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Old December 7th, 2014, 11:53 AM   #4701
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goy View Post
Communists has committed 2 kinds of crimes:

1 - against humanity;

2 - against architecture!
Well, I don't like communists at all, but let's be honest - movement against traditional architecture and for the ugly boring boxes affected in that age whole globe, regardless political and economical system.
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Old December 7th, 2014, 03:10 PM   #4702
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goy View Post
Communists has committed 2 kinds of crimes:

1 - against humanity;

2 - against architecture!
Both are true for capitalists and fascists as well. So don't blame it on the communists, who did some good things, too.
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Old December 8th, 2014, 03:03 AM   #4703
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Quote:
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Communists has committed 2 kinds of crimes:

1 - against humanity;

2 - against architecture!
Sounds like Capitalists.
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Old December 8th, 2014, 11:17 PM   #4704
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Originally Posted by bavarian urbanist View Post
Both are true for capitalists and fascists as well. So don't blame it on the communists, who did some good things, too.
Absolutely agree! You only have to witness some of the unbelievable crap constructed in South American Cities (which were not under Communist control) during the 1960's and 70's, not to mention U.K. cities etc. etc.to realise that this malaise was not peculiar to Communist regimes. And yes, the commies actually did some good restorations, reconstructions immediately post WW2 but by the middle 60's it all went sour.
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Old December 8th, 2014, 11:23 PM   #4705
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I quite like it. Yes it may be in the wrong place but the building itself seems fine. What are they doing to it with the refurb?
I tend to agree with you. As a modernist building it's not that bad, nothing special of course but I can think of hundreds if not thousands of buildings from that dark era which are far worse. Its main problem is the location, so close to the reconstructed old centre of Dresden.
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Old December 9th, 2014, 04:31 AM   #4706
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Sounds like Capitalists.
Look at the pictures of East Germany when the Communists ran things and look how it looks now. Look on youtube at before and after pictures of Goerlitz. Look at Poland. Yeah communism was great. That's why they had to build walls to keep the people from getting out and telling the rest of the world how good life was where they lived. No system is perfect but I'll take capitalism any day of the week.
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Old December 9th, 2014, 05:29 AM   #4707
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Hi guys! The problem starts with everyone`s personal bubble. We need common ground to meet! Names for example. Communists never existed. They where supporters of the communist idea. That idea called a society with no government or money in existence. Those people "here" where non democratic socialists. They also where using money. The soviet union also used the private money system of the United States.
Capitalists and socialists are "relatively" spoken the same. One side, the business owner decides how many tooth brushes get delivered. The other side, the government employee makes that decision.
Democratic is neither. Saudi Arabia or Somalia are the most capitalistic country`s!
Fascists and National Socialists are two different groups.
While everyone is busy accusing the other side, the central banks will win time.
To make it more difficult for us citizens to see the "showrunners" one example of here in Canada: We have a Democratic elected government. Also non elected "neutral" courts that also make laws. Than we have the British Empire and on top a fascist central bank not elected, with appointed officials from the Bank of England, also private, of course!
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Old December 9th, 2014, 06:05 AM   #4708
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The Bauhaus architecture started in the town of Dessau and meet with the global socialist movement in places like Hungary. After National Socialists of Hungary pushed them out they moved to Germany. Many Books written back then call to replace Paris, London, Berlin, Tokyo, Mexico City and all others with one style to build in. The idea of what become known as the Frankfurt school in 1929 was to create the same looking places for everyone. The people would accept one world government more easy, if lifestyle would meet. Around 90 % of the members where of Jewish religion or background. When the Nazis come to power, the National Socialists did not like the Global Socialists and those had to flee around 1934. That`s how Bauhaus Architecture spread over western society.
In the 1940 and 50`s even the CIA had meetings about "how to differ to the Soviets!"
Until 1955 the Soviets used the Neo classical style. So the CIA pushed Bauhaus in the media with tax money. The Soviets fallowed suit after Stalin's (murder?) death.
But, it was`t just decoration that had changed, but also on "where" to put the buildings on a street plan had changed. Another thing that changed was the quality. Buildings build in Germany in 1978 needed 8 times the amount of heating fuel than an average 1918 building!!! Architects called in cameras while happy smiling in 1958: It is designed to last only 20 to 40 Years! We will never have unemployment ever again!
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Old December 9th, 2014, 03:30 PM   #4709
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robertwood View Post
Look at the pictures of East Germany when the Communists ran things and look how it looks now. Look on youtube at before and after pictures of Goerlitz. Look at Poland. Yeah communism was great. That's why they had to build walls to keep the people from getting out and telling the rest of the world how good life was where they lived. No system is perfect but I'll take capitalism any day of the week.
You do know that communism is not as bad as american propaganda told you? At least, they had good medical care, free childcare, more working women,... (I prefer our social market economy, of course, but I wouldn't want to live in a laissez-faire capitalist country that calls Obama a socialist[quite funny, honestly, given that even Angela Merkel is less rightwing than him])
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Old December 9th, 2014, 05:11 PM   #4710
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Worth mentioning that Communism co-existed with at least three different architectural styles:
- formalism (constructivism): 1920s, up to mid 1930s
- neo-classicism (Stalinist empire, totalitarian historism): 1930s up to mid 1950s
- late modernism (functionalism): mid 1950s to 1989/91

