daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > World Forums > Architecture > European Classic Architecture and Landscapes

European Classic Architecture and Landscapes All related to historical buildings and landscapes of the old world.



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old October 1st, 2013, 01:34 AM   #4021
JohnnyMass
Whatever
 
JohnnyMass's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Porto
Posts: 46,077
Likes (Received): 1493

Since this thread is prone to derailments, it's time to post some new photos...



















More at Bausituation Dresden
__________________
Edit my Signature
JohnnyMass no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old October 1st, 2013, 03:12 AM   #4022
photolitherland
Registered User
 
photolitherland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 318
Likes (Received): 956

Quote:
Originally Posted by william of waco View Post
Would you mind listing these books? Specifically the ones supporting your claim that racism is one of the main reasons for why inner cities were laid to waste.
White Flight: Atlanta and the Making of Modern Conservatism

The Origins of the Urban Crisis : Race and Inequality in Post-war Detroit

Detroit : An American Autopsy

White Flight/Black Flight
The Dynamics of Racial Change in an American Neighborhood

Bourgeois Utopias: The Rise And Fall Of Suburbia

Levittown: Two Families, One Tycoon, and the Fight for Civil Rights in America's Legendary Suburb

Popular Culture in the Age of White Flight : Fear and Fantasy in Suburban Los Angeles

A history of the city of Cairo, Illinois

Silent Majority : Suburban Politics in the Sunbelt South

Ghosts of Jim Crow

White Identity : Racial Consciousness in the 21st Century

The Suburban Racial Dilemma: Housing and Neighborhoods: 1st Edition

Colored Property: State Policy and White Racial Politics in Suburban America

Sundown Towns : A Hidden Dimension of American Racism

Race Relations in the United States, 1960-1980: 1st Edition

I could probably find a hundred or more books on the subject, but really man, unless you are completely blind to history and the history of american suburbia than you would have to turn a blind eye on how race led this country to the shit suburban "dream".

Anyways, enough on that issue and back to Dresden.

Last edited by photolitherland; October 1st, 2013 at 03:32 AM.
photolitherland no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 1st, 2013, 04:07 AM   #4023
socrates#1fan
Registered User
 
socrates#1fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 2,605
Likes (Received): 1318

Quote:
Originally Posted by photolitherland View Post
Jesus man, read up on white flight and suburbia in the United States. Our inner cities lost population during the 1950s-90s due to crap suburbia. If you think I'm blaming everything on white people, I'm not, that's the historic term for what happened, white flight. Look it up. And wasn't just whites. It was the middle class. So since our cities became depopulated loads was torn down. Areas that turned into majority minority neighborhoods were usually slated for destruction during the middle of the 1900s to be turned into highways, public housing, or parking lots. Lots of our inner city neighborhoods still to this day look like they were hit with bombs due to massive depopulation.
You realize there was a strong push and pull factor for European-Americans to move to the suburbs, right?

The blaming it on whites is getting old.

What pushed Europeans to the suburbs was a desire to escape the crowded cities of the US, and to recreate the "ideal" "country" life in the suburbs. Later, as poverty increased, many moved to the suburbs for better schools, lower crime rates, and more space.
__________________
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -Benjamin Franklin

"I don’t know what it is about Hoosiers, but wherever you go there is always a Hoosier doing something very important there."-Kurt Vonnegut

william of waco liked this post
socrates#1fan no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 1st, 2013, 05:17 AM   #4024
Dmerdude
Registered User
 
Dmerdude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Toronto / Turkey
Posts: 2,524
Likes (Received): 1774

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kampflamm View Post
Hadn't been in this thread in such a long time. That kulturpalace still annoys me.
Dmerdude no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 1st, 2013, 08:41 AM   #4025
fountainkopf
Registered User
 
fountainkopf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Endor
Posts: 586
Likes (Received): 138

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dmerdude View Post
Hadn't been in this thread in such a long time. That kulturpalace still annoys me.


Are they still finding incendiaries and other bombs like here in Finland ( while digging foundations for new buldings ) from the war times ?
__________________

White Light liked this post
fountainkopf no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 1st, 2013, 01:29 PM   #4026
erbse
LIBERTINED
 
erbse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: McLenBurg
Posts: 43,231
Likes (Received): 57899

Of course they do! You'll regularily have evacuations of whole city quarters when they're building new stuff in many German cities. But I think this hasn't been the case for Dresden for a while.
__________________
GET FREE!
D W F


🔥 Tradition doesn't mean to look after the ash, but to keep the flame alive! 🔥
erbse no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 1st, 2013, 06:16 PM   #4027
william of waco
Registered User
 
william of waco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Hill Country
Posts: 232
Likes (Received): 258

