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Old January 17th, 2013, 11:21 AM   #3461
sergionni
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keepthepast View Post
Like anything, different individuals and groups view the same facts with different opinions.

Do you not keep prized personal possessions in good shape so they last as part of your life for many years, if not 'forever'? If such items were broken or stolen, would it not be in your emotion to get them back in order to continue on life's road with them as you had planned and intended to enjoy? Of course, you can always replace things with something new and different; global culture (led embarrassingly by the Americans) is a throw-away culture where "new and different" is often times viewed as better than saving, cherishing, restoring, and nurturing. Rebuilding, like making a recipe again or a suit of clothes styled from a previous design, etc, is not kitsch but a admission that something so good should be retained and remade for future generations to enjoy. To deny future generations of such joy and beauty seems somewhat unkind and selfish. We all deserve the best life has to offer, both past and future.
i agree in most parts, but, can you get back something that is destroyed and that vanished? i donít think so. you can get back a replica of it, but the material used in replica is new, and that structure can not be considered as "restored" because it is brand new. it is a simple copy, a replica, better or worse, probably not even 100% same with all things being exactly on the same position as they used to be. the existence of new replica is now based on emotional needs. then we realize that it is just simple emotion that is involved, and that is ok if u ask me, but we have to admit that it is just that - our emotion. from what i read here, everything is mostly based on "beautiful" "ugly" "i like it" "i hate it" which is the emotion....and when we are being emotional, then....hm..donít want to finish this sentence just because i talk about it, doenst mena that i am against it.

and i cant wait to visit dresden and see how all looks like now. i would love that attitude in my country toward rebuilding old destroyed things is more like in this dresden/postdam case.
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Old January 17th, 2013, 12:45 PM   #3462
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I will always prefer a replica instead of square/matchbox commie buildings.
There are also commie buildings that look ok
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Old January 19th, 2013, 06:47 PM   #3463
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What's wrong about emotion? btw., a place that makes you feel good and cosy is better for your psyche...
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Old January 19th, 2013, 11:53 PM   #3464
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What's wrong about emotion? btw., a place that makes you feel good and cosy is better for your psyche...
Agree completely. There is little people do that cannot be traced to an emotional level. Nearly all marketing is based on emotional cues to drive behavior. Choices are based on feelings, likeabitlities, tastes and how one subjectively as well as rationally evaluates an issue; all such measures rely heavily on emotional issues.

Studies have shown that purely logical/practical decisions almost always lead to some level of buyer/consumer remorse or cognitive dissonance...and the desire to more sooner than later make alternate choices.

Why are most post cards, miniature keepsakes, tourist attractions, etc, and ALL of the photo displays in the (contemporary) Innside Hotel in the Neumarkt of the classic/baroque/pre WWII cityscape? Answer: because the post war "new" structures simply do not enrapture the emotions of the vast majority of people.

there, of course, are many modernist/contempary buildings that cause people to stop and stare with delight, but not the 40s, 50s, 60s, and 70s examples in Dresden.
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Old February 2nd, 2013, 08:09 AM   #3465
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Any updates?
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Old February 2nd, 2013, 10:44 PM   #3466
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Any updates?
Yes.





You can find more on http://www.bausituation-dresden.com/
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Old February 5th, 2013, 05:25 PM   #3467
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Warum koennen die Polen solche wunderbare Aufbaue nicht machen!? Ich wohne in Gdańsk (Danzig) die durch das IIWK fast ganz zerstoert wurde... und heutzutage sieht das viel schlechter als froeher (Entschuldigung fuer meine Deutschsprachkentnisse ich lerne Deutsch nur in schule und manchmal wenn ich Fernseher schaue :P )
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Old February 5th, 2013, 06:14 PM   #3468
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I sometimes wonder how some of German cities like Dresden and Berlin or across former East as in Warsaw look like in 20 years from now.

Supposedly and hopefully all the greatest and now either lost or in rubble or under construction ones are already there and many new ones are being added. There is so much potential all across the eastern parts of Europe.
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Old February 5th, 2013, 06:15 PM   #3469
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iMaciek View Post
Warum koennen die Polen solche wunderbare Aufbaue nicht machen!? Ich wohne in Gdańsk (Danzig) die durch das IIWK fast ganz zerstoert wurde... und heutzutage sieht das viel schlechter als froeher (Entschuldigung fuer meine Deutschsprachkentnisse ich lerne Deutsch nur in schule und manchmal wenn ich Fernseher schaue :P )
We are here in an english thread, so I will answer you in english.

