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Old August 27th, 2013, 01:09 AM   #3821
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Also it might be "transformed" later when they regret the modernistic looks of it
That is the old police building and the only reason the western elevation is a stark and flat surface is that the horrible, concrete prison-like addition that was added after WWII was attached there. The concrete atrocity was demolished after the Wall came down, and the severing left this facade. Don't worry, this will be redone to match the other three sides or be fully disquised by the future buildings of the quarter we see in the emtpy foreground of the photo.
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Old August 27th, 2013, 02:48 AM   #3822
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I believe he was referring to the hotel.
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Old August 27th, 2013, 09:29 PM   #3823
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Ha! See how "that gray building" didn't even bring my focus to the already completed structure in the middle of the block, which is satisfactory to me. I agree with Saxonia, it's not that bad and blends fairly nicely. If this type of one-off can make the modernists happy, we can live with it.
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Old August 27th, 2013, 11:29 PM   #3824
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Yeah, it's not that bad, especially when seen from the street since, as you say, it kind of blends well with the rest of the buildings.

And as soon as the other side of the street gets built, it will barely be noticed.
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Old September 6th, 2013, 12:06 PM   #3825
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Source: http://www.bausituation-dresden.com/
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Old September 6th, 2013, 12:49 PM   #3826
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Heritage cities seem to have a problem with contemporary architecture and in general they just seem a little bit confused ; never sure of what they want to be - ever evolving cities or pretty but dead museums.

It is the same here in the UK ; Bath rejected a rather wonderful scheme that would have saved derelict historic warehouse. Reasoning being that a glass extension would somehow ruin and be out of character to the rest of Bath. Derelict warehouse, it seems, fits in better. Ironically the proposal was outside historic centre..... It seems change averse councils use UNESCO as a justification for their dullness.

Ironically such stuffy old dinosaurs miss the point completely - if people such as them existed in the past, neither Dresden nor Bath would exist today ('sorry but that Baroque palace will totally ruin character of this filthy, stinking, timber-framed shack filled hole').
Still situation in Dresden is not so bad ; the city has some truly fantastic modern buildings (UFA-Palast, New Synagogue etc) and I think it should be allowed to be what it always has been - a centre for development of contemporary architecture.
Hold on now...Hans Kollhoff is doing exactly that using modern techniques and fitting it to the old...in masterful way.

http://www.hierner.info/photography/...s_Kollhoff.htm
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Old September 6th, 2013, 04:34 PM   #3827
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Love your screen name and moniker, fountainkopf!

Nice to bring back comments from a couple years ago to the discussion; time sometimes changes one's points of view.

El Greco has some good points but in most examples of modernist extensions or renovations of historic buildings, it shouldn't be an all or nothing venture. The Bath example is typical of the conflict in many cities. Why have to chose between a derelict warehouse and a bastardized renovation? Like politicians, architects don't seem to compromise well.

As for the dinosaur comment, I doubt very much that the historical record would show that the major buildings which preservationists wish to rebuild or renovate once replaced structures of equal or greater historical significance and beauty.
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Old September 6th, 2013, 08:59 PM   #3828
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Still situation in Dresden is not so bad ; the city has some truly fantastic modern buildings (UFA-Palast, New Synagogue etc) and I think it should be allowed to be what it always has been - a centre for development of contemporary architecture.[/URL]
Yes: just not in the Neumarkt.

