daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > World Forums > Architecture > European Classic Architecture and Landscapes

European Classic Architecture and Landscapes All related to historical buildings and landscapes of the old world.



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old May 25th, 2013, 01:27 AM   #3661
erbse
LIBERTINED
 
erbse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: McLenBurg
Posts: 43,167
Likes (Received): 57847

^ I'd love to see it torn down, but I don't think it's gonna happen soon. In pre-war times, there was a little park on its site (next to Cosel Palace).

This thing was erected way before Frauenkirche and Neumarkt fully materialized.

Failures of the past...
__________________
GET FREE!
D W F


🔥 Tradition doesn't mean to look after the ash, but to keep the flame alive! 🔥

TheReconstructer, Highcliff liked this post
erbse no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old May 25th, 2013, 04:42 AM   #3662
The Blond Guy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 179
Likes (Received): 142

I'd like to see the empty spaces rebuild first, before we go to demolish other things.
__________________
The Blond Guy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 26th, 2013, 10:09 AM   #3663
keepthepast
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 977
Likes (Received): 1677

Quote:
Originally Posted by SonOfThomp View Post
Wonderful; thanks for posting. It's hard to believe, really ...

Regarding the above image, what's going on with the upper plane of the roof, 33 Rampische Strasse?
Good question. The slope and tapering toward the next roof line is actually somewhat consistent with the original. In former times, rather than try to match the exact height and treatment of the next roof, builders simply sloped the peak to give the appearance of blending to the next building. This actually makes 33 Rampische look much more "original".
keepthepast no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 26th, 2013, 10:13 AM   #3664
TimothyR
Ike
 
TimothyR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Born in NYC, Living in Boston
Posts: 1,264
Likes (Received): 2085

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kampflamm View Post


So...does it look about right?





That beautiful black and white photo was one of the first pictures I found of the old Dresden when I started reading about the reconstruction of the Frauenkirche several years ago. I love that photo - with the snow and the winter scene. It looks like the illustration of a legend.

I remember reading about Rampische strasse. At the time I did not read anything at all about the possibility that it would be rebuilt.

I never thought I would see it rise again.
__________________

“In keeping silent about evil, in burying it so deep within us that no sign of it appears on the surface, we are implanting it, and it will rise up a thousand fold in the future. When we neither punish nor reproach evildoers we are thereby ripping the foundations of justice from beneath new generations.”

“The meaning of earthly existence lies not, as we have grown used to thinking, in prospering but in the development of the soul.”
Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

"We are more closely connected to the invisible than to the visible"

-Novalis
TimothyR no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 26th, 2013, 10:31 AM   #3665
Kiboko
hubba hubba
 
Kiboko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,462
Likes (Received): 327

edit: double
Kiboko no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 26th, 2013, 10:31 AM   #3666
Kiboko
hubba hubba
 
Kiboko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,462
Likes (Received): 327

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcelMarceau View Post
What about that ugly building to the far right of the quartier, are there any plans to demolish it?
source: www.stadtbild-deutschland.org/
It looks very new, so i guess it won't be demolished soon. But i don't think that is a bad thing, because of its monumental appearance it blends in very well in the its faux historical surroundings. The alternation between old and new makes the citycenter of Dresden more interesting.
__________________

mb92, Highcliff liked this post
Kiboko no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 26th, 2013, 10:49 AM   #3667
TimothyR
Ike
 
TimothyR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Born in NYC, Living in Boston
Posts: 1,264
Likes (Received): 2085

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiboko View Post
faux historical surroundings.
Faux historical?

By that definition all reconstructions of damaged and/or destroyed buildings are not the real thing.
__________________

“In keeping silent about evil, in burying it so deep within us that no sign of it appears on the surface, we are implanting it, and it will rise up a thousand fold in the future. When we neither punish nor reproach evildoers we are thereby ripping the foundations of justice from beneath new generations.”

“The meaning of earthly existence lies not, as we have grown used to thinking, in prospering but in the development of the soul.”
Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

"We are more closely connected to the invisible than to the visible"

-Novalis
TimothyR no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 26th, 2013, 11:03 AM   #3668
Kiboko
hubba hubba
 
Kiboko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,462
Likes (Received): 327

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimothyR View Post
Faux historical?

