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Old September 10th, 2013, 06:38 PM   #3861
MRouchell
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiaren View Post
Libeskind's extension of the Military Museum is imho a really great and impressive piece of architecture! Or should I say piece of art?

image hosted on flickr

MHM Dresden / Keil by 96dpi, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

MHM Dresden by 96dpi, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

MHM Dresden by 96dpi, on Flickr

It can be (if necessary) removed in the future, so it doesn't actually harm the historic building and it doesn't hurt any historic cityscape, as the Military Museum stands on its own in a park area.
The addition actually cuts into the existing building and destroys the interiors. It can't be simply removed. To propose a design such as Libeskind's takes no talent and very much disrespect for historic architecture.
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Old September 10th, 2013, 06:39 PM   #3862
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That Dresden Building (The Military Museum)

We have something similar where I live. A modernistic building from the late 1950s that houses the state supreme court has an addition that is neo-classical. The local joke is that it looks like "Starship Enterprise docked at Versailles." The one in Dresden is far worse.
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Old September 10th, 2013, 08:18 PM   #3863
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I find both the Libeskind and Gehry projects to be disturbing and ugly. The Dresden project is rather typical Libeskind, since despite his efforts to intellectualize and rationalize the geometries for particular projects, he really doesn't do anything else except the "jagged shard". Here its particularly disturbing for what it does to the existing classical building - his contempt for it is very clear.

Frank Gehry has always been a difficult and complicated case for me. I often find his buildings to be beautiful objects, especially when they are stand alone structures and amount to abstract compositions. Bilbao Guggenheim and The Disney Hall in Los Angeles come to mind.

But there is another group of his projects where he takes a recognized building type and deconstructs it. The Prague project is a good example. He takes a much beloved building type - the classic 4-5 story European city core building, and he warps and twists it into something from a funhouse mirror. It's perverse - it's almost as if he's saying, "see this building that all of you find so lovely and comforting - well not so fast - look at what I can do to it." I find it arrogant and narcissistic. I hate that building.
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Old September 10th, 2013, 08:38 PM   #3864
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Deconstructivists are probably the only architects that can still do exciting architecture, instead of boring or apologist. I guess that's why their buildings provoke such debate.
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Old September 10th, 2013, 08:49 PM   #3865
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The thing is, Libeskind wouldn't have done this with a modern building like a commiblock or something else. He need to destroy the poportions of the old building to create his own architectural "message". Thats not okay in my opinion, especially not in Dresden.
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Old September 10th, 2013, 08:58 PM   #3866
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Why not? An otherwise boring old building becomes a cool modern one. Sounds good. I find it strange just how hungry you guys are for mediocrity.
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Old September 10th, 2013, 09:15 PM   #3867
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It's not modern just because you throw a wedge in it. It provocates but I don't need to be provocated by buildings. There are women in this world who already do this all the time.

Last edited by Saxonia; September 10th, 2013 at 09:25 PM.
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Old September 10th, 2013, 09:24 PM   #3868
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So you guys would prefer something boring?
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Old September 10th, 2013, 09:35 PM   #3869
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Greco View Post
Why not? An otherwise boring old building becomes a cool modern one. Sounds good. I find it strange just how hungry you guys are for mediocrity.
This "forgettable old building" is one of the very few to have survived the bombing. Libeskind's design is insulting and I fail to see anything remotely original about it.

The Sainsbury Wing of the National Gallery in London is a good example of how to build an extension onto a building while respecting its historical integrity. It fits so well that its almost unnoticeable until closer inspection. You can then see how clever the design is.

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http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7111/7...92440a87_b.jpg by Aries L. http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/
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Old September 10th, 2013, 09:41 PM   #3870
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This "forgettable old building" is one of the very few to have survived the bombing. Libeskind's design is insulting and I fail to see anything remotely original about it.

The Sainsbury Wing of the National Gallery in London is a good example of how to build an extension onto a building while respecting its historical integrity. It fits so well that its almost unnoticeable until closer inspection. You can then see how clever the design is.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7111/7...92440a87_b.jpg by Aries L. http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/
As I say you guys want mediocrity.
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Old September 10th, 2013, 09:54 PM   #3871
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The Dancing house is the kind of modern buildings that could be built in the hystorical city centres. It is modern, actually even provocative design (that is actually beautiful for me) yet it follows the classic perimetrical planning and is has a human scale.

