daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > World Forums > Architecture > European Classic Architecture and Landscapes

European Classic Architecture and Landscapes All related to historical buildings and landscapes of the old world.



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old November 10th, 2012, 05:53 PM   #3341
Varoš
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 62
Likes (Received): 33

Can someone post picture of original pre-war Gewandhaus?
Varoš no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old November 10th, 2012, 06:14 PM   #3342
cinxxx
I ♥ Timişoara
 
cinxxx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: München
Posts: 22,177
Likes (Received): 18268

Thank God for dedicated people like you
cinxxx no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 10th, 2012, 07:36 PM   #3343
erbse
LIBERTINED
 
erbse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: McLenBurg
Posts: 43,167
Likes (Received): 57847

^ Thanks mate!

Varoš: This was the original baroque Gewandhaus, separating the Neumarkt into two parts:


http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...28I%29_006.jpg

(Painting by Bernardo Bellotto, known as Canaletto - around 1750)


Even back then the Gewandhaus was considered an "eyesore" considering its reluctance of adjustment to the urban surroundings. It took away a lot from the unique generousness of the Neumarkt square. It was torn down just some decades after its construction, since it also suffered from bombardments during the 7-years war in 1760.

Now imagine such a situation with a crappy modernist building...
__________________
GET FREE!
D W F


🔥 Tradition doesn't mean to look after the ash, but to keep the flame alive! 🔥

Highcliff liked this post
erbse no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 10th, 2012, 07:57 PM   #3344
sergionni
Registered User
 
sergionni's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Belgrade
Posts: 1,690
Likes (Received): 443

Quote:
Originally Posted by william of waco View Post
The Kulturpalast is straight out of the catalog. It will not make anybody's top 100 list of the best modern buildings. I've seen its "uniqueness" defended by many here but so far no one has justified its intrusive presence in Dresden's old town. Would they be so quick to praise this building if it were one of a chain of 1960's supermarkets in some random American suburb? Here they tear down buildings similar in design to the Kulturpalast all the time.

Any building, new or old, should conform with Dresden's revitalization, and not Dresden conforming with its dreary post-war past. The only nice thing I can think to say about the Kulturpalast are the spectacular views of the Altmarkt and Neumarkt to be had from its curtain windows:
isn't that sometimes enough? if u make revitalization of its facade and make it more transparent with no brown in it and make it technologically more advanced with the more neutral concept of the glass support (the vertical division) you could make the building lighter and somehow less present in the historical grid. i find it rather cool be present in dense context and blocked towards newmarket. i don’t see any problem with it facing the oldmarket considering the fact that that square will not be rebuilt in its preWWII look.
__________________
proud to be SERB
sergionni no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 10th, 2012, 08:05 PM   #3345
sergionni
Registered User
 
sergionni's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Belgrade
Posts: 1,690
Likes (Received): 443

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kampflamm View Post
The Gewandhaus would have been a modern addition adjacent to Quarter VI.



excuse me, but this is hell ugly peace of contemporary architecture. it looks like some kind of lame bad excuse to the architectural profession for the construction "new old" buildings. if u ask me u need to reconstruct the old building here (no matter how disputed that can be) and pay attention to very good and professional reconstruction of kulturpalast, which adds enough of moder and contemporary touch to the area.
__________________
proud to be SERB
sergionni no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 10th, 2012, 08:07 PM   #3346
sergionni
Registered User
 
sergionni's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Belgrade
Posts: 1,690
Likes (Received): 443

Quote:
Originally Posted by erbse View Post
^ Thanks mate!

Varoš: This was the original baroque Gewandhaus, separating the Neumarkt into two parts:
can i see on some map its original site?
__________________
proud to be SERB
sergionni no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 10th, 2012, 08:12 PM   #3347
erbse
LIBERTINED
 
erbse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: McLenBurg
Posts: 43,167
Likes (Received): 57847

Right in between the two central orange blocks (Quartier I + Quartier III) next to the Frauenkirche here, separating the square:




You can also see how the Kulturpalast will be hidden in the future on that graphic.
__________________
GET FREE!
D W F


🔥 Tradition doesn't mean to look after the ash, but to keep the flame alive! 🔥

Highcliff liked this post
erbse no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 10th, 2012, 08:17 PM   #3348
sergionni
Registered User
 
sergionni's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Belgrade
Posts: 1,690
Likes (Received): 443

^

continuing the direction of landhausstraBe?
yes i saw this thread from the kulturpalast
i just wonder....quarter VI will be rebuild in historic or this "new" way like on previous posts?
__________________
proud to be SERB

Last edited by erbse; November 11th, 2012 at 05:33 AM.
sergionni no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 11th, 2012, 05:50 AM   #3349
erbse
LIBERTINED
 
erbse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: McLenBurg
Posts: 43,167
Likes (Received): 57847

^ No one ever said Quartier VI facing the Neumarkt will be built in a modern way
It's parts of Quartier VII and Quartier V (I) that will be.