By that definition all reconstructions of damaged and/or destroyed buildings are not the real thing.
Indeed. But by saying that i don't mean the new buildings are worthless. I truly like the effort that is put into creating a pleasant new citycenter with reconstructed old buildings, but you can never fully recover the pre war situation.
Kiboko no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 26th, 2013, 06:49 PM   #3669
erbse
LIBERTINED
 
erbse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: McLenBurg
Posts: 43,167
Likes (Received): 57847

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiboko View Post
The alternation between old and new makes the citycenter of Dresden more interesting.
No, not even a tiny bit. Dresden should get rid of most of its modernist crap in the vicinity of baroque beauty as soon as possible.

Though I'd agree there are numerous interesting modern solitary buildings in Dresden (like the VW Manufaktur).
__________________
GET FREE!
D W F


🔥 Tradition doesn't mean to look after the ash, but to keep the flame alive! 🔥

Highcliff liked this post
erbse no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 26th, 2013, 09:39 PM   #3670
william of waco
Registered User
 
william of waco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Hill Country
Posts: 231
Likes (Received): 258

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiboko View Post
Indeed. But by saying that i don't mean the new buildings are worthless. I truly like the effort that is put into creating a pleasant new citycenter with reconstructed old buildings, but you can never fully recover the pre war situation.
Imagine if that modern building had been placed in one of the corners of the reconstructed Old Town Market in Warsaw. It would be unthinkable since most of that city's old town has been rebuilt to a near exact pre-war appearance. This same ideal should be practiced in Dresden, at least for the Neumarkt and its adjoining streets and alleyways.
__________________

erbse, KamZolt, Highcliff liked this post
william of waco no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 26th, 2013, 09:45 PM   #3671
Kampflamm
Endorsed by the NRA
 
Kampflamm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Occupied Europe
Posts: 23,654

+ the building looks like complete shit with its teal grid pattern.
__________________
Free German passport

"I think it's a privilege to call yourself a Wunderbarler and it's something that you have to earn."

Highcliff liked this post
Kampflamm está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old May 27th, 2013, 01:15 AM   #3672
peter871
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 57
Likes (Received): 8

does anyone know which architecture offices are involved in the reconstruction? It's do difficult nowdays to find an office in Europe that practices traditional architecture. young architects have no one to learn from.
__________________

White Light, Kame, Tom Kyle, Highcliff liked this post

Last edited by peter871; May 28th, 2013 at 12:07 AM.
peter871 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 27th, 2013, 02:44 AM   #3673
MarcelMarceau
Registered User
 
MarcelMarceau's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 12
Likes (Received): 25

Why are some Germans obsessed with the "contrast" between classic and modern? The Neumarkt should have been kept strictly historical. There is plenty of space elsewhere in Dresden to experiment with modern architecture. The argument that if there was no destruction, the market would probably look like this anyway is IMHO flawed since there are plenty of plazas in other places such as Florence, Rome, Paris, Madrid, etc. that have been preserved perfectly until now with no modern additions. Just my opinion.
__________________
MarcelMarceau no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 27th, 2013, 03:08 PM   #3674
hateman
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 695
Likes (Received): 1796

The distinction between "faux" and "real" architecture is completely arbitrary, particularly when talking about reconstructions. One could just as well argue that these traditional buildings are the "real architecture" of Dresden, i.e. the actual, the original, and the vernacular architecture of Dresden, whereas modern architecture is simply a copy of a generic global model.

You can blame these tedious debates on the extreme politicization of architecture in the 20th century, by fascists, totalitarians, communists, leftists, academics etc. A lot of people bought into the idea that modern architecture was the true architecture, that it could correct bourgeois, nationalist, reactionary, etc. tendencies. Plenty of sides had arguments against traditional architecture, and supported "their" architecture.

And then there are the bean counters and profit maximizers who try to convince the public that traditional styled buildings are impossible to build economically.

