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Old October 3rd, 2013, 09:50 PM   #4041
SonOfThomp
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How to replace that awful mess?

I have some suggestions, not that it'll ever happen:

Wilsdruffer-Strße, east from Altmarkt:
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Wilsdruffer-Strße, east at intersection with Moritz-Straße:
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Old October 4th, 2013, 01:30 AM   #4042
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keepthepast View Post
The other three buildings, residential above ground level retail space, met necessary housing needs at the time they were built. These accomplished the 'something is better than nothing' agenda when there was little money and aesthetic/historic consideration. Now that the obvious mistakes are clear, they need to be removed and the area redesigned.
What for? These buildings are already historic monuments themselves, as remnants of 1950s city planning and Stalinist architecture.

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Originally Posted by keepthepast View Post
The current sidewalks are too wide.
It's the first time I've read that sidewalks in any large city thoroughfare are too wide. What would you prefer? 6-lane motorway instead?

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Originally Posted by keepthepast View Post
The first floors are ugly and uninteresting.
?? Shops and other places attracting people are uninteresting??

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Originally Posted by keepthepast View Post
The residential floors look like prisons or warehouse storage facilities.
It seems to me that they are modest, but well-designed above-average residential houses.

The problem is not a problem. The problem is your attitude towards the problem

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The lengths of the buildings create a wall barrier to pedestrian and traffic flow.
The lenght of these buildings is exactly one Viertel. What's the difference (apart from esthetic point of view) between one building lenght of 100 metres and four buildings, 25 m each? The most important thing is that there are no dead ends and there is possibility to cross Wilsdruffer Strasse from north to south. Not to mention that the traffic flow was reduced to a minimum, IIRC there is 30 kph zone and priority for trams. Perhaps Wilsd. S. was a barrier during GDR, now it is merely a city street.

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There's nothing good about them.
I can think of many more places that can be developed (either in modern, or in reconstruction style) in Dresden, for example car park between St. Petersburger Strasse and Schiessgasse. And if someone wants to destroy commieblocks, there are still plenty of them on the other side of St. Petersburger Strasse.
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Old October 4th, 2013, 01:35 AM   #4043
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The sidewalks are not too wide per se, but as Willsdrufferstraße is no real big street, the buildings should be built closer to the centre of it. That street was afaik built for marches and parades of the socialist Unrechtsstaat and should be shrunk back to its original size.
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Old October 4th, 2013, 01:39 AM   #4044
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SonOfThomp View Post
I have some suggestions, not that it'll ever happen:

Wilsdruffer-Strße, east at intersection with Moritz-Straße:
19th century rent-houses. Thousands (if not thousands, than certainly hundreds) of them (even better, because original and standing) one can find on the other side of the river (Elbe).

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Originally Posted by bavarian urbanist View Post
The sidewalks are not too wide per se, but as Willsdrufferstraße is no real big street, the buildings should be built closer to the centre of it. That street was afaik built for marches and parades of the socialist Unrechtsstaat and should be shrunk back to its original size.
If Wilsdruffer Strasse is too wide I dread to think what's your opinion about Haussmann's Paris Boulvards Champs Elysees are 70 m wide.
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Old October 4th, 2013, 02:33 AM   #4045
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Don't you think, it is the most amazing thing, how Dresden today looks again, after literally being reduced to ashes?

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The Frauenkirche in Dresden by echumachenco - Thanks so much to all of you!!, on Flickr

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Dresden Neumarkt by langkawi, on Flickr

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Dresdner Ansichten IX by Andreas Issleib, on Flickr

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Dresdner Ansichten V by Andreas Issleib, on Flickr

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Dresdner Ansichten XI by Andreas Issleib, on Flickr

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Streets of Altes Dresden by suebonnell, on Flickr

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Dresdner Häuserzeile I by Andreas Issleib, on Flickr

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Dresdner Ansichten VII by Andreas Issleib, on Flickr

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Augustusstraße, Dresden, German by kwongman, on Flickr

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DRESDEN - Kurländerpalais_1 by robertasoriano, on Flickr

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Zwinger Dresden Germany by kwongman, on Flickr

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Altstadt 5 by MoJo0103, on Flickr

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2009 Dresden by Hornplayer, on Flickr

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Dresden Neumarkt by HarryBo73, on Flickr

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Altstadt 7 by MoJo0103, on Flickr

