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Old March 2nd, 2015, 07:06 PM   #4781
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Old March 2nd, 2015, 08:03 PM   #4782
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Quote:
Originally Posted by photolitherland View Post
Wow, war is so god damned stupid.
War can't be smarter than the people fighting it, and viceversa.
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Old March 2nd, 2015, 11:08 PM   #4783
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War can't be smarter than the people fighting it, and viceversa.
The people fighting it are the young men forced into it. The stupid ones are the ones who got it going in the first place...who often bore none of the pain and suffering.
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Old March 2nd, 2015, 11:34 PM   #4784
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The bombing of Dresden was a war crime. It's just that simple. There is no shame to admit it and history has recognized this truth. 70 year passed since then no regrets, no guilty, no revenge, it's just history.
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Dresden had military industry and was a huge garrison city. But both were not the primary target of the british air raids and suffered only low or no damage. Instead they bombed the strategic and military unsignificant old town. Thats the problem.
I am SORRY, i know that this is thread about architecture and not history, i am the first one to actually react on that, but i cannot believe that today anyone dares to question legitimacy of bombing of Dresden.
Bergen-Belsen, Dachau, Auschwitz, Treblinka were also "military insignificant locations". I would that actually call, war crimes, and not the revenge destruction of cities. As we see now, cities and towns are rising again, while those people are here no more.

I also fell sorry for the lost things, but keep forever in mind real war crimes, please.
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Old March 2nd, 2015, 11:35 PM   #4785
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The people fighting it are the young men forced into it. The stupid ones are the ones who got it going in the first place...who often bore none of the pain and suffering.
Of course!
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Old March 2nd, 2015, 11:48 PM   #4786
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I am SORRY, i know that this is thread about architecture and not history, i am the first one to actually react on that, but i cannot believe that today anyone dares to question legitimacy of bombing of Dresden. Bergen-Belsen, Dachau, Auschwitz, Treblinka were also "military insignificant locations". I would that actually call, war crimes, and not the revenge destruction of cities. As we see now, cities and towns are rising again, while those people are here no more. I also fell sorry for the lost things, but keep forever in mind real war crimes, please.
Dresden was a real war crime. It's not controverse, it's an historic fact almost accepted first of all by Brits. It was a scientific, accurate and disuman act of distruction, of annihilation of lives and absolutely useless for any purpose than itself.
By all respect for all other war crimes done before, during and after WWII.
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Old March 3rd, 2015, 12:18 AM   #4787
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Quote:
Originally Posted by White Light View Post
...but i cannot believe that today anyone dares to question legitimacy of bombing of Dresden.
Bergen-Belsen, Dachau, Auschwitz, Treblinka were also "military insignificant locations". I would that actually call, war crimes, and not the revenge destruction of cities. As we see now, cities and towns are rising again, while those people are here no more.
I really don't want to trivialise the horrible crimes the Nazis did to the world, especially to the Jews! But if you take a look at those photos of the destruction of Dresden on the previous page (which is only one example of hundreds of bombed cities in WWII)...how many children, for example, do you think, died in these air raids? Were they guilty for what the Nazis did? You can't kill people to revenge the killing of other people! Don't you get that? That's barbarous, too!
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Old March 3rd, 2015, 01:36 PM   #4788
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Quote:
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but i cannot believe that today anyone dares to question legitimacy of bombing of Dresden.
Of course you can't believe it. You've never been firestormed yourself. To you, the fiery destruction of numerous other German cities was not enough! As has been explained numerous times here, the fate of Dresden was unnecessary. The war was long since over.
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Old March 3rd, 2015, 02:53 PM   #4789
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del, shouldn't have gotten into political discussions.

Last edited by Weissenberg; March 3rd, 2015 at 03:29 PM.
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Old March 3rd, 2015, 05:16 PM   #4790
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Well, to get back on topic: In one of the recent photos I noticed a construction crane on the site of the future Hoym Palais. Is it being used for the work on the new building across the street or (I sincerely hope) the construction of the Hoym?

Wars start when peoples argue endlessly over past grievances. I have the greatest admiration for Germany and how the country is rebuilding many of the buildings lost in WWII.
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Old March 3rd, 2015, 06:01 PM   #4791
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Quote:
Originally Posted by White Light View Post
I am SORRY, i know that this is thread about architecture and not history, i am the first one to actually react on that, but i cannot believe that today anyone dares to question legitimacy of bombing of Dresden.
Bergen-Belsen, Dachau, Auschwitz, Treblinka were also "military insignificant locations". I would that actually call, war crimes, and not the revenge destruction of cities. As we see now, cities and towns are rising again, while those people are here no more.

