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Old November 13th, 2011, 03:41 PM   #2661
Karasek
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Originally Posted by Plaudit View Post
It would be fake and completely out of place to have there some modern steel and concrete boxes instead of beautiful old style buildings.
Like this?



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Old November 13th, 2011, 03:47 PM   #2662
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^

Is it near the Zwinger Palace?
Wherever it is,it is ugly!

Last edited by erbse; November 13th, 2011 at 03:57 PM.
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Old November 13th, 2011, 04:48 PM   #2663
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For me, as I said in other thread, Berlin is a good example in areas like the Postdamplatz. Modern buildings in place of things that bombs and tanks had destroyed.
I actually like the aesthetics of Potsdamer Platz but the style is rather postmodern or art deco rather than modernist.
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They could create some totally awesome NEW district in central Dresden, something evocative of 2011, looking for the future, lots of glass and steel.
If there is anything Dresden is in no short supply it is modernist quarters. There is no logic reason at all why one should drown the last historic remains in a sea of cold monumental modernism as you'd like it to see.

Dresden does have a modernist centre anyway. Just go down the Prager Straße to the main station. Your zeal against anything that does not fit into your modernist pedestrian hostile ideals is luckily no shared by many other people.
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Here in the Netherlands, there is a prime example of that: Rotterdam, a city whose central area was heavily bombed on WW2, reconstructed itself in a total modern way, including a new street plan where whole blocks had been torn down. It is by far and large the most awesome and modern city in the whole country.
Great example. If I had to choose which city I'd like to visit (Dresden vs Rotterdam) for a nice weekend, I'd know it hands down. The only interesting thing in Rotterdam is the harbour but not because it is such a nice place to be but because it is an impressive and hugely important piece of the European industrial landscape. Maybe some highrises and that one stylish bridge could be counted as sights too, but they are best enjoyed by simply driving through or from the distance.
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Frankfurt was also heavily bombed and decided to go now reconstructing everything.
Everything? Stop talking nonsense. They are partially reconstructing a small area of the inner old town where an incredibly ugly eye sore was located before.
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War is surely an unfortunate development, it creates heavy damage on cities, but once damage is done, you either repair it immediately after, or clear rubble and debris and build over.
Why, because you demand so? There is no rational reason for you dogma.
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Old November 13th, 2011, 06:52 PM   #2664
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I think @SubUrbanist will like this video, especially that fragment since 4:00 minute:
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Old November 13th, 2011, 07:40 PM   #2665
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Like this?




Yes. There are many similar cases in my city Usti nad Labem (Aussig) that was heavily damaged too by WW2 bombing and communist modernisation. For example next to the theatre we had this:





Now ve have this:






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Old November 13th, 2011, 07:51 PM   #2666
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I think @SubUrbanist will like this video, especially that fragment since 4:00 minute:
I honestly had to gasp for breath after minute 4:00! What barbarism beyond belief!
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Old November 13th, 2011, 08:29 PM   #2667
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Progress!

I had a look at wiki. It was destroyed because the open pit mining. The whole city was moved and only the church was spared by moving it instead of destroying it.
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Old November 13th, 2011, 08:34 PM   #2668
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I honestly had to gasp for breath after minute 4:00! What barbarism beyond belief!
Yes, the communists completely destroyed the historical city that was almost as beautiful as Prague old town. And you would be even more horrified if you came to Most today, after modernist architects build there a "brave new modern city". There is nothing that pleases the eye, only lots of ugly concrete blocks, all of them look the same, people there are unhappy and the crime level is among highest in the country.








Last edited by Plaudit; November 13th, 2011 at 08:46 PM.
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Old November 13th, 2011, 08:51 PM   #2669
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This is actually a surprising argument by Suburbanist, one which shows that his views have nothing to do with economics as he often claims.

In this context it's very clear. If tourists would flock to cities to see an Old Town center, whether new or fake, than that should be a good reason to build it or rebuild it. The laws of economics are telling you so, and you can expand the rest of the city with newer buildings.