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New Market square-Dresden by doveoggi, on Flickr

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Schlossplatz, Dresden by sky#walker, on Flickr

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Dresden my love... by fresch-energy, on Flickr

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Seufzerbrücke by sky#walker, on Flickr

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The Free State of Saxony by Stuck in Customs, on Flickr

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DSC_1778 by carlp83, on Flickr

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The Semperoper in Morning Light #2 by 1982Chris911 (Thank you 1.250.000 Times), on Flickr

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Historical Dresden in "alpine glow" by echumachenco - Thanks so much to all of you!!, on Flickr

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Crossing by lumofix, on Flickr

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Dresdner Pracht ! by Mundus Gregorius, on Flickr

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FM_Dresden_Skyline-4 by Wild_Places, on Flickr

And there's still much to do and to come!
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Old October 4th, 2013, 04:20 AM   #4046
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Fabulous post, Tiaren.
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Old October 4th, 2013, 10:33 AM   #4047
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mruczek View Post
If Wilsdruffer Strasse is too wide I dread to think what's your opinion about Haussmann's Paris Boulvards Champs Elysees are 70 m wide.
I'd sure prefer the old, pre-haussmannian Paris, but his Boulevards are OK. The Problem with Willsdruffer is that this is in the middle of the old town. There are Boulevards around the outside of the central city, called the Promenadenring.
Plus, Haussmanns Boulevards have Grandezza, Willsdruffer doesn't. Even the dreadful bulevardul unii in Bucharest has more Grandezza than Willsdruffer.
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Old October 4th, 2013, 11:11 AM   #4048
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bavarian urbanist View Post
I'd sure prefer the old, pre-haussmannian Paris, ...
Have You been there? Please tell me Your secret: where is the Fountain of Youth?
Just kidding
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Old October 4th, 2013, 11:14 AM   #4049
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The Champs-Elysees is lined with fantastic buildings. The Wilsdruffer Straße on the other hand is bordered by average housing blocks, that you'd usually find somewhere on the outer reaches of a city. If those blocks looked similar to the ones on the Altmarkt, I'd have a far more favorable view of them.
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Old October 4th, 2013, 01:17 PM   #4050
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I completely empathise with the need to rebuilt the lost heart of the city - a heart that was like a ghost living in the consciousness of the people since the war. It had to be rebuilt to heal that injury and to give the people their identity back.

While this is the case, I think the process of rebuilding is even more important than having a 'completed' city centre. After all, no living city heart can ever be finished. It is the beating heart of a city that drives the whole place. I worry that Dresden is building a city centre that will eventually be fixed and untouchable, which is perverse for a brand new city.

Already it is being treated like a museum city - and like many European museum cities it serves very little purpose for local people - it caters for tourists alone - cafe's museums, attractions, expensive shops... The people of Dresden prefer the more dynamic, modern parts of the city near the station etc. Those are the places that can reflect who and what Dresden is today, and that can change to reflect what dresden will be tomorrow.

When I recently visited the centre of Dresden I found it dull, sterile and lifeless. There were only tourists and it seemed like a stage set. There was very little depth or energy, in contrast to the street that leads to the centre from the station, which were full of life, energy and creativity.

I hope that Dresden isnt building itself a dead city centre that will define the city forever as a place lost in its memories.
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Old October 4th, 2013, 03:15 PM   #4051
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Just give it some time. Of course it all feels rather artificial now, just being recently finished. Same goes for most modern quarters though, so it doesn't really make a difference. It's important to bring back life to this place, the whole inner city needs to be densified.

But I think the sole Neumarkt area will be just too small to serve as a center for locals. If reconstructions and re-urbanization aren't extended beyond that, it probably won't change much from being a place merely for visitors. Anyway, better have some people there than having none at all (like before the reconstruction work started).
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Old October 4th, 2013, 03:26 PM   #4052
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steppenwolf View Post
I completely empathise with the need to rebuilt a lost heart of a city - a heart that was like a ghost living in the consciousness of the people since the war. It had to be rebuilt to heal that injury and to give the people their identity back.

While this is the case, I think the process of rebuilding is even more important than havign a 'completed' city centre. After all, no living city heart can ever be finished. It is the beating heart of a city that drives the whole place. I worry that Dresden is building a city centre that will eventually be fixed and untouchable, which is perverse for a brand new city.