And, obviously, while controversial Kulturpalast in Dresden is late modernism, the Altmarkt was rebuilt (although not reconstructed) in quite nice historic fashion of 1950s. Probably it would be better, if it was reconstructed, but still it is second-best choice.
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Old December 9th, 2014, 06:27 PM   #4711
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On another note: Bauhaus is a really great style, just look at all the great Buildings Mies van Rohe built. The problem is that Bauhaus only looks good if it's well kept and if good materials are used. Given that communist countries were not really rich, it's clear that the cheaply built Houses fell into disrepair.
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Old December 9th, 2014, 07:16 PM   #4712
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bavarian urbanist View Post
On another note: Bauhaus is a really great style, just look at all the great Buildings Mies van Rohe built. The problem is that Bauhaus only looks good if it's well kept and if good materials are used. Given that communist countries were not really rich, it's clear that the cheaply built Houses fell into disrepair.
I guess they are OK, until you place one next to just about anything else. Then, it looks like a box.

I personally think that van der Rohe, Corbusier, et al, ruined architecture. Frankfurt looks like London looks like Dallas looks like .... Anywhere.
The International Style is anything BUT a style. It is purposefully drained of any art. A "machine for living"? Yes. But just don't look at the exterior.
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Old December 9th, 2014, 07:40 PM   #4713
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Originally Posted by SonOfThomp View Post
I guess they are OK, until you place one next to just about anything else. Then, it looks like a box.

I personally think that van der Rohe, Corbusier, et al, ruined architecture. Frankfurt looks like London looks like Dallas looks like .... Anywhere.
The International Style is anything BUT a style. It is purposefully drained of any art. A "machine for living"? Yes. But just don't look at the exterior.
I couldn't agree more.
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Old December 9th, 2014, 10:00 PM   #4714
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SonOfThomp View Post
I guess they are OK, until you place one next to just about anything else. Then, it looks like a box.

I personally think that van der Rohe, Corbusier, et al, ruined architecture. Frankfurt looks like London looks like Dallas looks like .... Anywhere.
The International Style is anything BUT a style. It is purposefully drained of any art. A "machine for living"? Yes. But just don't look at the exterior.
I'm not a huge fan of Corbusier's international style, especially when it comes to office boxes, however Gropius' and van Rohe's bauhaus/functionalistic style can work very well, especially as single family residences.

It all comes down to design and choice of materials.

Alan I W Frank House, Gropius

Wikipedia

Villa Tugendhat, van der Rohe (granted, badly kept)

Wikipedia

Ängbyhöjden 28, Stockholm

Wikipedia

Bauhaus Musem, Tel Aviv

Wikipedia

A couple of more urban houses which I find agreeable as well:


Wikipedia


Wikipedia


Wikipedia
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Old December 10th, 2014, 09:48 AM   #4715
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SonOfThomp View Post
I personally think that van der Rohe, Corbusier, et al, ruined architecture. Frankfurt looks like London looks like Dallas looks like .... Anywhere.
The International Style is anything BUT a style. It is purposefully drained of any art. A "machine for living"? Yes. But just don't look at the exterior.
You have to understand why they revolted against the "old" stiles, its in fact part of a humanistic movement to increase living situations for all people, not just for the rich.
Their main problem is, that they failed in many aspects because they tried to combine social goals with capitalism. This will never work properly. and they failed, because, especially Corbusier and others were totalitarian in their architectual thinking, who where only addicted to their own ideas.

You know whats happening when you think youre right in every aspect without any self reflection?

You're doing mistakes without recognizing and after all you'll fail!


Dont mistunderstand, modernism did some amazing things and had great ideas of a new civilisation. But they failed as the started to stick to totalitarian architectual doctrines.
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Old December 10th, 2014, 09:58 AM   #4716
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Originally Posted by Tolbert View Post
You have to understand why they revolted against the "old" stiles, its in fact part of a humanistic movement to increase living situations for all people, not just for the rich.
Their main problem is, that they failed in many aspects because they tried to combine social goals with capitalism. This will never work properly. and they failed, because, especially Corbusier and others were totalitarian in their architectual thinking, who where only addicted to their own ideas.

You know whats happening when you think youre right in every aspect without any self reflection?

You're doing mistakes without recognizing and after all you'll fail!


Dont mistunderstand, modernism did some amazing things and had great ideas of a new civilisation. But they failed as the started to stick to totalitarian architectual doctrines.
The thing is that Le Corbusier dehumanised architecture like the communists dehumanised the society. Make everyone equal and destroy old social concepts = build huge commieblocks and force everybody to live inside them like the chickens in cages.

Constructivist architecture of 30's (like the one below, from Tel Aviv) is different as it still has human scale, few and larger appartments and is build according to the traditional perimetrical planning.

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Old December 10th, 2014, 01:08 PM   #4717
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Neumarkt Dresden Quartier VII/2 - aktuell 08.12.2014















http://www.dresdner-bauten.de/
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Old December 10th, 2014, 03:18 PM   #4718
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Old December 10th, 2014, 06:12 PM   #4719
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And slowly, step by step the Kulturpalast becomes less visible from the Neumarkt. Great development!
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Old December 10th, 2014, 08:53 PM   #4720
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I'm not a huge fan of Corbusier's international style, especially when it comes to office boxes, however Gropius' and van Rohe's bauhaus/functionalistic style can work very well, especially as single family residences.

It all comes down to design and choice of materials.
Imagine an enteire city built in this style:

Brasilia, capital of Brazil:


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