Therefore Suburbanist is being very hypocritical here. He has often been found wrong in other arguments as well, when his economic analysis did not stock up to somebody elses but this time it's quite apparent. I don't really care why he has the beliefs he has (highways, concrete etc), he might just be a troll trying to wind people up. What I know is that a vast majority of people in this forum disagree with his views and I am quite happy for it.
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Old November 13th, 2011, 09:24 PM   #2670
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kampflamm View Post
Neumarkt video giving everyone a good overview of things to come:



Can't wait for Quartier 6 to get under way. It's gonna create a nice space between itself and the Johanneum. And that street leading from the Neumarkt to the castle and the Schlossstraße.
Looks great!
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Old November 13th, 2011, 09:42 PM   #2671
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Originally Posted by Plaudit View Post
These people who criticize the reconstruction as "fake" often do not understand much about the region in which Dresden is located. Neumarkt is in the heart of the city that is centre of the region full of beautiful historical treasures (castles, palaces, old towns) that correspond exactly to the style in which Neumarkt is reconstructed. It would be fake and completely out of place to have there some modern steel and concrete boxes instead of beautiful old style buildings. In my opinion this reconstruction is very successful. I live in the Czech republic forty kilometers from Dresden and often visit the city to see its progress.
As do I from Reichenberg. Anyway, some places with modern architecture are great, just look at Prager Str, Kulturpalast, they're beautiful, although generally I'm for destroying the socialist architecture with all ten - heard they recently demolished one ugly residential commieblock in Komotau, good job!

As for the Brüx, I'd be happy if someone tried to reconstruct the town as well. But that's a very very distant future - one would first have to do all the landscaping and changes in river system, then hide or move all the existing infrastructure (roads, railway), then move the church back, renovate the old street grid and prepare the site for extremely costly construction.. still better than to have there ugly terrain with lake where old Most used to be, though..
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Old November 13th, 2011, 10:11 PM   #2672
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The assumption that people are unhappy because they buildings do not look in a certain style is abhorrent, it's like believing fortunetellers to make important decisions.

Objective measures of comfort like space, light, thermal control, noise might and do influence people's health and sometimes behavior. However, it is just beyond any reason to assume that some architectural style, alone, would be good or bad on itself!!! I really can't stand this superstition that a commieblock causes "unhappiness and crime" just because they are squared. The problem is with the socio-economic and moral character level of people living in those blocks, not the block appearance itself!
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Old November 13th, 2011, 10:28 PM   #2673
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sienioslaw View Post
I think @SubUrbanist will like this video, especially that fragment since 4:00 minute:
I have just witnessed a crime.
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Old November 13th, 2011, 10:57 PM   #2674
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The assumption that people are unhappy because they buildings do not look in a certain style is abhorrent, it's like believing fortunetellers to make important decisions.
People in a city like Most are not unhappy because the don't have a certain style but because their city creates no attractive public spaces at all and looks drab to say it positively. That is nothing unusual for totally die hard modernist cities.

Even if you are in denial about it, aesthetics are an important function of architecture and concrete brutalist monemunentalism does not create attractive public spaces for daily life.

It is right however that most styles can be well or badly implemented. There are also examples of modernist centres that create attractive environments, I would say the Hafenstadt in Hamburg might be an example even though also those example benefit greatly from some older architecture left overs (Speicherstadt etc).
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Old November 14th, 2011, 12:50 AM   #2675
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Originally Posted by Norkey View Post
As do I from Reichenberg. Anyway, some places with modern architecture are great, just look at Prager Str, Kulturpalast, they're beautiful, although generally I'm for destroying the socialist architecture with all ten - heard they recently demolished one ugly residential commieblock in Komotau, good job! As for the Brüx, I'd be happy if someone tried to reconstruct the town as well. But that's a very very distant future - one would first have to do all the landscaping and changes in river system, then hide or move all the existing infrastructure (roads, railway), then move the church back, renovate the old street grid and prepare the site for extremely costly construction.. still better than to have there ugly terrain with lake where old Most used to be, though..
I think that Prager Strasse is not bad, yet I would still prefer it like it was before WW2. But Prager Strasse is not exactly in the heart of the city and I can accept modern buildings there. I would really hate them if they were on the Neumarkt.
About Kulturpalast - even if there are far worse examples of modern architecture, I do not like that building much and I think it definitely does not fit in Neumarkt old style rebuilt area.
About Brüx - I wish for the reconstruction at least of part of the old town. It could revive whole city and give it its heart back. Maybe they could build it by the lake not exactly on original place, it is not probable that they will destroy and move absolutely everything again (even if I would love it ).
By the way - I would also like to see much more reconstructed in the Czech republic than Most, especially Denisovo nádraží and destroyed part of Staroměstská radnice.