Quote:
Originally Posted by photolitherland View Post
I could probably find a hundred or more books on the subject, but really man, unless you are completely blind to history and the history of american suburbia than you would have to turn a blind eye on how race led this country to the shit suburban "dream".
This will be my last response to this off-topic debate. photolitherland, your original claim was that depopulation, or whites abandoning their old neighborhoods, is what caused the inner cities to fall into ruin. I reviewed most of the books above and not a single one of them addressed the real reason for why they left. They had invested quite a bit of money and effort to build and maintain these neighborhoods. They did not move away because "white flight" was fashionably racist. The exact reason for their leaving was the increasing amount of crime. They did not want their children to be raised in such an environment, be victims of home invasions or mugged in their own streets. I'm sure racism was the reason for a few of them but most of the rest relocated to avoid the ever increasing rate of crime and live in safety somewhere else. Every time a white family moved out their house was immediately occupied. They were not left to rot as you claimed. The individuals who moved in after the whites had fled were guilty of this. When all the whites were gone there was no longer an interest to keep these old neighborhoods preserved. "White flight" is nothing more than another tired excuse used by people to blame someone else except themselves.
__________________

socrates#1fan, Photodash liked this post
william of waco no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 1st, 2013, 07:31 PM   #4028
Saxonia
Registered User
 
Saxonia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Res publica Banana
Posts: 1,057
Likes (Received): 7404

It's a shame that they destroyed all archaelogic relevant things with the concrete basin of the Kulturpalast without correct analysing.
__________________

photolitherland liked this post
Saxonia no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 1st, 2013, 10:10 PM   #4029
bolg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Stockholm
Posts: 916
Likes (Received): 759

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dmerdude View Post
Hadn't been in this thread in such a long time. That kulturpalace still annoys me.
I'm more annoyed by the flat roofs of the two reconstructed quartiers to the right of the church on the last aerial. Imo they ruin the whole historical skyline and it could've so easily have been avoided.
bolg no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 1st, 2013, 11:02 PM   #4030
JohnnyMass
Whatever
 
JohnnyMass's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Porto
Posts: 46,077
Likes (Received): 1493

That's because they're not meant to be seen from above. But I guess they forgot about the Frauenkirche observatory... or just did not give a damn about it.
__________________
Edit my Signature
JohnnyMass no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 2nd, 2013, 03:41 AM   #4031
photolitherland
Registered User
 
photolitherland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 318
Likes (Received): 956

Quote:
Originally Posted by bolg View Post
I'm more annoyed by the flat roofs of the two reconstructed quartiers to the right of the church on the last aerial. Imo they ruin the whole historical skyline and it could've so easily have been avoided.
From street level you cant notice that the roofs are flat like that.
photolitherland no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 2nd, 2013, 10:48 AM   #4032
WhiteMagick
Moderator - Επιτηρητής
 
WhiteMagick's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 18,089

Ludwig Richter Bronzedenkmal



__________________
Ο κάθε λαός έχει το κράτος και την κυβέρνηση που του αξίζει. Καθρέφτης λαού, ἄστη αυτού.

如果希腊国民继续信阴谋论,外资救世主的,不为自己的行为负责, 他们会灭亡。

人は何かの犠牲なしに何も得ることはできない。何かを得るためには同等の代価が必要になる。それが、生活における等価交換の原則だ。その頃僕らは、それが世界の真実だと信じていた。時間は、最も貴重な資源である。だから、誰の時間もあなたは無駄にしてはいけないし、誰もが他の人の時間を無駄にしないでください。

Max BGF liked this post
WhiteMagick no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 2nd, 2013, 03:05 PM   #4033
Tiaren
Registered User
 
Tiaren's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,702
Likes (Received): 5550

Thank you for that, WhiteMagick!
The sculpture of Ludwig Richter did unfortunately not turn out very well. It's too stiff, crude and the arrangement of the clothing folds is very insecurely done. I wished, they did a better reconstruction, which is still today possible, as various recently reconstructed sculptures in Berlin show.

More views of the Richter-monument can be found here:
http://www.stadtbild-deutschland.org...=989&pageNo=17

Last edited by Tiaren; October 2nd, 2013 at 05:14 PM.
Tiaren no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 2nd, 2013, 03:20 PM   #4034
Mruczek
Warrior of Excel
 
Mruczek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Outside Blue Banana
Posts: 10,433
Likes (Received): 13458

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiaren View Post
These have to go ASAP:

IMHO these 1950's socialist-realist blocks with angled roofs (1st, 3rd and 4th from the left, marked in red) are excellent and there is no point in destroying them.