I'm fine with modern buildings coexisting with traditional buildings in Dresden. It'll show people how poorly modern compares to the traditional, and how out of place it looks. Dresden's restoration will speak for itself. Its existence is an argument for the traditional.
__________________
hateman no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 27th, 2013, 11:11 PM   #3675
keepthepast
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 977
Likes (Received): 1677

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiboko View Post
It looks very new, so i guess it won't be demolished soon. But i don't think that is a bad thing, because of its monumental appearance it blends in very well in the its faux historical surroundings. The alternation between old and new makes the citycenter of Dresden more interesting.
I think the problem with the sentiment posted here is the word usage of "faux". There's really nothing fake about the new construction. No more than Beyounce's rendition of a previous song is fake.

Better that the new buildings be referred reconstructed, rebuilt, or reinvented. The "historic" aspect is not simply the actual materials and specific bricks and mortar, rather the designs, shapes, integration with the whole and the intended appearance as laid out by the original architects.
__________________

NUMERATZI, Highcliff liked this post
keepthepast no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 28th, 2013, 06:59 PM   #3676
durden5573
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Banff, Alberta
Posts: 122
Likes (Received): 114

When I went to Dubrovnik, I did not think "wow, what a faux replica of the original". In 100 years the patina of fresh paint will be aged and the city center of Dresden will be returned to its former glory.

Looking back in history, most German cities were fairly dynamic, as architectures changes, buildings were demolished and new creations took their place. I'm a firm proponent of rebuilding an authentic classical city center in Dresden, but doing so would be more 'faux' then a mix of classical and tasteful modern creations.
durden5573 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 28th, 2013, 07:30 PM   #3677
MarcelMarceau
Registered User
 
MarcelMarceau's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 12
Likes (Received): 25

Throughout German history, houses have always been constantly replaced with newer architecture of the day, however no matter what style was adopted (gothic, renaissance, art-nouveau, etc) the final design has always been "germanic" in its execution and in most cases has always blended in with the older surroundings. However, nowadays German architects are more interested with the international style which could easily fit Melbourne, New York or Sao Paolo. It is almost like German architects are ashamed of their heritage and go out of their way to design flat roofs and boring plain façades and a special obsession with glass. Unfortunately this is still happening in Dresden as it has already happened in other cities after the war.
__________________
MarcelMarceau no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 28th, 2013, 10:14 PM   #3678
keepthepast
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 977
Likes (Received): 1677

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcelMarceau View Post
Throughout German history, houses have always been constantly replaced with newer architecture of the day, however no matter what style was adopted (gothic, renaissance, art-nouveau, etc) the final design has always been "germanic" in its execution and in most cases has always blended in with the older surroundings. However, nowadays German architects are more interested with the international style which could easily fit Melbourne, New York or Sao Paolo. It is almost like German architects are ashamed of their heritage and go out of their way to design flat roofs and boring plain façades and a special obsession with glass. Unfortunately this is still happening in Dresden as it has already happened in other cities after the war.
Good points, however, let's not forget who invented the modern/internationalist style of architecture. It was the Bauhaus and other German designers 100+ years ago. So it i definitely true, to follow your progression of how German architecture has evolved, that the modernist stuff would fit in and blend perfectly.

The modernist style can look great when applied in the right setting and without deconstructing historical areas. For example, the Medienhafen in Dusseldorf makes sense and looks very interesting. Time will tell if it has longevity the way the Neumarkt has had.
keepthepast no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 1st, 2013, 02:14 PM   #3679
Kampflamm
Endorsed by the NRA
 
Kampflamm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Occupied Europe
Posts: 23,654

Excavations:











Rampische Straße:











Source: http://www.bausituation-dresden.com/
__________________
Free German passport

"I think it's a privilege to call yourself a Wunderbarler and it's something that you have to earn."

Cager, BringMe, iMaciek, mb92, Tom Kyle and 3 others liked this post
Kampflamm está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old June 1st, 2013, 03:39 PM   #3680
wolfpaw
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 304
Likes (Received): 116

When's the house at the end of Rampische Straße due to be finished?
wolfpaw no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
classic architecture, classic europe, construction updates, dresden, reconstruction, redevelopment, rekonstrucje, rekonstruktion, sachsen

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 07:25 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

Hosted by Blacksun, dedicated to this site too!
Forum server management by DaiTengu