkt area.
Baroque architecture is all about beautiful harmony, not disturbing contrasts.
It isn't just disturbing contrasts: it's the disrespecting of the history of the buildings which once stood there on the site of the modernist building, which they should've build far far away of Dresden's Innenstadt
TheReconstructer no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 11th, 2011, 05:23 PM   #2424
SonOfThomp
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Austin TX
Posts: 290
Likes (Received): 226

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheReconstructer View Post
It isn't just disturbing contrasts: it's the disrespecting of the history of the buildings which once stood there on the site of the modernist building, which they should've build far far away of Dresden's Innenstadt
Certainly outside the Ring-strasse.
SonOfThomp no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 11th, 2011, 06:35 PM   #2425
Ultramatic
Gotham City
 
Ultramatic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Metropolis
Posts: 11,017
Likes (Received): 1505

Everything is coming out splendidly. Dresden is so beautiful!
__________________
It's Mueller time!!!

Indict! Impeach! Imprison!
Ultramatic no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 12th, 2011, 05:14 PM   #2426
Kampflamm
Endorsed by the NRA
 
Kampflamm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Occupied Europe
Posts: 23,659

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfranz View Post
I have to agree with you. I am not against reconstruction, but they should do it the right way. It seems what Dresden is doing now is opposite of what I learned at the university on architectural conservation. They're not following the guidelines of ICOMOS and UNESCO.
Who gives a crap about UNESCO to be honest. Let's rebuild the city in a way that takes people's views into consideration and doesn't care about international bodies that probably couldn't even locate Dresden on a map.
__________________
Free German passport

"I think it's a privilege to call yourself a Wunderbarler and it's something that you have to earn."

Highcliff liked this post

Last edited by Kampflamm; August 12th, 2011 at 05:20 PM.
Kampflamm no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 12th, 2011, 05:15 PM   #2427
Wolfranz
Seine Durchlaucht
 
Wolfranz's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 771
Likes (Received): 608

Quote:
Originally Posted by kamanan58 View Post
I agree fully.

@Odoaker: If interested, research to what prices these houses are sold for, to whom they are sold, who sells them and how they advertise it and you will understand, that i'm right about it.
True, that some or even most wealthy Dresdners reside in green villa-style suburbs, and may even today, the point however is, that Dresdners and all-kind of other town people who belong to the wealthy upper class purchase these buildings, and either rent them out to seriously high rates because of the prestige the immobilia holds or reside in them at least some time of the year. Especially Baywobau, which runs all kinds of gentrification projects in Munich, Berlin, Hamburg etc. is deep into the deal. Look i even gave a first hint for your research.

A second thing i can't bear about this project is the faux-facade architecture, where often three baroque-style buildings hold a giant hotel complex behind them. The historic fragmentation of the city becomes a facade itself and that's really not very favorable. People who talk about Disneyland architecture are right to some extent.

A third thing is, that some houses are randomly designed to look historic, but have no real predecessor, therefore adding to the historic falsification of the city.
It may look compelling to the eye, but that's about it, and you can't speak of reconstruction if the majority of the historic buildings has no direct architectural connection to it's pre-WWII predecessor.

As i said before, maybe it looks nice to the eye, the uninterested tourists may buy it, conservative minded people, if they really think of themselfs as conservative should not put up with that scheme and raise their voices, but seem all in favor of the project, and i don't get that at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kamanan58 View Post
It's not some reconstruction, but a whole new quarter, which you claim is virtually uninhabitated lololololol. Do you know how many residents the blocks around Wilsdruffer Str. and Altmarkt hold?
Not intended to cause you butthurt, but there are heavy downsides to the project, most of them allready mentioned by me and surely others before.
Perhaps some are sick of the discussions, but i discovered this project only recently, so there are some things i had to share.
The last thing i want to add after reading through 40 pages today: The Kulturpalast is a great architectural contribution to the city (which can't be said about the rest of Altmarkt) and even fits in with the reconstructed quarters.
If continued to be used for public events and cultural exhibits, the whole city center will gain from it.

