daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > World Forums > Architecture > European Classic Architecture and Landscapes

European Classic Architecture and Landscapes All related to historical buildings and landscapes of the old world.



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old July 1st, 2013, 09:12 PM   #3781
keepthepast
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 977
Likes (Received): 1677

The manner with which the designers site-planned the new buildings around the kutlurpalast looks like the long term possibility exists that the kulturpalast will go. The new plans would normally have followed the footprint of existing structures, that are intended to be long-term keepers, by placing the new buildings in relative concert with the existing. As we see, the kulturpalast looks poorly placed and does not relate spacially with the new designs for QVII. To me that signals an indication that this monster may not be forever.
__________________

erbse liked this post
keepthepast no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old July 1st, 2013, 10:05 PM   #3782
flierfy
Registered User
 
flierfy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,882
Likes (Received): 296

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kampflamm View Post
Yet even more trash glorifying a past that has never been as romantic as these fašades want to make us believe. Replicating lost building or rather replicating the fašade of lost building is intellectually quite poor. Dresden and any other city for that matter deserves something better than this reactionary crap.
__________________
Rippachtal.de
flierfy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 1st, 2013, 11:03 PM   #3783
JLAG
Registered User
 
JLAG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Íresund
Posts: 1,922
Likes (Received): 504

It just makes me happy seeing these we renderings. Beautiful.
JLAG no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 1st, 2013, 11:40 PM   #3784
Knuddel Knutsch
******
 
Knuddel Knutsch's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 438
Likes (Received): 286

Quote:
Originally Posted by flierfy View Post
Yet even more trash glorifying a past that has never been as romantic as these fašades want to make us believe. Replicating lost building or rather replicating the fašade of lost building is intellectually quite poor. Dresden and any other city for that matter deserves something better than this reactionary crap.
The only problem is, that, day and again, modern architects proof that they are not able to deliver this "something better", that you are talking about.

And furthermore, they have enought areas in and around Dresden, where they can proof their skills.
__________________
Sub des Tages
Knuddel Knutsch no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 2nd, 2013, 01:23 AM   #3785
socrates#1fan
Registered User
 
socrates#1fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 2,605
Likes (Received): 1318

Quote:
Originally Posted by flierfy View Post
Yet even more trash glorifying a past that has never been as romantic as these fašades want to make us believe. Replicating lost building or rather replicating the fašade of lost building is intellectually quite poor. Dresden and any other city for that matter deserves something better than this reactionary crap.
The inability to separate the negatives of the past from its positives and borrow accordingly implies a deep intellectual simplicity and inability (or unwillingness) to think about things on a complex level.

The reconstruction of Dresden's lost buildings does not mean they are going to start pulling bonnets over the heads of women and using candles to light houses. Dresden is taking a valuable and positive element of the past (one that was ripped away from the city) and bringing it back to create a better future.
__________________
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -Benjamin Franklin

"I donĺt know what it is about Hoosiers, but wherever you go there is always a Hoosier doing something very important there."-Kurt Vonnegut
socrates#1fan no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 2nd, 2013, 01:24 AM   #3786
william of waco
Registered User
 
william of waco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Hill Country
Posts: 232
Likes (Received): 258

Quote:
Originally Posted by flierfy View Post
Dresden and any other city for that matter deserves something better than this reactionary crap.
I would be interested in seeing a few examples of what you think the Neumarkt deserves.
__________________

mhjo liked this post
william of waco no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 2nd, 2013, 01:27 AM   #3787
erbse
LIBERTINED
 
erbse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: McLenBurg
Posts: 43,237
Likes (Received): 57916

Prague, Florence and Amsterdam should have the intellectual guts to tear down their reactionary old towns and build some way cooler modernist concrete blocks instead, we're all rooting for it aren't we.
__________________
GET FREE!
D W F


🔥 Tradition doesn't mean to look after the ash, but to keep the flame alive! 🔥

keepthepast, Highcliff, Photodash liked this post
erbse no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 2nd, 2013, 10:13 AM   #3788
Skymino
Ambrosian User
 
Skymino's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Milan - Porta Venezia
Posts: 24,051
Likes (Received): 5474

I think that reconstruction makes sense only if buildings have original parts, like capitals, columns and decorations have been preserved. As it's happened for the Frauenkirche or the British Hotel. For other buildings that does'nt have original parts I found the idea of ​​building a modern building fantastic, but that may be in harmony with the context.
I visited Dresden years ago, back when they were building the Frauenkirche and was an ugly city and bleak. I went back two more times after the reconstruction took place and the look and feel I found was fantastic, a real city was back in life.
__________________
.





