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Old September 12th, 2013, 06:12 AM   #3901
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Originally Posted by El_Greco View Post
No modern examples then? You just don't like modern architecture full stop. You could just say so, no need for all this philosophical talk about 'human desire'.
Modern examples?

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Chicago is full of construction projects of traditional townhouses, apartment buildings, etc. such as this.





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Old September 12th, 2013, 07:54 AM   #3902
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Beautiful examples.
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Old September 12th, 2013, 10:09 AM   #3903
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Yes, Nicolai was professor at the Kunstakademie in Dresden and Rumpel was one of his students.
Just like Friedrich Gilly was teacher to Karl Friedrich Schinkel.
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Old September 12th, 2013, 10:23 AM   #3904
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Originally Posted by MRouchell View Post
The sharp object cutting through the building is suppose to represent the violence of war, so what does this addition to the Royal Ontario Art Center symbolize?

from www.gothereguide.com.
Good one !

I remember way back in the 80ies I was still a student and a teachter ( professor ) asked us what is deconstruction ? It was new then and based on Derridas ideals etc. and I had no idea but I answered it must be something that wants to break construction as an opposite to constructivist. Professor was like thunderstruck and must have taken me as an idiot !

Later I came to think how important the narrative approch to architecture is to many pop architects and curiously word "narrata" ( in finnish ) means to pull someones leg or fool someone by telling an incredible story. The story telling is very important aspect in all Libeskind houses as well as in Steven Holl buildings.

I like good stories I just hope cities have enough cash to pay for these stories.
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Old September 12th, 2013, 01:42 PM   #3905
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Originally Posted by socrates#1fan View Post
Chicago is full of construction projects of traditional townhouses, apartment buildings, etc. such as this.
So basically you don't like anything that isn't old or does not pretend to be old.

We should be building churches and townhouses, log cabins and Japanese feudal mansions? We are going to house millions in them? And what about offices? A neo-Gothic skyscraper? Why aren't we building such stuff then? Why overwhelming majority of new builds is unashamedly modern glass and steel construction? Not because of some architects conspiracy, but because the World has moved on. Architects don't go round building whatever they want, they get hired and given a brief of what their design should look like. Doric columns are and will remain a minority sport.

That's not beautiful, that's tacky. It's not even architecture. Your other post seems very fitting -

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When man lacks the self-esteem to walk upon his own two feet without need to belittle others he must grasp upon ideas that "separate" him from the common man.

Desperately trying to appear deeper, more intellectual, and more worthy of existence the man will try his best to act as if he has a higher level of understanding, aesthetics, etc. though none will be created himself. He will simply grasp at what is perceived to be intellectual.

When the common human finds appeal in beauty, he must pretend the grotesque and hideous has appeal so that he may distinguish himself from the masses he loathes. They will create a complex web of reasons as to why they find the grotesque beautiful, though in reality it is nothing but a show. A cheap veneer constantly changing as "intellectual" and "modern" tastes change.

You cannot convince this man otherwise, because to convince them that their "beauty" is grotesque would be an attack on their character, an attack on ideas that they did not question, but simply took as dogma. To try to change this man would be like trying to convince the "prophet" that there is no god speaking to them. To change this idea would require a complete reconstruction not only of self perception but also the world around them.
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Old September 12th, 2013, 04:00 PM   #3906
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Apart from being far far away from the topic, this argument/discussion annoys me because both modern and traditional architecture have their value and place in this world. For example there are beautiful buildings from the 50ties that noone would like to miss. The sad thing about modern architecture is, that despite desperately trying to build something great, many architects end up with the same mediocre shit all over again. Bauhaus is great, but I want something else.
Additionally, there are Places(Dresdens Neumarkt, for example, which is not at all the whole old town) where buildings should be built to their former glory, as it is about ensembles and not about solitaries. Most modern buildings look splendid when they're alone, but rather boring amongst others.
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Old September 12th, 2013, 04:35 PM   #3907
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the chapel in Dresden Castle has been finally recontstructed:
http://www.sz-online.de/nachrichten/...--2660730.html
good news!
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Old September 12th, 2013, 04:53 PM   #3908
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Originally Posted by bavarian urbanist View Post
Apart from being far far away from the topic, this argument/discussion annoys me because both modern and traditional architecture have their value and place in this world. For example there are beautiful buildings from the 50ties that noone would like to miss. The sad thing about modern architecture is, that despite desperately trying to build something great, many architects end up with the same mediocre shit all over again. Bauhaus is great, but I want something else.
Additionally, there are Places(Dresdens Neumarkt, for example, which is not at all the whole old town) where buildings should be built to their former glory, as it is about ensembles and not about solitaries. Most modern buildings look splendid when they're alone, but rather boring amongst others.
Arch. Barbara Brukalska said once that in every historical period only 3% of buildings are real pearls, as she called them: currants in the cake. 97% is merely a cake, pastry. But it is this pastry that creates city fabric and is obviously mediocre. One can't expect great architecture all over the city. For me, if most buildings don't cause my eyes to burst it is acceptable.

