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Old January 11th, 2012, 12:22 AM   #2821
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great buildings from berlin! exacly what i meant for "contemporary classical". No fear utilizing brand new materials or tecnology or light scheme, but built with a classical sense of elegance. Thank you Dresden and Berlin to focus on these fact. That would be great in Dresden too I guess. If he wasn't a british architect (so too much implied on "allied force" that actually drestoyed Dresden) I would suggest that a neobaroque touch like the one we see in Quinlan Terry works woulb be great in a baroque new city.
@Sonofthomp, you're perfectly right about modernism ageing badly and losing its way towards a beautiful contemporary architecture. Time to move back to ornamentation, sustainable craftmanship and soul, and step away from mechanization and polluting industry even in architecture. Never fogetting we're in 2012 and we're blessed by amazing technologies though...
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Old January 11th, 2012, 01:38 PM   #2822
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Although there are some modernist buildings that can look decent. Have a look at this project from Berlin:
How come you call those projects modernist? In fact they aren't.
This is either called New Urbanism (when talking about the way of planning), new classicism/historism or postmodernism.
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Old January 11th, 2012, 02:57 PM   #2823
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Very beautiful! Classicism has proved its value for over 2500 years now.
Well done, Germany
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Old January 11th, 2012, 04:22 PM   #2824
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How come you call those projects modernist? In fact they aren't.
This is either called New Urbanism (when talking about the way of planning), new classicism/historism or postmodernism.
Well, the point is that they are modern buildings. IMO they can be described as modernist since they are built in a style hitherto unknown and unused. They're certainly not neo-baroque or neo-art nouveau.
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Old January 11th, 2012, 06:40 PM   #2825
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No, but they clearly don't belong to modernism (=! modern) either, which is a style of its own.

As long as we don't have the proper terms, I'd call them neo-historicist, traditionalist or postmodern.
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Old January 11th, 2012, 09:42 PM   #2826
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Yeah, I guess I should have called them modern. But they really don't appear to be postmodern either since I associate some rather gaudy buildings with that style. This is something much more refined imo.
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Old January 11th, 2012, 10:05 PM   #2827
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I love those buildings in Berlin! I'm not sure which way architecture is headed in Berlin, but I think it would be great if a lot of the city could be rebuilt (or refaced) in a traditional style. Then maybe, it would be as beautiful as it was before WWII.
Unfortunately,Berlin will never be as beautiful as it was pre WW2, there was just far too much lost both at the end of the war and subsequently, often because of political ideology in the eastern section. However, it's great to see these wonderful new projects bringing beauty back to the city and of course when finally the Royal Palace is reconstructed Berlin will once again have it's focal point, can't wait to see it happen.
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Old January 12th, 2012, 02:41 PM   #2828
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''New Urbanism ''
'' new classicism/historism ''
'' postmodernism''
''Classicism ''
'' modernist''
'' New Urbanism''
''modern''
'' modernist ''
'' neo-baroque ''
'' neo-art nouveau''
'' neo-historicist''
'' traditionalist''
'' gaudy''

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Old January 12th, 2012, 03:50 PM   #2829
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That door...


Source: http://www.bausituation-dresden.com/
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Old January 12th, 2012, 03:50 PM   #2830
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We should find a proper single term to describe the new revival architecture.

Well, "Neo Revival" sounds pretty cool actually.
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Old January 12th, 2012, 03:54 PM   #2831
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How about 'Neo Retro Metrosexual Revival'?
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Old January 12th, 2012, 04:03 PM   #2832
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Anti Non-Ornamental Movement.
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Old January 12th, 2012, 04:08 PM   #2833
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Fight Loos Act



Actually that's worth an own thread.
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Old January 13th, 2012, 12:07 AM   #2834
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Post Classicism!

Quote:
Originally Posted by erbse View Post
We should find a proper single term to describe the new revival architecture.
I always was a HUGE fan of the term POST CLASSICAL

post, because it follows modernism and takes with it every single engineering innovation that this period has developped, its improvement in materials and in infrastructures. We're not pretending XX century never happened. Modernism has happened, it has had its great time and it acheved lots of things. It had happened, and now it's gone. We're succeding that period.

Classical because it's classical in the purpose of reaching a newer and more pure beauty, a strive to achieve a beauty more perfect than the one achieved in any other given period. It's classical also because there is a coming back to developping ornamentation and architecture. In XX century and in modernism, architecture was put aside to let engineers project and decide what beauty was. Simbol of that period was the 1889 tour eiffel in Paris. There, and engineer built a provisionary metallic structure built in an industrial way. It lacked of every ornamentation. It was only and pure structure. And the author was not an architect, wasn't used to draw but to calculate. from then on, beauty was a concept linked to the bravery and boldness of structure, no longer with the actually beauty of the building.

Post classical, this period, this style must be developped in every art, in painting and in scuptures, and it must be an innovative approach with the past.

Brunelleschi in early XV century built a huge dome in Florence, and that simple building started a modern and an innovative view about classical values that were soon to end with middle ages. That spark is nowadays still with us, we will revitalise that light of humanism since today.

Post Classical, it's simple, it's catchy, it's ok!