And don't get me wrong, i think reconstruction is wrong in the first place. What this geselschaft did, corrupting architectural competitions etc. was unacceptable and i'm amazed how the politicians played ball like this. whatever, you all had this discussions before, no intent to restart them.
I have to agree with you. I am not against reconstruction, but they should do it the right way. It seems what Dresden is doing now is opposite of what I learned at the university on architectural conservation. They're not following the guidelines of ICOMOS and UNESCO.
Wolfranz no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 12th, 2011, 09:53 PM   #2428
durden5573
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Banff, Alberta
Posts: 122
Likes (Received): 114

Any perceived negatives about the reconstruction is dwarfed by the long term aesthetic improvements, tourism spinoff, civic pride and global recognition. The gentrification and historical reconstruction will improve more Dresdener's lives then those few that have to find more affordable flats.

Commie blocks and DDR architecture was built with function over form in a period when people had to be quickly housed and infrastructure quickly replaced. The sooner those civic monstrosities meet the wrecking ball the better. I completely agree that some preservation of 1950-1990 building should be done to keep its place in history, I'm even fine if they keep the Kulturepalast, but to say "The Kulturpalast is a great architectural contribution" is laughable.
durden5573 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 12th, 2011, 10:09 PM   #2429
kamanan58
Registered User
 
kamanan58's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Sivas
Posts: 5
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by durden5573 View Post
Commie blocks and DDR architecture was built with function over form in a period when people had to be quickly housed and infrastructure quickly replaced. The sooner those civic monstrosities meet the wrecking ball the better. I completely agree that some preservation of 1950-1990 building should be done to keep its place in history, I'm even fine if they keep the Kulturepalast, but to say "The Kulturpalast is a great architectural contribution" is laughable.
I respect your viewpoint, but i love to hear your side on why the kulturpalast is wrong for dresden. if you want to, i can also represent the other side

a general discussion about the kulturpalast in the context of neumarkt/altmarkt reconstruction would be favorable.
kamanan58 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 12th, 2011, 11:56 PM   #2430
durden5573
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Banff, Alberta
Posts: 122
Likes (Received): 114

Quote:
Originally Posted by kamanan58 View Post
I respect your viewpoint, but i love to hear your side on why the kulturpalast is wrong for dresden. if you want to, i can also represent the other side

a general discussion about the kulturpalast in the context of neumarkt/altmarkt reconstruction would be favorable.
I dont think it is "wrong for Dresden", as it does signify a period of time and historic significance of the city. So from that perspective I would be fine with it staying. But, I would only argue that it is a bland, uninspiring, poorly built eyesore. It may provoke emotions (as it it is a symbol from an oppressive, failed regime) but don't confuse those emotions with the same that seeing the Colosseum, Brandenburg gates or Frauenkirche inspire. As others have stated, there are a number of areas within Dresden and around the DDR that can be kept as a reminder of history, just a shame this one is right in the Neumarkt.

That's just my opinion and I can respect others who may feel different about the retention of the social planning legacy. Just a shame its smack dead center in one of the most impressive examples of Baroque splendor.

I'm curious, as you bated the waters, what rationale do you have for thinking the Kulturpalast should stay? Or that it is even a 'good' building?

Last edited by durden5573; August 13th, 2011 at 01:43 AM.
durden5573 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 13th, 2011, 02:52 AM   #2431
modernisti
Registered User
 
modernisti's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Oulu/Singapore
Posts: 39
Likes (Received): 0

Kulturpalast should not stay! I still like, because I've always been into minimalistic and modern design, this building very minimal and it's proportions are nice. The brown glass is also a good touch. But of course I have to agree that it looks wrong amongst Baroque beauty.
modernisti no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 14th, 2011, 10:41 PM   #2432
Saigoneseguy
Vivat capitalismus
 
Saigoneseguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Saigon
Posts: 5,330
Likes (Received): 106