I thought that Gdansk is beautifully reconstructed. In Germany your city is famous for its great reconstruction of the old town. In Dresden it is actually only a very little part of the city, which they reconstructed. Most of prewar Dresden will never come again.
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Old February 5th, 2013, 07:28 PM   #3470
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^
Why do you say never? I bet back in 1980 they would have never even guess the Freincurch or however its spelled would get rebuilt let alone all of the reconstructions happening now. Who says more of the city wont be rebuilt?
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Old February 6th, 2013, 03:09 AM   #3471
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Frauenkirche!
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Old February 6th, 2013, 03:21 AM   #3472
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For all those who doubt whether these buildings are considered 'real', the paradox of the ship of Theseus has provided a framework to ponder the question for millenia!

Regardless, the story of Dresden over the past few years is beautiful.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus
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Old February 6th, 2013, 05:50 PM   #3473
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For all those who doubt whether these buildings are considered 'real', the paradox of the ship of Theseus has provided a framework to ponder the question for millenia!

Regardless, the story of Dresden over the past few years is beautiful.
Spoken like a University of Illinois philosopher.
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Old February 6th, 2013, 06:33 PM   #3474
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Quote:
Originally Posted by storms991 View Post
For all those who doubt whether these buildings are considered 'real', the paradox of the ship of Theseus has provided a framework to ponder the question for millenia!

Regardless, the story of Dresden over the past few years is beautiful.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus
Triggers Broom something that might be lost on our non-British friends
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Old February 6th, 2013, 06:48 PM   #3475
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In his book Last Chance to See, Douglas Adams observed:


The Golden Pavilion in the 21st century.
I remembered once, in Japan, having been to see the Gold Pavilion Temple in Kyoto and being mildly surprised at quite how well it had weathered the passage of time since it was first built in the fourteenth century. I was told it hadn't weathered well at all, and had in fact been burnt to the ground twice in this century. "So it isn't the original building?" I had asked my Japanese guide.
"But yes, of course it is," he insisted, rather surprised at my question.
"But it's burnt down?"
"Yes."
"Twice."
"Many times."
"And rebuilt."
"Of course. It is an important and historic building."
"With completely new materials."
"But of course. It was burnt down."
"So how can it be the same building?"
"It is always the same building."

I had to admit to myself that this was in fact a perfectly rational point of view, it merely started from an unexpected premise. The idea of the building, the intention of it, its design, are all immutable and are the essence of the building. The intention of the original builders is what survives. The wood of which the design is constructed decays and is replaced when necessary. To be overly concerned with the original materials, which are merely sentimental souvenirs of the past, is to fail to see the living building itself.

—Douglas Adams, Last Chance to See, p. 149
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Old February 6th, 2013, 06:56 PM   #3476
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True dat. The intent and design matter. That's why the "Disneyland" line or arguing is so ridiculous. Dresden is just being restored to its former glory (at least in part), there's nothing artificial about it.
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Last edited by Kampflamm; February 6th, 2013 at 07:03 PM.
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Old February 7th, 2013, 12:58 AM   #3477
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GhostOfDorian View Post
We are here in an english thread, so I will answer you in english.

I thought that Gdansk is beautifully reconstructed. In Germany your city is famous for its great reconstruction of the old town. In Dresden it is actually only a very little part of the city, which they reconstructed. Most of prewar Dresden will never come again.
Ok excuse me. The truth is that the huge part of the old town has been rebuilded right after the war has ended, nevertheless there is still a lot of empty space (especially on the Granary Island) which wasn't reconstructed at all. That's why I'm so mad about it, but I also remember as my grandfather told me how our whole nation was building the city. For sure it is the best example of reconstrucion in Europe, but it's still not as beautiful as it was in it's "former glory" times. Sorry for the little OT.
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Old February 7th, 2013, 01:12 AM   #3478
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iMaciek View Post
Ok excuse me. The truth is that the huge part of the old town has been rebuilded right after the war has ended, nevertheless there is still a lot of empty space (especially on the Granary Island) which wasn't reconstructed at all. That's why I'm so mad about it, but I also remember as my grandfather told me how our whole nation was building the city. For sure it is the best example of reconstrucion in Europe, but it's still not as beautiful as it was in it's "former glory" times. Sorry for the little OT.
Your government would do well to disavow that dumb as a box of rocks Venice Charter and continue on with it's excellent Gdansk/Danzig restoration efforts.
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Old February 7th, 2013, 08:47 AM   #3479
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Quote:
Originally Posted by White Light View Post
I remembered once, in Japan, having been to see the Gold Pavilion Temple in Kyoto and being mildly surprised at quite how well it had weathered the passage of time since it was first built in the fourteenth century. I was told it hadn't weathered well at all, and had in fact been burnt to the ground twice in this century. "So it isn't the original building?" I had asked my Japanese guide.
"But yes, of course it is," he insisted, rather surprised at my question.
"But it's burnt down?"
"Yes."
"Twice."
"Many times."
"And rebuilt."
"Of course. It is an important and historic building."
"With completely new materials."
"But of course. It was burnt down."
"So how can it be the same building?"
"It is always the same building."
Mind blown.
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Old February 7th, 2013, 12:34 PM   #3480
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O, yeah... Eye opener...
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