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Old September 29th, 2013, 11:16 PM   #4001
Tiaren
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Taschenbergpalais, Kurländer Palais and Brühl's garden (where the Belvedere will someday be reconstructed as well) are missing as well on the map.

Edit:

Here's the area of everything that is already reconstructed or that will definitely be reconstructed in the future:
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Old September 29th, 2013, 11:46 PM   #4002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by photolitherland View Post
I agree, like right now they need to tear that bullshit down.
If this is ever about to happen, I am going to war and I mean this literally.
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Old September 29th, 2013, 11:59 PM   #4003
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If this is ever about to happen, I am going to war and I mean this literally.
Funny that you fled to the international forum after your strange views were not liked in the german subforum
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Old September 30th, 2013, 12:43 AM   #4004
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Originally Posted by erbse View Post
This is how the original looked like at the Salzgasse side.

Some paint will be still added on the reconstruction.




Still, the reconstruction will look a lot better, condition-wise, obviously.
Thank You very much. I didn't know it was that simple. However, the old building apparently had several blind windows
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Old September 30th, 2013, 12:59 AM   #4005
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The blind windows were probably added (or blinded ) later.
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Old September 30th, 2013, 01:06 AM   #4006
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I would love to see an aerial shot of the whole pre-war Dresden oldtown. Sadly bildindex is down right now.
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Old September 30th, 2013, 01:59 AM   #4007
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You can use Google Earth for that. just select "historical view". There you get ortho-shots from the 30ties and 40ties that the Nazis took of several important german cities afaik.
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Old September 30th, 2013, 03:05 AM   #4008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skymino View Post
Thank You very much. I didn't know it was that simple. However, the old building apparently had several blind windows
By the way, the backside to Salzgasse has been finished already, and it did get some subtle structuring and a beautiful paintjob!

Some pics for you on this site:
http://www.stadtbild-deutschland.org...2665&pageNo=41
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Old September 30th, 2013, 05:54 AM   #4009
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If this is ever about to happen, I am going to war and I mean this literally.
That building is a POS, you will probably be the only one who will miss it.

Looking at Google maps, it looks like a good portion of the northern side of the city survived the war and commie blocks, as well as other random patches of the city. But looking at streetview, it seems a lot of those pre war buildings just across the river are in bad shape. Are they actively restoring the remaining pre war architecture in other parts of the city that survived the bombing?

image hosted on flickr

1943

image hosted on flickr

2011, obviously more has been built since then but its a good comparison.

image hosted on flickr


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The amount that was lost is just staggering, and the amount of history lost all throughout the world during WW2 is just dreadful.

Sad thing though is that you guys in Europe destroyed your cities through war, we destroyed our cities here in America due to racism and suburban sprawl willingly and are still tearing down a lot of our history to this day, while in Europe you guys are rebuilding it.
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Old September 30th, 2013, 12:26 PM   #4010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by photolitherland View Post
Sad thing though is that you guys in Europe destroyed your cities through war...
We Americans contributed just as much if not more. There were numerous cities that were needlessly destroyed by the RAF and USAF in the final months of the war. They achieved absolutely nothing. In post-war Eastern Europe there were quite a few towns that were left to rot by the communists.

Quote:
...we destroyed our cities here in America due to racism and suburban sprawl...
How has racism been destroying the architecture of American cities?
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Old September 30th, 2013, 02:10 PM   #4011
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Of course we helped destroy German cities, I'm just saying the cities in Europe were destroyed by war. And racism helped bomb out American cities due to white flight after the war.
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Old September 30th, 2013, 03:19 PM   #4012
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Originally Posted by photolitherland View Post
And racism helped bomb out American cities due to white flight after the war.
How did "white flight" destroy those cities? There is far more to this than racism being the motivation for flight. Is it easier to just blame everything wrong with this country on white people?
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Old September 30th, 2013, 03:49 PM   #4013
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These aerial shots are so depressing. Next time I'll better ask for tequila instead. thank you.
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Old September 30th, 2013, 05:00 PM   #4014
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How did "white flight" destroy those cities? There is far more to this than racism being the motivation for flight. Is it easier to just blame everything wrong with this country on white people?
Jesus man, read up on white flight and suburbia in the United States. Our inner cities lost population during the 1950s-90s due to crap suburbia. If you think I'm blaming everything on white people, I'm not, that's the historic term for what happened, white flight. Look it up. And wasn't just whites. It was the middle class. So since our cities became depopulated loads was torn down. Areas that turned into majority minority neighborhoods were usually slated for destruction during the middle of the 1900s to be turned into highways, public housing, or parking lots. Lots of our inner city neighborhoods still to this day look like they were hit with bombs due to massive depopulation.
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Old September 30th, 2013, 05:38 PM   #4015
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This debate has gone off-topic. Maybe another thread should be started.