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Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
The assumption that people are unhappy because they buildings do not look in a certain style is abhorrent, it's like believing fortunetellers to make important decisions. Objective measures of comfort like space, light, thermal control, noise might and do influence people's health and sometimes behavior. However, it is just beyond any reason to assume that some architectural style, alone, would be good or bad on itself!!! I really can't stand this superstition that a commieblock causes "unhappiness and crime" just because they are squared. The problem is with the socio-economic and moral character level of people living in those blocks, not the block appearance itself!
Less attractive concrete block areas are cheaper, thus socio-economic level is lower (you can get apartment in Most - Brüx almost for nothing). I agree with Slartibartfas, that concrete brutalist monumentalism does not create attractive public spaces for everyday life and I also believe that architectural style can have impact on happiness - at least of some people. The human being is not just machine depending on the "objective measures". I personally often feel emptiness and sometimes also sadness, anxiety and even anger when just moving around areas with dull big concrete boxes that are all alike (the crime level would be probably even higher if I met some of its architects there ). I have quite opposite feelings in the old city centers (in those precious moments when they are not full of tourists ) or suburbs. I usually feel relaxing, warm atmosphere and sometimes even happiness. I guess many more people feel it that way and like old buildings more, otherwise tourists would flock into Most instead of old towns.


I will also give you one example. In Aussig we had this street.


The communists deemed it obsolete, decided to "modernize it" according to functional principles, tore it down and built this:





Do you think that people in that "modern" complex are happier than in the original houses? Go ask them. Before it was prominent street, now almost nobody wants to live there and who can afford it, is leaving the place.
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Last edited by Plaudit; November 14th, 2011 at 11:26 AM.
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Old November 14th, 2011, 06:06 AM   #2676
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[/URL]


Now ve have this:





How they dare, just ugly its just a tacky box... near to great and exquisite building...
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Old November 14th, 2011, 05:35 PM   #2677
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Originally Posted by Sienioslaw View Post
I think @SubUrbanist will like this video, especially that fragment since 4:00 minute:
That made me fee physically ill.
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Old November 14th, 2011, 07:21 PM   #2678
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How they dare, just ugly its just a tacky box... near to great and exquisite building...
Yes, in recent public survey it even won the price as most horrible building in Aussig since the velvet revolution.



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Old November 14th, 2011, 07:23 PM   #2679
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Sadly the city council in Usti - Aussig does not care much about the appearance of buildings in the city center. So we also have this monstrous shopping center (completed 2009) next to two churches (notice: yellow of them was damaged in WW2 bombing and its spire is leaning) in the key area that is of similar importance for our city as Dresden Neumarkt. Imagine something like that there next to Frauenkirche, you can clearly see how it ends when investors and modernist architects (from the Netherlands in this case) get free hand to do whatever they like.












Last edited by Plaudit; November 14th, 2011 at 07:52 PM.
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Old November 14th, 2011, 07:24 PM   #2680
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The city could have been much better with Dresden like regulatory policy that does not allow investors to do all they want. The communists wanted to "modernize" Aussig and after the velvet revolution the mayor wanted to modernize it even more and bragged that Aussig would soon be most modern city in the Czech republic. So it is. With ugly concrete boxes almost everywhere. Do people like it? Or do we live in perfect city now? Not at all. Other cities with preserved historical cores are much more favoured among the people in the Czech republic.

Last edited by Plaudit; November 14th, 2011 at 08:04 PM.
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