I also fell sorry for the lost things, but keep forever in mind real war crimes, please.
agreed. although the firebombing of Dresden made no sense strategically and is regrettable - that is not the war crime of that period. the attempted extermination of the Jews was the war crime, among several, of that period.

as a tangential aside, does everyone remember the novel "Slaughterhouse 5" by Vonnegut and the film made about it later? among other things, it concerns the experience of allied prisoners of war in Dresden who survived
the horrendous firebombing. great story, great movie. in particular I remember the lead character Billy Pilgrim and his coat given to him by his Nazi guards while he was a prisoner. they gave him a fine woman's coat with a large fur collar. I am not sure what the author intended by that act of Billy Pilgrim being forced to wear a woman's coat, but I wondered esp while I watched the film - where did that coat come from?

could it have been the property of a prosperous German woman who was dead and bombed out? maybe . but more likely it was the stolen property of a murdered Jewish woman who died in a death camp just a hundred miles or so from Dresden - Auschwitz. that thought puts the Dresden "holocaust " in some perspective.
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Old March 3rd, 2015, 08:40 PM   #4792
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Quote:
Originally Posted by White Light View Post
I am SORRY, i know that this is thread about architecture and not history, i am the first one to actually react on that, but i cannot believe that today anyone dares to question legitimacy of bombing of Dresden.
Bergen-Belsen, Dachau, Auschwitz, Treblinka were also "military insignificant locations". I would that actually call, war crimes, and not the revenge destruction of cities. As we see now, cities and towns are rising again, while those people are here no more.

I also fell sorry for the lost things, but keep forever in mind real war crimes, please.
The revenge (or, more precisely, requital) for Dachau, Auschwitz etc. was the Nuremberg trial. Maybe it was not enough, cause some of persons responsible for war crimes managed to escape (in South America etc.). But Dresden bombings could not be judged as a requital, it was inadequate in terms of guilt and punishment. Because most of the people who died there (not to mention a damage to the world's culture heritage) were not those who invented or ruled Auschwitz and likes of it. And even if one considers them to be anyway responsible because they "let it happen" or so (and ignores little children who could not be claimed responsible even in that sense) - even then the "punishment" they got was not adequate to their guilt.
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Old March 3rd, 2015, 09:41 PM   #4793
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Neumarkt Quartier IV/3 - Friesengasse/ Landhausstraße - aktuell 01.03.2015















http://www.dresdner-bauten.de/
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Old March 3rd, 2015, 09:44 PM   #4794
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Quote:
Originally Posted by photolitherland View Post
Wow, war is so god damned stupid.
+1

I don't know why, but I tend to be very emotional about the destruction of architecture, infrastructure and vehicles... For some reason - much more than I am about people. I just hate to see the destruction of something that men have spend enormous time, money and effort into the making. I don't even care about the political reasons - destruction is sad from any viewpoint
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Old March 4th, 2015, 05:07 AM   #4795
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Quote:
Originally Posted by White Light View Post
I am SORRY, i know that this is thread about architecture and not history, i am the first one to actually react on that, but i cannot believe that today anyone dares to question legitimacy of bombing of Dresden.
Bergen-Belsen, Dachau, Auschwitz, Treblinka were also "military insignificant locations". I would that actually call, war crimes, and not the revenge destruction of cities. As we see now, cities and towns are rising again, while those people are here no more.

I also fell sorry for the lost things, but keep forever in mind real war crimes, please.
More of the 'my pain is worse than your pain' litany that makes no sense, unless one is an advocate of vengeance and the never-ending game of 'my crimes are just, yours are not'. This mentality gave us the middle east.,
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Old March 5th, 2015, 01:38 AM   #4796
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Hello, guys. This is my first post on SkyscraperCity and I've been following this thread for months so I wanted to ask some questions about the project. I want to know what do citizens of Dresden think about the reconstructions going on in their city. P.S. In my opinion, they should also reconstruct the Altmarkt because it was beautiful too.
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Old March 5th, 2015, 06:03 AM   #4797
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The city had a once in a 100 year opportunity to at least reconstruct the south side if the AltMarkt, but largely blew it. There were some designs that would have made an excellent square, especially in contrast directly opposite the Kulturpalast. But did not happen.
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Old March 5th, 2015, 03:14 PM   #4798
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I agree. I think the new building is not spectacular in any way, it's just a plain modernist box and it won't become a symbol of the city, or even the square. That's why I support large-scale reconstructions which will give a "new" old look that cities like Dresden and Frankfurt deserve.
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Old March 5th, 2015, 04:24 PM   #4799
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Virtual reality is the new urbanism.

While I appreciate the intent of the rebuilding and the architectural tastes of the city planners, I think the next stage of development is non physical. In other words, with the rise of virtual reality and more powerful computers such as quantum supercomputers, the next great city will be virtual. We will be able to design our own cities and then explore them like they were real. You can recreate all the old cities of Europe in the simulation and even invent new ones. It will be like the matrix.
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Old March 5th, 2015, 04:39 PM   #4800
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That won't happen anytime soon. We should really focus on cities we have today, many of which look horrible.
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