I like the link. Reminds me of American Art Deco.
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Old September 7th, 2013, 12:54 AM   #3829
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As for the dinosaur comment, I doubt very much that the historical record would show that the major buildings which preservationists wish to rebuild or renovate once replaced structures of equal or greater historical significance and beauty.
Sure they did, Victorians destroyed Georgian and Medieval buildings (just google Sir Paul Pindars House or Crosby Hall) for their stuff, the stuff which we now want to protect/rebuild. If they used the kind of logic on display here then these 'well beloved landmarks' would not exist, so why shouldn't we be allowed to build landmarks of our times?
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Old September 7th, 2013, 01:25 AM   #3830
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If they used the kind of logic on display here then these 'well beloved landmarks' would not exist, so why shouldn't we be allowed to build landmarks of our times?
Maybe because we want to do it better than our predecessors? Apart from that, there's enough space to build modern landmarks.
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Old September 7th, 2013, 12:55 PM   #3831
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^ That. Additionally, modernist architecture, unlike any other previous style, just doesn't adapt to historical surroundings. It doesn't want to. Modernist stuff might work where it doesn't harm these ensembles, but it hardly ever does right beneath them.
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Old September 7th, 2013, 02:27 PM   #3832
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Originally Posted by El_Greco View Post
Sure they did, Victorians destroyed Georgian and Medieval buildings (just google Sir Paul Pindars House or Crosby Hall) for their stuff, the stuff which we now want to protect/rebuild. If they used the kind of logic on display here then these 'well beloved landmarks' would not exist, so why shouldn't we be allowed to build landmarks of our times?
During Victorian times the rules of preservation were completely different. Historical awareness wasn't as developed as it is today.
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Old September 7th, 2013, 02:37 PM   #3833
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Maybe because we want to do it better than our predecessors? Apart from that, there's enough space to build modern landmarks.
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^ That. Additionally, modernist architecture, unlike any other previous style, just doesn't adapt to historical surroundings. It doesn't want to. Modernist stuff might work where it doesn't harm these ensembles, but it hardly ever does right beneath them.
A lot of the time dull contemporary architecture is the direct result of conservationists who force architects to produce 'inoffensive' designs which don't 'overshadow' the old stuff. There's plenty of such cases in London where exciting designs have been dumbed down and turned into eyesores.
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Old September 7th, 2013, 02:40 PM   #3834
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There isn't much need to destroy older buildings to build grand, new ones. It might've been relevant in pre-industrial times when cities still had defensive walls, but not now when land is abundant in many cities and countries.
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Old September 7th, 2013, 02:41 PM   #3835
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There isn't much need to destroy older buildings to build grand, new ones. It might've been relevant in pre-industrial times when cities still had defensive walls, but not now when land is abundant in many cities and countries.
What, sprawl?
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Old September 7th, 2013, 04:06 PM   #3836
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A lot of the time dull contemporary architecture is the direct result of conservationists who force architects to produce 'inoffensive' designs which don't 'overshadow' the old stuff. There's plenty of such cases in London where exciting designs have been dumbed down and turned into eyesores.
Let's just be honest. The reason is simple, modernist architecture is built on a completely different philosophy, an inferior philosophy that puts more focus on destruction, disorganization, and loudness than it does order, beauty, and flow.

People try to prevent modernist architects from completely defacing their cities. "exciting" is just another way of saying faddish. To those who still have the childish need to be "cool" these buildings will be eyesores tomorrow, but the buildings are already eyesores to those who are not slaves to fads.
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Old September 7th, 2013, 04:16 PM   #3837
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Let's just be honest. The reason is simple, modernist architecture is built on a completely different philosophy, an inferior philosophy that puts more focus on destruction, disorganization, and loudness than it does order, beauty, and flow.

People try to prevent modernist architects from completely defacing their cities. "exciting" is just another way of saying faddish. To those who still have the childish need to be "cool" these buildings will be eyesores tomorrow, but the buildings are already eyesores to those who are not slaves to fads.
I agree modernism fits old environment sometimes very poorly. Sometimes also post modern is as bad. Some new architecture OTOH then again fits pretty well..depends how much eternal laws of beauty and function etc have been implemented in the design...is the scale right, is the street scape ok, are the materials correct, how about proportions and gestaltung in general etc ?

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Old September 7th, 2013, 04:29 PM   #3838
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Love your screen name and moniker, fountainkopf!

Nice to bring back comments from a couple years ago to the discussion; time sometimes changes one's points of view.

El Greco has some good points but in most examples of modernist extensions or renovations of historic buildings, it shouldn't be an all or nothing venture. The Bath example is typical of the conflict in many cities. Why have to chose between a derelict warehouse and a bastardized renovation? Like politicians, architects don't seem to compromise well.

As for the dinosaur comment, I doubt very much that the historical record would show that the major buildings which preservationists wish to rebuild or renovate once replaced structures of equal or greater historical significance and beauty.
Thank you for the kind words keepthepast !

Sometimes an architect only seems to draw the one house he/she is used to and thus fitting a new bldg into old environment/city may be very difficult.
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Old September 7th, 2013, 04:52 PM   #3839
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Let's just be honest. The reason is simple, modernist architecture is built on a completely different philosophy, an inferior philosophy that puts more focus on destruction, disorganization, and loudness than it does order, beauty, and flow.
Rogers is a big admirer of old architecture and often talks about it, so I don't think contemporary architects are philistines dreaming of destroying the heritage. Besides wasn't all architecture 'loud'? What about St Peter's in Rome? Haussmann's Paris? Houses of Parliament in London? In many cases they destroyed beautiful old structures.

Each case should be judged on its own merits. If its just another bland box then yes it is ugly and probably won't add anything interesting to the built environment, but if a replacement is an exciting design (ie Guggenheim Bilbao or Central Library in Seattle etc), then why shouldn't it be built?

Quote:
People try to prevent modernist architects from completely defacing their cities. "exciting" is just another way of saying faddish. To those who still have the childish need to be "cool" these buildings will be eyesores tomorrow, but the buildings are already eyesores to those who are not slaves to fads.
Architecture does not really matter that much, the most important thing is the public realm. A street lined with old buildings but completely filled with signs and other clutter is just as ugly and damaging as a concrete monstrosity.

All architecture is 'faddish', be it Baroque or Art-Nouveau and at the end of the day it all boils down to what you would rather see built - boring or exciting architecture.
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Old September 7th, 2013, 05:10 PM   #3840
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What, sprawl?
Why not?
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