That is in general. Of course historical ensembles such as in Dresden should be treated differently, and it's very good decision to reconstructed as much as possible.
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Old September 12th, 2013, 05:36 PM   #3909
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Originally Posted by socrates#1fan View Post
Modern examples?







Chicago is full of construction projects of traditional townhouses, apartment buildings, etc. such as this.






I have to say I am very surprised that somewhere still old styles are used like this. I really had no idea.

What is that red building above ?
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Old September 12th, 2013, 05:40 PM   #3910
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Originally Posted by aitante68 View Post
the chapel in Dresden Castle has been finally recontstructed:
http://www.sz-online.de/nachrichten/...--2660730.html
good news!
Fantastic...: Schlingrippengewölbe
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Old September 12th, 2013, 06:19 PM   #3911
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The extension of the Military museum will be a world-famous landmark, just like Frauenkirche. It looks really exciting.
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Old September 12th, 2013, 06:20 PM   #3912
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Originally Posted by fountainkopf View Post
I bet the 20 000 people per km2 came by accident. If you analyze space really like the grid developing ancestors of ours did you can easily fit 150 000 people in sq km in the nordic countries and 300 000 in Chinas Goangzhou and similarly located cities like Abu Dhabi. The shadowing is heavier due to low positioning of the sun in the nordic countries during the winter.
With 150 000 people ( 60000 apartments ) you can still have 6000 shops and cafes and 100000 parking spaces, dog parks and green boulevard etc. This is not just a dream I actually drew it and counted all numbers.
Of course it's possible to build something more dense. All I'm saying is that there's no need to destroy historic districts since they are pretty dense (even though by the sound of some they are practically suburban in density), have beautiful buildings and apartments with wooden floors and high ceilings which are high in demand.

___

A building is beautiful if it can be deemed beautiful on its own. Take the arsenal and place it on an empty field and most people would say it's a beautiful building. Do the same with the modern addition and it's just a big metal rectangle someone forgot there, nothing more. In fact the addition is just a parasite that needs to live off a host and be juxtapositioned next to a beautiful building to even be relevant.
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Old September 12th, 2013, 07:05 PM   #3913
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Originally Posted by El_Greco View Post
So basically you don't like anything that isn't old or does not pretend to be old.

We should be building churches and townhouses, log cabins and Japanese feudal mansions? We are going to house millions in them? And what about offices? A neo-Gothic skyscraper? Why aren't we building such stuff then? Why overwhelming majority of new builds is unashamedly modern glass and steel construction? Not because of some architects conspiracy, but because the World has moved on. Architects don't go round building whatever they want, they get hired and given a brief of what their design should look like. Doric columns are and will remain a minority sport.

That's not beautiful, that's tacky. It's not even architecture. Your other post seems very fitting -
You are completely missing the point.

Actually my friend, the vast majority of new builds are traditional and semi-traditional. Of course, then you would have to include the houses of common people, their businesses, and even infrastructure. At least, this is the case in the United States. There is more being built than skyscrapers and museums.

Not even architecture? The world has moved on? What is your reasoning for such statements? The arrogance to assume that the "chosen" style has killed off the style that man has followed since the dawn of civilization is a little rash, wouldn't you agree? Especially considering that modernism hasn't even been around for a century and already there are movements against it. You claim it is tacky because modernism insists it is tacky. Like a religion claiming the voice of reason is the voice of Satan.

I recommend taking a look at this wonderful thread.
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1022349
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Old September 12th, 2013, 07:07 PM   #3914
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Originally Posted by fountainkopf View Post
I have to say I am very surprised that somewhere still old styles are used like this. I really had no idea.

What is that red building above ?
Absolutely. You may enjoy looking at this thread.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1022349

That is the Chicago Library, which was built in 1991, however, most new traditional buildings in Chicago are from the past eight years.
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Old September 12th, 2013, 07:54 PM   #3915
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Quote:
Originally Posted by "socrates#1fan;
Actually my friend, the vast majority of new builds are traditional and semi-traditional.
No, the vast majority of new builds are modern. In the last 10 years London built only 2 buildings in classical style the rest are glass and steel. Same goes for the rest of Europe and the World - Middle East, China etc all build modern. So yes the world has moved on - I dont think you're wearing 18th or 19th century clothing - it would be ridiculous and quite clearly out of place - the World has moved on and yes what you posted is tacky.