Urbanfile Blog - MyFlickr - MilÓn l'era inscý
Skymino no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 2nd, 2013, 07:45 PM   #3789
erbse
LIBERTINED
 
erbse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: McLenBurg
Posts: 43,237
Likes (Received): 57916

And you think it'd be the same good impression if most of the buildings were not reconstructed, but plain modernist boxes - because there were no original parts left?

I don't get it.
__________________
GET FREE!
D W F


🔥 Tradition doesn't mean to look after the ash, but to keep the flame alive! 🔥
erbse no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 2nd, 2013, 09:44 PM   #3790
bolg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Stockholm
Posts: 916
Likes (Received): 759

Quote:
Originally Posted by flierfy View Post
Yet even more trash glorifying a past that has never been as romantic as these fašades want to make us believe. Replicating lost building or rather replicating the fašade of lost building is intellectually quite poor. Dresden and any other city for that matter deserves something better than this reactionary crap.
And yet most people (actually, everyone except for a few architects) would chose a baroque reconstruction above a modernist or post-modernist structure. That doesn't mean people long back to constant wars against France, plagues, sovereign monarchs, high infant mortality and a life expectancy of 52.
__________________

erbse, Mruczek, socrates#1fan, Highcliff liked this post
bolg no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 2nd, 2013, 10:41 PM   #3791
hateman
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 695
Likes (Received): 1798

Instead of misusing their clearly superior intellect and culture to lob superficial brickbats, devotees of the modernist regime and its dicta are better off trying to explain why people (including the wealthy, or educated, or neither) continue to favor traditional forms of architecture over modernism. Unfortunately that requires understanding the viewpoints of other humans, instead of focussing on your own superior intellect and aesthetics.
__________________
hateman no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 3rd, 2013, 12:53 AM   #3792
erbse
LIBERTINED
 
erbse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: McLenBurg
Posts: 43,237
Likes (Received): 57916

Btw, most people couldn't tell the difference between a baroque and a renaissance gable.

Thus it's not a trade of the intellectually hampered to work out faithful reconstructions of traditional buildings. By no f*cking means.

It's a highly intellectually challenging and yet pleasing task to conceive of, carry out and master the reconstruction of a historical masterpiece. Just like it's a challenge to reconstruct a gone or partly gone painting or sculpture.

I never understood why there's double standards when it comes to art.

No modernist would cry out loud if the Mona Lisa was reconstructed after it burned.
Yet they're crying like babies if someone dares to reconstruct a burned or dismantled building. Certainly because they feel their profession might be undermined. Because it shows how badly they lack the talent and eye for the aesthetically pleasant details of former generations.
__________________
GET FREE!
D W F


🔥 Tradition doesn't mean to look after the ash, but to keep the flame alive! 🔥
erbse no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 3rd, 2013, 01:13 AM   #3793
Judge Roy Beam
Registered User
 
Judge Roy Beam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 184
Likes (Received): 53

Quote:
Originally Posted by erbse View Post
Prague, Florence and Amsterdam should have the intellectual guts to tear down their reactionary old towns and build some way cooler modernist concrete blocks instead, we're all rooting for it aren't we.
The really scary thing is that there's lots of mental defectives out there who would welcome just that
__________________
Judge Roy Beam no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 3rd, 2013, 01:21 AM   #3794
TimothyR
Ike
 
TimothyR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Born in NYC, Living in Boston
Posts: 1,264
Likes (Received): 2085

Quote:
Originally Posted by flierfy View Post
Yet even more trash glorifying a past that has never been as romantic as these fašades want to make us believe. Replicating lost building or rather replicating the fašade of lost building is intellectually quite poor. Dresden and any other city for that matter deserves something better than this reactionary crap.
That is what you see when you see Dresden?

I feel as if we are from different worlds. Perceive with your soul, not just the abstract intellect. It is a creation that is the result of love as well as genius.
__________________

ôIn keeping silent about evil, in burying it so deep within us that no sign of it appears on the surface, we are implanting it, and it will rise up a thousand fold in the future. When we neither punish nor reproach evildoers we are thereby ripping the foundations of justice from beneath new generations.ö

ôThe meaning of earthly existence lies not, as we have grown used to thinking, in prospering but in the development of the soul.ö
Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

"We are more closely connected to the invisible than to the visible"

-Novalis
TimothyR no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 3rd, 2013, 01:27 AM   #3795
erbse
LIBERTINED
 
erbse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: McLenBurg
Posts: 43,237
Likes (Received): 57916

The harmonious presence and beauty of a location is called genius loci for a reason!