Although it is really bad when the modern building is an "intruder" in the hystorical environment without any respect to the planning and the scale. For example, the building at the end of street: https://maps.google.lt/maps?q=Union+...59.65,,0,-7.71
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Old September 10th, 2013, 10:26 PM   #3872
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Greco View Post
Deconstructivists are probably the only architects that can still do exciting architecture, instead of boring or apologist. I guess that's why their buildings provoke such debate.
Libeskind's work is for shock value only. If you had to look at the Dresden Museum everyday, perhaps you had to drive by it everyday to get to work and home, the shock would wear off, and all that would be left is a disfigured building. Beautiful buildings don't spark debates. The problem is that deconstructivists architects cannot produce beautiful buildings. The standards of beauty are too much for them so they decided to purposely design ugly buildings. Deconstruction is an architecture of anarchy. It's anything goes architecture. It takes no talent, and anyone skilled enough to operate a computer can produce it.
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Old September 10th, 2013, 10:39 PM   #3873
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Originally Posted by MRouchell View Post
Libeskind's work is for shock value only. If you had to look at the Dresden Museum everyday, perhaps you had to drive by it everyday to get to work and home, the shock would wear off, and all that would be left is a disfigured building. Beautiful buildings don't spark debates. The problem is that deconstructivists architects cannot produce beautiful buildings. The standards of beauty are too much for them so they decided to purposely design ugly buildings. Deconstruction is an architecture of anarchy. It's anything goes architecture. It takes no talent, and anyone skilled enough to operate a computer can produce it.
Somehow I always think of the below quote when looking at provoking architecture.

Quote:
We want to be loved; failing that, admired; failing that, feared; failing that, hated and despised. At all costs we want to stir up some sort of feeling in others. Our soul abhors a vacuum. At all costs it longs for contact.
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Old September 10th, 2013, 11:28 PM   #3874
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Lots of wise words here...
I pretty much agree with everything you have said here, fan. Well written.
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Old September 10th, 2013, 11:32 PM   #3875
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiaren View Post
Libeskind's extension of the Military Museum is imho a really great and impressive piece of architecture! Or should I say piece of art?

image hosted on flickr

MHM Dresden / Keil by 96dpi, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

MHM Dresden by 96dpi, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

MHM Dresden by 96dpi, on Flickr
I don't know this building very well, but that truly makes my heart bleed. Architectural rape. Why is this even allowed?
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Old September 11th, 2013, 12:10 AM   #3876
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The problem is that deconstructivists architects cannot produce beautiful buildings.
Sure they can and they do. Anyway what kind of architecture you want?
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Old September 11th, 2013, 12:26 AM   #3877
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So whats exciting and brave about that Libeskind thing Dresden?
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Old September 11th, 2013, 12:32 AM   #3878
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Enough with the off-topic guys.
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Old September 11th, 2013, 10:15 AM   #3879
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Basically, even though you managed to phrase it better than me.

And also I don't think that the historic districts are that bad when it comes to density. Vasastan which is a Neustadt-district of Stockholm with mostly post-industrial, pre-ww2 structures has a population density of about 20 000 ppl/km^2 while still being a cozy place to live with small cafés, shops and calm back streets.
I bet the 20 000 people per km2 came by accident. If you analyze space really like the grid developing ancestors of ours did you can easily fit 150 000 people in sq km in the nordic countries and 300 000 in Chinas Goangzhou and similarly located cities like Abu Dhabi. The shadowing is heavier due to low positioning of the sun in the nordic countries during the winter.
With 150 000 people ( 60000 apartments ) you can still have 6000 shops and cafes and 100000 parking spaces, dog parks and green boulevard etc. This is not just a dream I actually drew it and counted all numbers.
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Old September 11th, 2013, 04:12 PM   #3880
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiaren View Post
Libeskind's extension of the Military Museum is imho a really great and impressive piece of architecture! Or should I say piece of art?


It can be (if necessary) removed in the future, so it doesn't actually harm the historic building and it doesn't hurt any historic cityscape, as the Military Museum stands on its own in a park area.
Why do you consider it a great and impressive piece of architecture? What qualifies it as impressive?

It does, classical buildings are designed to create a feel of symmetry and balance. Everything flows together like water. This directly assaults the flow and intentions of the architecture.

Perhaps the reason some like it is not the piece itself, but the name attached to it?
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