Quartier VI will look like that, supposedly (Neumarkt 13-14):





Department store "Au Petit Bazar", redesigned in 1851 by Gottfried Semper (creator of the Semper Opera)




All from: Andreas Hummel - arte4d / http://www.neumarkt-dresden.de/neumarkt13-14.html
__________________
GET FREE!
D W F


🔥 Tradition doesn't mean to look after the ash, but to keep the flame alive! 🔥

Highcliff, JustinHerman liked this post
erbse no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 11th, 2012, 05:53 AM   #3350
erbse
LIBERTINED
 
erbse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: McLenBurg
Posts: 43,167
Likes (Received): 57847

^ Before WW2:


http://www.neumarkt-dresden.de/image...arkt-13-14.jpg

Neumarkt aerial

http://www.neumarkt-dresden.de/Vergr...enhof1930.html
__________________
GET FREE!
D W F


🔥 Tradition doesn't mean to look after the ash, but to keep the flame alive! 🔥

Highcliff liked this post
erbse no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 11th, 2012, 06:04 AM   #3351
erbse
LIBERTINED
 
erbse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: McLenBurg
Posts: 43,167
Likes (Received): 57847

But it's also well possible that Quartier VI will be rebuilt according to its baroque original appearance, that was very symmetrical:


http://www.neumarkt-dresden.de/Bilde...ustusstr-2.jpg

Instead of the Gewandhaus, we're getting some nice greenery.
This box symbolizes how the new Gewandhaus would have ****ed up this square:



Without that shite:

http://www.neumarkt-dresden.de/Bilde...ustusstr-1.jpg

Baroque "Au Petit Bazar"

http://www.neumarkt-dresden.de/Bilde...el-de-Saxe.jpg


http://www.neumarkt-dresden.de/Bilde.../Juedenhof.jpg


All from: Andreas Hummels / http://www.neumarkt-dresden.de/bilder-terrasse.html
__________________
GET FREE!
D W F


🔥 Tradition doesn't mean to look after the ash, but to keep the flame alive! 🔥

Highcliff liked this post
erbse no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 11th, 2012, 06:04 AM   #3352
erbse
LIBERTINED
 
erbse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: McLenBurg
Posts: 43,167
Likes (Received): 57847

More:

http://www.neumarkt-dresden.de/Bilde...andhausstr.jpg


http://www.neumarkt-dresden.de/Bilde.../Moritzstr.jpg


http://www.neumarkt-dresden.de/Bilde.../Westseite.jpg

From above / Neumarkt aerial view of Quartier VI

http://www.neumarkt-dresden.de/Bilde...e/Luftbild.jpg


All from: Andreas Hummels / http://www.neumarkt-dresden.de/bilder-terrasse.html


Personally, I think the solution by Gottfried semper (shown 3 posts above) would be more exciting, but the baroque one would be apt too. Either you want symmetry somewhere or a little "historical contrast". I prefer the latter, though.
__________________
GET FREE!
D W F


🔥 Tradition doesn't mean to look after the ash, but to keep the flame alive! 🔥

Highcliff liked this post
erbse no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 11th, 2012, 06:14 AM   #3353
erbse
LIBERTINED
 
erbse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: McLenBurg
Posts: 43,167
Likes (Received): 57847

Some more background information about the new Gewandhaus, including another design (German website): http://www.tourdresden.de/architektu...e-kontroverse/


Another very interesting German website about the Wilsdruffer Strasse blocks, including fantastic plans of the 1950s in the Stalinist-inspired "National tradition", made by Herbert Schneider (master architect of Dresden between 1955 and 63): http://www.das-neue-dresden.de/szege...r-strasse.html


This is how the Kulturpalast would have looked like, if built according to Schneider's 1953 masterplan (the 7-Sisters like highrise):

http://www.das-neue-dresden.de/images/ddr/schneider.jpg


He also planned to rebuild parts of the old town around Neumarkt already.
A model from the 1952 competition:

http://www.das-neue-dresden.de/image...neider-mod.jpg

All & more from: http://www.das-neue-dresden.de/szege...r-strasse.html


I for one would have loved to have seen parts of this realized. At least the area would be more homogenous and grand. Somehow, it'd have even been superior to some prewar conditions.
__________________
GET FREE!
D W F


🔥 Tradition doesn't mean to look after the ash, but to keep the flame alive! 🔥

Highcliff, artObserver liked this post
erbse no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 12th, 2012, 05:22 PM   #3354
SonOfThomp
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Austin TX
Posts: 290
Likes (Received): 226

Quote:
Originally Posted by erbse View Post
Hard to imagine, but we had to fight against this barbarism like lions.