You can just feel it. Dresden is rediscovering its genius loci. Makes your heart burst.
__________________
GET FREE!
D W F


🔥 Tradition doesn't mean to look after the ash, but to keep the flame alive! 🔥
erbse no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 3rd, 2013, 01:40 PM   #3796
Skymino
Ambrosian User
 
Skymino's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Milan - Porta Venezia
Posts: 24,051
Likes (Received): 5474

I love this type of reconstruction, in fact, I think Dresden deserves this.
My consideration was from the point of view of who is an art expert and consider this a banal copy operation, a kind of amusement park.

That's why I said that in my opinion using original parts from the original building, it gives more value to the rebuilding.

With this I say that are doing a great job, and I can see it completed to visit Dresden again.
__________________
.





Urbanfile Blog - MyFlickr - MilÓn l'era inscý

erbse, Mruczek, Highcliff liked this post
Skymino no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 3rd, 2013, 05:20 PM   #3797
keepthepast
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 977
Likes (Received): 1677

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skymino View Post
I love this type of reconstruction, in fact, I think Dresden deserves this.
My consideration was from the point of view of who is an art expert and consider this a banal copy operation, a kind of amusement park.

That's why I said that in my opinion using original parts from the original building, it gives more value to the rebuilding.

With this I say that are doing a great job, and I can see it completed to visit Dresden again.
Thanks for clarifying, but while I understand your point of view, it seems you're arguing against yourself. When you criticize Dresden as a "banal copy operation and amusment park" how, on the other hand, do you "love" it?

In really, it's the 21st century. I am glad the reconstruction updates ceiling heights, HVAC, structural integrity, efficient use of materials, etc. In so doing, the planners and designers have responsibily provided the classic cityscape that will last 200+ years while effectively integrating modern lifestyles and needs. Even the Frauenkirche is not 100% accurate if measured against the critics' definition of "fake".

IMHO, anyone who describes Dresden's reconstruction in terms of Disneyland has never been to Disneyland, never been to Dresden, or doesn't appreciate how architectural heritage is maintained.
__________________
keepthepast no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 3rd, 2013, 06:04 PM   #3798
Skymino
Ambrosian User
 
Skymino's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Milan - Porta Venezia
Posts: 24,051
Likes (Received): 5474

"banal copy operation and amusment park" it's not my thought, but is the thought of someone who criticizes this operation.
__________________
.





Urbanfile Blog - MyFlickr - MilÓn l'era inscý
Skymino no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 3rd, 2013, 06:08 PM   #3799
durden5573
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Banff, Alberta
Posts: 122
Likes (Received): 114

Quote:
Originally Posted by keepthepast View Post

In really, it's the 21st century. I am glad the reconstruction updates ceiling heights, HVAC, structural integrity, efficient use of materials, etc. In so doing, the planners and designers have responsibily provided the classic cityscape that will last 200+ years while effectively integrating modern lifestyles and needs. Even the Frauenkirche is not 100% accurate if measured against the critics' definition of "fake".
Very good points, something I absolutely agree with. Modern reconstructions use more efficient materials and construction styles that reduce energy consumption and dramatically reduce maintenance costs. Of course it can be argued that this deviates from 'authentic' recreation, but in my opinion the exterior architecture is what we need to maintain, not the out dated construction methods.
__________________

Chadoh25, socrates#1fan, Highcliff liked this post
durden5573 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 9th, 2013, 03:04 AM   #3800
socrates#1fan
Registered User
 
socrates#1fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 2,605
Likes (Received): 1318

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skymino View Post
My consideration was from the point of view of who is an art expert and consider this a banal copy operation, a kind of amusement park.

n.
One can be an expert of art history, of proportion, etc. but one cannot be an expert of beauty nor state an opinion with the assumption that their expertise elevates their opinions of beauty above that of their fellow citizens.

The average person can see beauty quite clearly, this is why even the illiterate and dumb flock to the classical monuments of old. The modernist has to be "educated in aesthetics" to appreciate what is in reality quite hideous.
__________________
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -Benjamin Franklin

"I donĺt know what it is about Hoosiers, but wherever you go there is always a Hoosier doing something very important there."-Kurt Vonnegut
socrates#1fan no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
classic architecture, classic europe, construction updates, dresden, reconstruction, redevelopment, rekonstrucje, rekonstruktion, sachsen

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 02:44 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

Hosted by Blacksun, dedicated to this site too!
Forum server management by DaiTengu