Especially since Wilsdruffer Strasse today is 3 times as wide as before the war. So the question emerges, what could be reconstructed on the spot?
__________________
We shape our buildings; thereafter they shape us. Winston Churchill
Z archiwum Mruczka:
Buk Miłosław Szamotuły
Barcelona Budapeszt Grodno Kowno Madryt Moskwa Ukraina

White Light liked this post
Mruczek no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 3rd, 2013, 04:48 AM   #4035
Dmerdude
Registered User
 
Dmerdude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Toronto / Turkey
Posts: 2,524
Likes (Received): 1774

Quote:
Originally Posted by photolitherland View Post
I agree, like right now they need to tear that bullshit down. As for my understanding, the Kulterplast, or whatever that government ugly POS building is, the architect is still alive and they dont want to offend him by tearing it down. But as soon as he kicks the bucket I hope they rip that POS apart and restore more of the old cities fabric. I really hope in the future that more new reconstructions are built so a large part of the old city is there again. For all the work that has been done on this reconstruction so far, it really is a tiny little area compared to how much was lost. Does anyone know if any plans are floating around in the future to restore more of the bombed out city?

image hosted on flickr


From what I can tell everything within the area I put in red is going to be or has been restored. I would absolutely love to see the area I outlined in orange be restored someday, does anyone think that will ever be a possibility in the future for at least some of it to be restored? Id especially love to see the Altstadt Market restored. I know restoring such a huge area would cost incredible amounts of money but maybe someday into the far future this can be done.
Are those "thin" buildings all commieblocks?
Dmerdude no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 3rd, 2013, 07:18 AM   #4036
437.001
Sister Greed U
 
437.001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: on the road (Spain)
Posts: 31,729
Likes (Received): 14872

Unless some may have been replaced by newer stuff since 1990, most of them are commieblocks indeed.
__________________
&&& abcde PMR en Cat Imputados en Tarragona
Everybody got a job to lose (A.E, Vision Thing, WEA, 1990)
437.001 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 3rd, 2013, 12:58 PM   #4037
Saxonia
Registered User
 
Saxonia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Res publica Banana
Posts: 1,057
Likes (Received): 7404

Many of them (except Prager Straße) are no typical commieblocks or "Plattenbauten" as we call it. Houses with a normal roof are so called Altneubauten (old-new-buildings). They were built after the war up to the mid and late fifties.

for example
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blochm...e_1%E2%80%9319
or https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/N%C3%B.../10%E2%80%9328
Saxonia no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 3rd, 2013, 01:37 PM   #4038
WhiteMagick
Moderator - Επιτηρητής
 
WhiteMagick's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 18,089

Those buildings could turn out fine as long as there is a rework of the facade.

But the Kulturpalast seriously needs to go. It's atrocious.
__________________
Ο κάθε λαός έχει το κράτος και την κυβέρνηση που του αξίζει. Καθρέφτης λαού, ἄστη αυτού.

如果希腊国民继续信阴谋论,外资救世主的,不为自己的行为负责, 他们会灭亡。

人は何かの犠牲なしに何も得ることはできない。何かを得るためには同等の代価が必要になる。それが、生活における等価交換の原則だ。その頃僕らは、それが世界の真実だと信じていた。時間は、最も貴重な資源である。だから、誰の時間もあなたは無駄にしてはいけないし、誰もが他の人の時間を無駄にしないでください。

Wiederschönmachung liked this post
WhiteMagick no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 3rd, 2013, 01:44 PM   #4039
keepthepast
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 977
Likes (Received): 1677

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiaren View Post
These have to go ASAP:


You're right Tiaren, and as mentioned before 'where is Churchill when you need him?' The Kulturpalast is being protected by substantial money and power as a symbol of DDR accomplishment, in spite of the obvious fact that such an "accomplishment" is like saying pollution is a positive accomplishment of the industrial age.

The other three buildings, residential above ground level retail space, met necessary housing needs at the time they were built. These accomplished the 'something is better than nothing' agenda when there was little money and aesthetic/historic consideration. Now that the obvious mistakes are clear, they need to be removed and the area redesigned. The current sidewalks are too wide. The first floors are ugly and uninteresting. The residential floors look like prisons or warehouse storage facilities. The lengths of the buildings create a wall barrier to pedestrian and traffic flow. There's nothing good about them.
__________________

william of waco liked this post
keepthepast no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 3rd, 2013, 06:45 PM   #4040
bavarian urbanist
Verdens Beste
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Ratisbona
Posts: 523
Likes (Received): 647

They should definitely reincorporate the old street network (grid doesn't seem appropriate here), and downsize Willsdruffer Straße.
__________________
There is no god, especially not Allah!
bavarian urbanist no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
classic architecture, classic europe, construction updates, dresden, reconstruction, redevelopment, rekonstrucje, rekonstruktion, sachsen

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 12:27 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

Hosted by Blacksun, dedicated to this site too!
Forum server management by DaiTengu