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If you think I'm blaming everything on white people, I'm not, that's the historic term for what happened, white flight. Look it up.
You mentioned racism and white flight as being among the main reasons. I looked it up and the best definition I found was:

"White flight - A perfectly legitimate attempt by innocent people, often oppressed white middle class individuals and families, to exercise their civil rights to choose which neighbors they want to live with and what lifestyle they wish to pass on to their children, by peacefully leaving neighborhoods that no longer meet their very reasonable standards of safety and decency. This phenomenon is often misrepresented as racist by those who resent the freedom to move that these hard-working people have earned, without dependence on government support."

Almost all accusations of racism are directed toward whites. If you claim that you didn't mean all whites then you certainly implied most of them were guilty.

Quote:
And wasn't just whites. It was the middle class.
The absolute majority of the middle class in America have been whites.

Quote:
So since our cities became depopulated loads was torn down.
They were never depopulated. They were just taken over by individuals who failed to maintain these historic neighborhoods.

Quote:
Areas that turned into majority minority neighborhoods were usually slated for destruction during the middle of the 1900s to be turned into highways, public housing, or parking lots.
Is this what you meant by "racism"? So far you haven't provided an adequate explanation that proves it was the prime reason for why whites left behind their old neighborhoods.

Quote:
Lots of our inner city neighborhoods still to this day look like they were hit with bombs due to massive depopulation.
Again, depopulation is not the reason. Whites would never never have left their old neighborhoods if it weren't for the dramatic rise of crime.
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Old September 30th, 2013, 06:07 PM   #4016
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First of all, this Thread is about the reconstruction of Dresden's Neumarkt, and second: I would not say that people of european descent are to blame for the downturn of american cities, but more or less, It seems to be the fault of automobile companies, The Charta of Athens and a kind of paranoia on the side of the white middle class. There was crime, often done by the afroamerican population who had to live under poor circumstances and where not granted all civil rights, which led to the middle class fleeing to the countryside. Without middle class (if the percentage of academics falls below 20% in a certain area, the social network will as I read somewhere), the crime rates rises again. Therefore, the core city becomes unattractive for entrepreneurs and dwellers, loses tax money to the suburban communities and can't provide it's (poor) citizens with the services they deserve.
Edit: with a more egalitarian, not-so-egoistic society and a less corrupt police service, the safety standards would be higher. You all seem to think you're still out in the wide open plains and can shoot whoever you think looks suspicious.
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Old September 30th, 2013, 06:18 PM   #4017
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William, chill man, and if you want to read all about racism and how cars killed our cities during the 20th century than please read because there are tons and tons of books on the subject , and since you live in America all of this information should be of no surprise to you. I didn't even say anything that's too much of a shocker and anyways, this thread is about Dresden.
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Old September 30th, 2013, 06:35 PM   #4018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by photolitherland View Post
William, chill man, and if you want to read all about racism and how cars killed our cities during the 20th century than please read because there are tons and tons of books on the subject , and since you live in America all of this information should be of no surprise to you. I didn't even say anything that's too much of a shocker and anyways, this thread is about Dresden.
Would you mind listing these books? Specifically the ones supporting your claim that racism is one of the main reasons for why inner cities were laid to waste. I have already read about how cars and buses were partly responsible, but so far I have not found a single book that attempted to squeeze in racism.

I have already requested that another thread should be opened. I think this could turn into a very productive debate.
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Old September 30th, 2013, 09:46 PM   #4019
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Are they actively restoring the remaining pre war architecture in other parts of the city that survived the bombing?
Yes, Dresden is growing. The flats are in great demand.
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Old September 30th, 2013, 11:12 PM   #4020
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I love what is happening in Dresden and to rebuild most of the city will never happen. However, It would be wonderful if the city planners can follow the old street patterns and build to that plan. A mix of old and new would be great. Can you imagine what it would be like with the old street pattern?
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