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Old November 17th, 2013, 11:12 PM   #4161
White Light
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Does anyone have any picture of some incorporated old basement of other, already finished buildings?
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Old November 18th, 2013, 05:51 PM   #4162
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It 'also one of my curiosity
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Old November 18th, 2013, 06:48 PM   #4163
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Spa-Bereich Swiss Hotel


Rüstkammergebäude


http://www.neumarkt-dresden.de/baubi...r-juli-12.html

Rampische Straße 29 (GHND building)






http://www.neumarkt-dresden.de/baubi...pril-2009.html

"Zunftgewölbe" Sophienkeller Restaurant, Taschenbergpalais

http://www.sophienkeller-dresden.de/...rundgang&id=11

Heinrich Schütz Residenz




http://www.boarding-in-dresden.de/impressionen.htm
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Old November 18th, 2013, 07:47 PM   #4164
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Bravooo, thanks! This is great!
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Old November 19th, 2013, 02:15 AM   #4165
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A cool concept indeed!
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Old November 19th, 2013, 01:26 PM   #4166
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Thanks
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Old November 19th, 2013, 03:28 PM   #4167
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I am not superstitious...but I'd be very uncomfortable to live above or even party in one of those original basements. Dozens of people were cooped up in there in the tragic bombing night. Many people (whole families) didn't survive, but suffocated, burnt to death or took their own lives to escape this hell...
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Old November 19th, 2013, 07:56 PM   #4168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiaren View Post
I am not superstitious...but I'd be very uncomfortable to live above or even party in one of those original basements. Dozens of people were cooped up in there in the tragic bombing night. Many people (whole families) didn't survive, but suffocated, burnt to death or took their own lives to escape this hell...
Indeed. The way they're attempting to give them a feeling of coziness is kind of creepy. They should be filled in.
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Old November 19th, 2013, 08:15 PM   #4169
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People also walk and celebrate on the streets where people burned to ashes or suffocated due to the firestorm. It does not help anyone to destroy all still existing basements (by the way, most basements they found are or are going to be destroyed anyway).
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Old November 19th, 2013, 08:31 PM   #4170
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I didn't say to destroy the basements. I am for preserving them. But it is still creepy as hell. (Even more to relax and party in them).
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Old November 19th, 2013, 08:39 PM   #4171
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Quote:
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People also walk and celebrate on the streets where people burned to ashes or suffocated due to the firestorm. It does not help anyone to destroy all still existing basements (by the way, most basements they found are or are going to be destroyed anyway).
Most of these basements have been covered over since the war. To me they are the equivalent of tombs and to disinter them for the sake of chicness is in bad taste.
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Old November 19th, 2013, 09:31 PM   #4172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiaren View Post
I am not superstitious...but I'd be very uncomfortable to live above or even party in one of those original basements. Dozens of people were cooped up in there in the tragic bombing night. Many people (whole families) didn't survive, but suffocated, burnt to death or took their own lives to escape this hell...
I totally disagree. Firstly, its a basement, many people die in buildings and we don't destroy them or board them up. You need to remember the loss of life, but you dont need to make every basement a sober place of morning. I think a plaque in remembrance would be nice, but other than that they should be able to use the space in whatever way the city zoning allows.

I would have no problem living in the building or drinking in the basement. Bad stuff happens, best to remember, but get on with living.
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Old November 19th, 2013, 09:57 PM   #4173
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On the other hand; who can say if the basements in question were death traps or safe havens for families who managed to survive the bombings thanks to them, even though they caved in.
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Old November 19th, 2013, 10:07 PM   #4174
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I totally disagree. Firstly, its a basement, many people die in buildings and we don't destroy them or board them up. You need to remember the loss of life, but you dont need to make every basement a sober place of morning. I think a plaque in remembrance would be nice, but other than that they should be able to use the space in whatever way the city zoning allows.

I would have no problem living in the building or drinking in the basement. Bad stuff happens, best to remember, but get on with living.
Yes, bad stuff happens and in nearly all older houses at least someone died, but these cellars are basically sites of mass murder. Come on, be real, would you buy and live in a house, where you knew, dozens of people died a cruel, violent death? And if you would, what I don't believe, would you make the exact room, where all that happened, your party room?
Again, I'm not saying to destroy the cellars or to not use them at all, I'm just saying, it is creepy and a spa paradise or a bar is highly inappropriate.
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Old November 19th, 2013, 11:45 PM   #4175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiaren View Post
Yes, bad stuff happens and in nearly all older houses at least someone died, but these cellars are basically sites of mass murder. Come on, be real, would you buy and live in a house, where you knew, dozens of people died a cruel, violent death? And if you would, what I don't believe, would you make the exact room, where all that happened, your party room?
Again, I'm not saying to destroy the cellars or to not use them at all, I'm just saying, it is creepy and a spa paradise or a bar is highly inappropriate.
I dont want to hijack this thread, and this is purely my opinion, but there is a difference between a place where "mass murder" occurred with "violent and cruel deaths" and a house that was bombed from the sky where people *may* have died. Most German cities were carpet bombed, I think you would be hard pressed to find a collapsed building in a major city that did not have casualties.

These buildings are completely rebuilt. Only a few basement cellars walls are preserved. Even then there is no evidence people were trapped inside. I love how they have preserved the original basement walls, and no disrespect to the dead, but I would have no problem using the space for a quiet spa or lounge.

As a memorial I would rather a central memorial in Dresden be built to remember those who died during the bombing. Unfortunately Germany has its own identity issues to work out before such a memorial would be politically supported. I think a memorial out in a beautiful public space would be a more fitting gesture for the people who died, then turning all the basements to tombs.
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Old November 19th, 2013, 11:58 PM   #4176
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Old November 20th, 2013, 01:41 AM   #4177
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Oh, Dresden already has a monument in a "public space", at the Altmarkt. It is absolutely conspicuous.


https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...ftangriffe.jpg

"Nach den Luftangriffen vom 13. bis 14. Februar 1945 auf Dresden wurden an dieser Stelle die Leichen von 6865 Menschen verbrannt" (After the air raids on Dresden at 13./14h February 1945, the bodies of 6865 people were burnt at this place.
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Old November 20th, 2013, 02:43 AM   #4178
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Old November 20th, 2013, 04:07 AM   #4179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by william of waco View Post
Indeed. The way they're attempting to give them a feeling of coziness is kind of creepy. They should be filled in.
No, it isn´t creepy!!

If it were so, who on Earth would want to live in or visit places like Jerusalem, who would want to visit the Colosseum in Rome? Millions do.
But places like Jerusalem or the Colosseum in Rome are full of death. You are supposed to go beyond all that, to get over it.
Lots of people died in Dresden, yes. Who will remember them in 150 years, in the year 2163? Not me, I´ll be dead, and you too.
But the basements will be there, more or less like always.
And the façades too, more or less like they were, almost undistinguishable from the original ones.

Don´t pity the dead, pity the living.
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Old November 20th, 2013, 11:59 AM   #4180
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Many people had died in the Fire-storm of Dresden, and many inside the basements of the old city. But no one has been buried inside these basements.
This also happened in many cities were Fire-storms occured.

No, I agree, there is nothing creepy in re-using those cellars, even for wellness.

Whom may be interested, I suggest to read this book: Der Tod von Dresden by Axel Rodenberger. That's really creepy.
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