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Old January 13th, 2012, 12:54 AM   #2835
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cameronpaul View Post
Unfortunately,Berlin will never be as beautiful as it was pre WW2, there was just far too much lost both at the end of the war and subsequently, often because of political ideology in the eastern section. However, it's great to see these wonderful new projects bringing beauty back to the city and of course when finally the Royal Palace is reconstructed Berlin will once again have it's focal point, can't wait to see it happen.
You're right. The anti-tradition fascists have too much control. Before Berlin sees new beautiful buildings, there will have to be significant political and social change. Until then, the modernists that boast their "open minded architecture" will continue to be dictators of fashion.
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Old January 13th, 2012, 04:07 PM   #2836
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You're right. The anti-tradition fascists have too much control. Before Berlin sees new beautiful buildings, there will have to be significant political and social change. Until then, the modernists that boast their "open minded architecture" will continue to be dictators of fashion.
The problem is that fascism and totalitarism in Germany, Italy and Russia-USSR used a LOT of classicism to imitate the past eras, and so classicism is considered today a close friend to those horrible experiences.

That's a HUGE pity, because if you think well classicism was created by Greeks, the inventors of democracy, three thousands years ago. But for the last century's issue, we can't now get anymore classical themed building without being criticised for being "fake imitations" like if we were still in a totalitarian era and we would trying to demonstrate our "greatness".

No, we're not. We're only trying to get beautiful things.

One last thing: every critics to the contemporary neoclassical architecture, or "post classicist" style (as some defines it) is based on one thing. It ran out of fashon at the beginning of the century, why try to resume it today?

And the answer is that it NEVER ran out of fashon, it has always seen as beautiful and always will be.

There were just enconomical problems at the time that imposed a forced stop to architecture in favour of engineeristical solution that could simplify the building of economical new structure. No author at the time modernism was created seen classical as an outdated fashon.
No. Modernism was just to be considered a provisional movement to solve some social problems, to return then to develop true architecture. Why on Earth have we get stuck to that provisional phase? Move On please!!

More post classical it's all we really need today!
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Old January 13th, 2012, 05:21 PM   #2837
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tommolo View Post
I always was a HUGE fan of the term POST CLASSICAL

post, because it follows modernism and takes with it every single engineering innovation that this period has developped, its improvement in materials and in infrastructures. We're not pretending XX century never happened. Modernism has happened, it has had its great time and it acheved lots of things. It had happened, and now it's gone. We're succeding that period.

Classical because it's classical in the purpose of reaching a newer and more pure beauty, a strive to achieve a beauty more perfect than the one achieved in any other given period. It's classical also because there is a coming back to developping ornamentation and architecture. In XX century and in modernism, architecture was put aside to let engineers project and decide what beauty was. Simbol of that period was the 1889 tour eiffel in Paris. There, and engineer built a provisionary metallic structure built in an industrial way. It lacked of every ornamentation. It was only and pure structure. And the author was not an architect, wasn't used to draw but to calculate. from then on, beauty was a concept linked to the bravery and boldness of structure, no longer with the actually beauty of the building.

Post classical, this period, this style must be developped in every art, in painting and in scuptures, and it must be an innovative approach with the past.

Brunelleschi in early XV century built a huge dome in Florence, and that simple building started a modern and an innovative view about classical values that were soon to end with middle ages. That spark is nowadays still with us, we will revitalise that light of humanism since today.

Post Classical, it's simple, it's catchy, it's ok!

In my opinion "post classical" is not an apt term. Post is a prefix describing the root word (and if used distinctly, it will carry an entirely different meaning). Contextually "post" could mean Baroque to Modernism to contemporary architecture. So "post-classical" is ambiguous, much like how the word "Modernism" is misused.

Going back to the controversial M word, the only way to make a distinction is the capitalization of the first letter. If we say Modernism, it should mean the architectural movement, but if we say modernism, it would be the concept of being modern.

What's happening in Dresden now cannot be labelled as Neo-Traditionalist since the construction methods are 21st Century. It cannot also fit the term Neo-Neoclassical since designs are not in the strict classical language (as opposed to the Neoclassical Period), but from various motifs taken from historic styles. I'll vote for Neo-Revival or Neo-Romanticism because what's happening now is very similar to what happened in the Romantic Period in art.
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Old January 13th, 2012, 06:10 PM   #2838
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Well, to me "post" refers actually to actually coming after, but following, if you know what I mean. It comes after classical, but don't refuse it at all. "M period" was a constant stepping away from classicism, whilst "post classicism" comes after and refers directly to a contemporary modernism. It stress the fact of being fully and totally contemporary. Not at all a mere imitation of the past. My two pence on that.

I mean, revival period it's something already happened in XIX century...another revival once again today seems like trying too hard to keep classicism alive beyond its life...we want some innovation too according to my point of view...going back to the classical path and pushing the envelope forward!
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Old January 13th, 2012, 09:13 PM   #2839
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I really think that the problem here in Dresde and in many places where rehabilitation proyects are going on is the fact that you really don`t need to create a reintrepretation , not in the city center of the European cities. You already have the way to do things, just reconstruc the building as it was, but when an architecture studio gets a proyect like this tend to transform the thing by their own vision put their own footprint, and this is not way. You can make reinterpretation in other parts of the city but not in the center where the grid and style was very clear. European cities should be reconstruc by the age of it´s buildings usually that is patern is by rings oldest in the center. Just my opinion.
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Old January 13th, 2012, 11:43 PM   #2840
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I really think that the problem here in Dresde and in many places where rehabilitation proyects are going on is the fact that you really don`t need to create a reintrepretation , not in the city center of the European cities. You already have the way to do things, just reconstruc the building as it was, but when an architecture studio gets a proyect like this tend to transform the thing by their own vision put their own footprint, and this is not way. You can make reinterpretation in other parts of the city but not in the center where the grid and style was very clear. European cities should be reconstruc by the age of it´s buildings usually that is patern is by rings oldest in the center. Just my opinion.
I agree in full.
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