I myself was strolling around Neumarkt, handing out flyers against the Gewandhaus.

I joined several commission sessions with some FDP folks to prevent this crap.
Luckily we succeeded.
Well done! Thank you. I am hoping to return to Dresden in the next year or so. I haven't visited since 1993, and am looking forward to actually seeing what has transpired in the past 20 years.
SonOfThomp no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 13th, 2012, 02:42 AM   #3355
JohnnyMass
Whatever
 
JohnnyMass's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Porto
Posts: 46,077
Likes (Received): 1493

Quote:
Originally Posted by erbse View Post
Department store "Au Petit Bazar", redesigned in 1851 by Gottfried Semper (creator of the Semper Opera)
I thought it had already been decided that the "Au Petit Bazar" would not be reconstructed like this but in its original form. There's hope still? That would be awesome.
__________________
Edit my Signature

Highcliff liked this post
JohnnyMass no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 13th, 2012, 10:14 AM   #3356
erbse
LIBERTINED
 
erbse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: McLenBurg
Posts: 43,167
Likes (Received): 57847

The investor, USD Immobilien, wants as many reconstructions as possible there.

It might well be possible he goes for the Au Petit Bazar. Only a political decision could prevent him from that, which is rather likely.

Though, the historicist shop front by semper (greenish ground floor zone) is definitely coming back at least, it appears.
__________________
GET FREE!
D W F


🔥 Tradition doesn't mean to look after the ash, but to keep the flame alive! 🔥

Highcliff liked this post
erbse no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 13th, 2012, 10:15 AM   #3357
sergionni
Registered User
 
sergionni's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Belgrade
Posts: 1,690
Likes (Received): 443

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyMass View Post
I thought it had already been decided that the "Au Petit Bazar" would not be reconstructed like this but in its original form. There's hope still? That would be awesome.
i hope so too, because it is more decorative, unlike the most of new buildings in the square!
__________________
proud to be SERB
sergionni no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 13th, 2012, 06:39 PM   #3358
Batavier
"Covfefe" ??? Enjoy!
 
Batavier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Leiden
Posts: 856
Likes (Received): 831

What are the positions of the political parties on rebuilding versus modernity?
Are there pro-rebuilding and anti-rebuilding parties in the City Council/State Parliament, or is it much more blurry?
Batavier no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 13th, 2012, 08:46 PM   #3359
sergionni
Registered User
 
sergionni's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Belgrade
Posts: 1,690
Likes (Received): 443

Quote:
Originally Posted by Batavier View Post
What are the positions of the political parties on rebuilding versus modernity?
Are there pro-rebuilding and anti-rebuilding parties in the City Council/State Parliament, or is it much more blurry?
that is very interesting question. me, as being architect myself think that problem with this reconstruction could be perceeived as problem just by architects and not by non-architect people
__________________
proud to be SERB
sergionni no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old November 14th, 2012, 12:04 AM   #3360
durden5573
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Banff, Alberta
Posts: 122
Likes (Received): 114

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyMass View Post
I thought it had already been decided that the "Au Petit Bazar" would not be reconstructed like this but in its original form. There's hope still? That would be awesome.
^ Love it! That will really close off the square nicely. Cant wait to go back and relax in the open air cafe's, very impressive.

How contentious is this amongst the citizens of Dresden? Is this a polarizing issue based on modern vs. historical recreation. Considering most of this is privately funded, I cant imagine the cost factors in to the average citizens opinion?

I was last in Dresden in 2008 and was amazed how many empty lots of rubble still remain around the city. Is anyone familiar with the Orangarie (I believe its called Der Herzogin Garten). Would be great to see a greenhouse put back in this neglected corner.

The good news is this forum will have material to discuss for another generation.
durden5573 no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
classic architecture, classic europe, construction updates, dresden, reconstruction, redevelopment, rekonstrucje, rekonstruktion, sachsen

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 07:24 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

Hosted by Blacksun, dedicated to this site too!
Forum server management by DaiTengu