Already it is beign treated like a museum city - and like many european museum cities it serves very little purpose for local people - it caters for tourists alone - cafe's museums, attractions, expensive shops... the people of Dresden prefer the more dynamic, modern parts of the city near the station etc. Those are the places that can reflect who and what Dresden is today, and that can change to reflect what dresden will be tomorrow.

When I recently visited the centre of Dresden I found it dull, sterile and lifeless. There were only tourists and it seemed like a stage set. There was very little depth or energy, in contrast to the street that leads to the centre from the station, which was full of life.

I hope that Dresden isnt building itself a dead city centre that will define the city as a place lost in its memories.

+1

I couldn't agree more with this impression.
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Old October 4th, 2013, 04:03 PM   #4053
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steppenwolf View Post
I completely empathise with the need to rebuilt a lost heart of a city - a heart that was like a ghost living in the consciousness of the people since the war. It had to be rebuilt to heal that injury and to give the people their identity back.

While this is the case, I think the process of rebuilding is even more important than havign a 'completed' city centre. After all, no living city heart can ever be finished. It is the beating heart of a city that drives the whole place. I worry that Dresden is building a city centre that will eventually be fixed and untouchable, which is perverse for a brand new city.

Already it is beign treated like a museum city - and like many european museum cities it serves very little purpose for local people - it caters for tourists alone - cafe's museums, attractions, expensive shops... the people of Dresden prefer the more dynamic, modern parts of the city near the station etc. Those are the places that can reflect who and what Dresden is today, and that can change to reflect what dresden will be tomorrow.

When I recently visited the centre of Dresden I found it dull, sterile and lifeless. There were only tourists and it seemed like a stage set. There was very little depth or energy, in contrast to the street that leads to the centre from the station, which was full of life.

I hope that Dresden isnt building itself a dead city centre that will define the city as a place lost in its memories.
Interesting and insightful comments, but I think the spirit of what is stated leads to the loss of architecturally important buildings, neighborhoods, and city personalities overall.

The first and second paragraphs above seem like contradictions. Buildings and city plans are designed to last for over 100 years and more. Ripping the heart out of a well designed and planned city center is not making it lively, rather killing it. I think we need not worry that an 'untouchable Dresden' would emerge from the efforts to reinstate its former architectural glory; after all, much remodeling and reworking of the center city was done over the years preceding the war. But those changes were generally in concert with the city's soul and historical presence.

The vast majority of even new construction in Dresden that was supposedly well thought out and planned is modernist. I think the area of the Neumarkt is indeed a museum and should be respected as such. once completed, it will draw tourists and locals alike to experience and enjoy a small part of what the larger city area looked like at one time.
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Old October 5th, 2013, 11:23 PM   #4054
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Great Photos!

Tiaren:

Thank you for the great photos of the restored heart of Dresden. When you see something this beautiful, it should remind everyone, Germans and those from other nations included, that a city like this is worth restoring and preserving for present and future generations. I for one am grateful for everything that has been done to accomplish that.
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Old October 6th, 2013, 10:18 AM   #4055
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Hotel Stadt Leipzig









Location for this building

http://www.bausituation-dresden.de/

I hope it's ok that I posted pics for this building. It's not in the Altstadt but I consider this thread to be about the general reconstruction of Dresden.

Does anyone have any plans for what they intend to do with this building's renovation?
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Old October 7th, 2013, 03:12 AM   #4056
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I think it´s not a demolition? On Google maps it looks much... 'better' is not the right word, but certainly not half-demolished like in these pics.
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Old October 7th, 2013, 07:40 AM   #4057
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Found this for the Hotel Stadt Leipzig


http://www.seidelarchitekten.de/HotelStadtLeipzig.html
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Old October 7th, 2013, 09:12 AM   #4058
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SonOfThomp View Post
I have some suggestions, not that it'll ever happen:

Wilsdruffer-Strße, east from Altmarkt:
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Wilsdruffer-Strße, east at intersection with Moritz-Straße:
Uploaded with ImageShack.com
So that was fun, you showed us the historical buildings in Wilsdruffer street, and the buildings which replaced them. Which one do you want to reconstruct?
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Old October 7th, 2013, 08:14 PM   #4059
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Not really. The photos show two different sections of Wilsdruffer strasse.
We want both to be reconstructed!
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Old October 7th, 2013, 09:17 PM   #4060
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That hotel restoration is going to be amazing.
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