Quote:
Originally Posted by keepthepast View Post
What is the message coming from the Kulturpalast?
Nothing. Maybe the current population still have some feeling for that building but the future generations, the ones to whom this ongoing reconstruction work is dedicated, will demolish it anyway.
__________________
' ' Si Gn khng bao giờ ngủ - V tiền khng bao giờ đủ '
Saigoneseguy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 15th, 2011, 07:43 AM   #2433
nanyuyu
BANNED
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1
Likes (Received): 0

Great. Can't wait to see it finished.
nanyuyu no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 16th, 2011, 11:27 AM   #2434
DocentX
Registered User
 
DocentX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Warsaw
Posts: 6,812
Likes (Received): 2100

more old towns should be recontructed like Dresden's

yes - I know that in many cases it's almost impossible, unfortunately sometimes those f.... architects or local authorities were lacking common sense
__________________
'Dream as if you'll live forever - live as you'll die today'
DocentX no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 16th, 2011, 09:49 PM   #2435
SonOfThomp
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Austin TX
Posts: 290
Likes (Received): 226

Here are some goodies!

A truly jolly scene:

http://www.neumarkt-dresden.de/baubi...1/IMG_0245.jpg

I think the style of the buildings added onto the Landhaus in the early 20th century would be well-suited to other area instead of glass and steel 'mistakes'.

This one highlights just what a horrendous mess the Kulturpalast really is:

http://www.neumarkt-dresden.de/baubi...1/IMG_0225.jpg

I must admit, though I complain about the insertion of inappropriate architectural styles into this project, I am thrilled that it is being undertaken. Not too long ago, it would have seemed impossible, a mere dream!
SonOfThomp no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 18th, 2011, 01:04 AM   #2436
Kampflamm
Endorsed by the NRA
 
Kampflamm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Occupied Europe
Posts: 23,659

I don't know why but I just don't find that building all that appealing. It just feels like there's something lacking.













Source: http://www.bausituation-dresden.com/
__________________
Free German passport

"I think it's a privilege to call yourself a Wunderbarler and it's something that you have to earn."

Highcliff liked this post
Kampflamm no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 18th, 2011, 06:48 PM   #2437
SonOfThomp
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Austin TX
Posts: 290
Likes (Received): 226

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kampflamm View Post
I don't know why but I just don't find that building all that appealing. It just feels like there's something lacking.

Source: http://www.bausituation-dresden.com/
To what building do you refer?

On another note, just to show that I don't loathe ALL modern architecture:

http://www.snegidhi.com/2010/109-22-...n-Chicago.html
SonOfThomp no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 21st, 2011, 02:39 AM   #2438
JohnnyMass
Whatever
 
JohnnyMass's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Porto
Posts: 46,077
Likes (Received): 1493

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kampflamm View Post
I don't know why but I just don't find that building all that appealing. It just feels like there's something lacking.
It's a little too white...
__________________
Edit my Signature
JohnnyMass no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 21st, 2011, 04:40 AM   #2439
Rascian
НН
 
Rascian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Beograd (sremska strana)
Posts: 2,824
Likes (Received): 2162

Its just dull and uninspiring. Only because it was built in the old style does not mean it's valuable and appealing. People are unrealistic, theyre overestimating many classical building while underrating modernist masterpieces.
__________________
Лепота ће спасити свет.
Rascian no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 21st, 2011, 03:42 PM   #2440
El_Greco
pater la Bourgeoisie
 
El_Greco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: London/Taipei
Posts: 19,307
Likes (Received): 8163

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kampflamm View Post
Who gives a crap about UNESCO to be honest. Let's rebuild the city in a way that takes people's views into consideration and doesn't care about international bodies that probably couldn't even locate Dresden on a map.
With some cool contemporary stuff here and there please (more UFA-Palasts and New Synagogues!).
__________________
My Travels : Barcelona|Edinburgh|Glasgow|London|Madrid|New York|Paris|Taipei|Vilnius
El_Greco no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
classic architecture, classic europe, construction updates, dresden, reconstruction, redevelopment, rekonstrucje, rekonstruktion, sachsen

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 12:22 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

Hosted by Blacksun, dedicated to this site too!
Forum server management by DaiTengu