Unlike you I can actually appreciate both, old and new, and while Classical styles do have their place, this is 21st century World and we should be building accordingly - unashamedly modern (and thankfully we do) instead of producing apologist stuff.
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Old September 12th, 2013, 08:18 PM   #3916
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Originally Posted by socrates#1fan View Post
Absolutely. You may enjoy looking at this thread.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1022349

That is the Chicago Library, which was built in 1991, however, most new traditional buildings in Chicago are from the past eight years.
Cool....I hate to admit it, but we have no..none new building like this..unless some one family houses here and there.

It is possibly due to heavy insulation demand on the walls.
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Old September 12th, 2013, 08:19 PM   #3917
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No, the vast majority of new builds are modern. In the last 10 years London built only 2 buildings in classical style the rest are glass and steel. Same goes for the rest of Europe and the World - Middle East, China etc all build modern. So yes the world has moved on - I dont think you're wearing 18th or 19th century clothing - it would be ridiculous and quite clearly out of place - the World has moved on and yes what you posted is tacky.

Unlike you I can actually appreciate both, old and new, and while Classical styles do have their place, this is 21st century World and we should be building accordingly - unashamedly modern (and thankfully we do) instead of producing apologist stuff.
What would you call the majority of houses being built in London? Including the suburbs. Here in the US the vast majority of new buildings are traditional or semi-traditional.

You are completely missing my point and making correlations that are not based on fact. My disdain for modernist architecture is not out of nostalgia for a previous era, it is based on the ability to genuinely look at these buildings for what they are and not to claim they are "impressive" for the sake of appearing deep or intellectually superior.
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Old September 12th, 2013, 08:27 PM   #3918
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Of course it's possible to build something more dense. All I'm saying is that there's no need to destroy historic districts since they are pretty dense (even though by the sound of some they are practically suburban in density), have beautiful buildings and apartments with wooden floors and high ceilings which are high in demand.

___

A building is beautiful if it can be deemed beautiful on its own. Take the arsenal and place it on an empty field and most people would say it's a beautiful building. Do the same with the modern addition and it's just a big metal rectangle someone forgot there, nothing more. In fact the addition is just a parasite that needs to live off a host and be juxtapositioned next to a beautiful building to even be relevant.
I agree and got your point...you could build a 920 000 people village next to Dresden or few of them like shown below few miles away and down town Dresden would be the place where they all go to hang out and have good time.



That would have 60 000 shops/restaurant/ateljees/offices and 520 000 apartments...3600 tenniscourts and 3 x 9 hole colf courses....250 000 - 900 000 car spaces...40 parks with petanque fields and dog parks etc.

Just as an example of what high density could be. All in 3 x 3 km area. Max height in all 4 vertical buildings in each block is 75 meters. Lower than any church tower in Dresden.
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Old September 12th, 2013, 08:51 PM   #3919
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Originally Posted by El_Greco View Post
No modern examples then? You just don't like modern architecture full stop. You could just say so, no need for all this philosophical talk about 'human desire'.
I agree with every word socrates#1fan said, and I can give you a fitting example that certainly is modern, yet isn't purely made to bolster the already bloated ego of its architect:


Source: http://www.taipei-101.info


Source: http://www.listoffive.com/top-5-tall...-of-the-world/


Source: http://www.homesthetics.net/taipei-1...-lee-partners/

There it is, all symmetrical and beautifully placed in harmony with its surroundings. It doesn't have to look like a turd (or lump of metal) with deeper meaning to be new, fresh and beautiful.

Anyways... back to topic.
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Old September 12th, 2013, 09:11 PM   #3920
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What would you call the majority of houses being built in London? Including the suburbs. Here in the US the vast majority of new buildings are traditional or semi-traditional.

You are completely missing my point and making correlations that are not based on fact. My disdain for modernist architecture is not out of nostalgia for a previous era, it is based on the ability to genuinely look at these buildings for what they are and not to claim they are "impressive" for the sake of appearing deep or intellectually superior.
Do you wear 18-19th century clothes? Should we bring back steam trains and sailing ships? No? Why not? Well because that era is over, the world has moved on. Why should architecture be any different?

You talk and talk about modernists and how they want to impose their vision upon the world. Ironically you're no better than those you hate - you too want to impose your vision on the World. Why build something that looks like it belongs in the 18th century? Because it looks pretty? Says who? You? Are you some kind of arbiter of taste? No thanks, I like my Zahas and Gehrys, Koolhaass and Libeskinds, Fosters and Vinolys, Rogerss and Pianos. I like them not because modernists tell me to, but because its good architecture. Yet I can also appreciate the old. It has its place, but the world has moved on. We don't build classical anymore. In the last 10 years London built maybe two classical buildings, the rest are glass and steel, same goes for the rest of Europe and the world.

Quote:
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There it is, all symmetrical and beautifully placed in harmony with its surroundings. It doesn't have to look like a turd (or lump of metal) with deeper meaning to be new, fresh and beautiful.
In harmony with its surroundings towering over the city?
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