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Old March 22nd, 2015, 07:09 PM   #4821
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Originally Posted by keepthepast View Post


It is ignorance in large part, but unfortunately a large number of people (who vote!) are comfortable, if not pleased, with characterless buildings. And many more, quite frankly, don't even notice. These folks are spending time enjoying Beyonce, demolition derby, and hot dogs in Walmart's parking lot while their city leaders are building trash.
Don't you think this bashing of less well off people is a bit ignorant, too?
Not to say that I wouldn't favour a rebuild of the original buildings along Willsdruffer, but then, the city would have to build new council houses within the centre which might be rather expensive, as you can't simply throw the people out and make them move to the soulless suburbs.
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Old March 22nd, 2015, 09:14 PM   #4822
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Don't you think this bashing of less well off people is a bit ignorant, too?
Not to say that I wouldn't favour a rebuild of the original buildings along Willsdruffer, but then, the city would have to build new council houses within the centre which might be rather expensive, as you can't simply throw the people out and make them move to the soulless suburbs.
Germany is the richest and most powerful European nation. Its surplus is gigantic and with it, whole Dresden could be reconstructed in few years.

Ok, I may be exaggerating, but I don't think that German cities and economy itself would be impoverished by massive reconstruction project.

About the "soulless" suburbs, they aren't the only parts of the German cities that don't have charm and beauty.
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Old March 22nd, 2015, 09:36 PM   #4823
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Germany is the richest and most powerful European nation. Its surplus is gigantic and with it, whole Dresden could be reconstructed in few years.

Ok, I may be exaggerating, but I don't think that German cities and economy itself would be impoverished by massive reconstruction project.

About the "soulless" suburbs, they aren't the only parts of the German cities that don't have charm and beauty.
Well, yes, maybe the city of Dresden could afford to reconstruct buildings and use them as social apartments, but that would be nonsense from a business point of view. Why rent out to the lower middle class if you can sell to the upper ten thousand. And concerning the german budget, even an ape can understand that saving a country to death won't help at all. Our infrastructure is deteriorating, our hospitals, schools and universities could use a lot more money,...
Additionally, Saxony is a net reciever of the Länderfinanzausgleich (equalization payments between the federal states) and if the southern payers stop paying, there'll be a huge chunk of money missing in their budget.

The buildings along Willsdrufferstraße are not really old town material, but they're not bad at all and surely not an eyesore. There's still the chance to get them torn down sometimes and replaced with reconstructions. Rome wasn't built in a day, and so will be Dresden.
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Old March 22nd, 2015, 10:11 PM   #4824
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Well, yes, maybe the city of Dresden could afford to reconstruct buildings and use them as social apartments, but that would be nonsense from a business point of view. Why rent out to the lower middle class if you can sell to the upper ten thousand. And concerning the german budget, even an ape can understand that saving a country to death won't help at all. Our infrastructure is deteriorating, our hospitals, schools and universities could use a lot more money,...
Additionally, Saxony is a net reciever of the Länderfinanzausgleich (equalization payments between the federal states) and if the southern payers stop paying, there'll be a huge chunk of money missing in their budget.

The buildings along Willsdrufferstraße are not really old town material, but they're not bad at all and surely not an eyesore. There's still the chance to get them torn down sometimes and replaced with reconstructions. Rome wasn't built in a day, and so will be Dresden.

I don't think it would be a good idea if the state financed real-estate sector. Croatia still regrets that mistake. But I also think that the state and the city should and MUST be included in construction projects and they must regulate what can and what cannot be constructed in some city.

I know there are more important things to finance in Germany, but there should always be enough money to make German cities enjoyable to live in.
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Old March 22nd, 2015, 10:36 PM   #4825
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i've visited a few times and walked around Friedrichstadt last time in january; parts of it seemed like it needed a rehab. any plans for this?

sorry if this is off-topic, but i was wondering how the plans to renovate neighborhoods around Neumarkt would help with rebuilding.

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Old March 22nd, 2015, 11:54 PM   #4826
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^ Hi, actually large chunks of the Friedrichstadt are revitalised as we speak.
You'll find all the updates you're looking for at this thread:

http://www.stadtbild-deutschland.org...1284&pageNo=27 (APH/Stadtbild forum)
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Old March 23rd, 2015, 12:19 AM   #4827
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Another part is the environmental part. Roofs for example. A nice steep roof saves 18% of energy in an northern country. In summer the wind blows over and cools the building for free. In winter, when sun is low shining, it catches many more rays and heats the building for free. Extra storage space not mentioned. Another point is long lastingness. The roof drys way faster and the materials last way longer. Here in Canada a study showed life expectancy for shingles and 2x4s go up from 25 Years to 50 by doubling the steepness. It`s the moisture that kills everything. There was a study in Sylt/Germany where many fetched roofs exist. The life expectancy went down from 60 to 80 Years to 35. New Houses there do have still gable roofs, but not as steep as the old ones.

Same is for Ornaments: In studies done in universities in the 1830!!, recommended the use of more ornaments on buildings.

First to spread the sound waves of the horse carriages and things to make the city quite

Secondly to break down cooling wind in winter around windows.

Third to increase privacy. Some deep windows would allow privacy better.

Fourth to increase spirituality as well as the feel of local belonging and therefore better health

Fifth to keep cold rain water of the walls. Stucco lets the water drop of the wall.

Sixth to save money for not having to repaint the exterior wall all the time. The stucco would take the hit.

Seventh to increase the appeal: The stucco will look weathered, witch gives the building grace and does not look run down, but the walls keep their fresh look longer.

Eighth for health: No mold will find moisture to hold on to.

Ninth to copy the new won wealth from the industrial revolution seen in castles and to spread it to all classes of society.

Tenth to make higher ceilings for better air quality. Opinion of doctors.

and the eleventh: They advise to go with the fashion. I was blown when i read this. Thats what our ancestors had for debates!
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Old March 23rd, 2015, 01:06 AM   #4828
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^ Very interesting stuff, but could you direct us to some references/sources for backing up your statements? Would be really helpful, thanks.
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Old March 23rd, 2015, 03:08 AM   #4829
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Originally Posted by The Eagle View Post
Another part is the environmental part. Roofs for example. A nice steep roof saves 18% of energy in an northern country. In summer the wind blows over and cools the building for free. In winter, when sun is low shining, it catches many more rays and heats the building for free. Extra storage space not mentioned. Another point is long lastingness. The roof drys way faster and the materials last way longer. Here in Canada a study showed life expectancy for shingles and 2x4s go up from 25 Years to 50 by doubling the steepness. It`s the moisture that kills everything. There was a study in Sylt/Germany where many fetched roofs exist. The life expectancy went down from 60 to 80 Years to 35. New Houses there do have still gable roofs, but not as steep as the old ones.

Same is for Ornaments: In studies done in universities in the 1830!!, recommended the use of more ornaments on buildings.

First to spread the sound waves of the horse carriages and things to make the city quite

Secondly to break down cooling wind in winter around windows.

Third to increase privacy. Some deep windows would allow privacy better.

Fourth to increase spirituality as well as the feel of local belonging and therefore better health

Fifth to keep cold rain water of the walls. Stucco lets the water drop of the wall.

Sixth to save money for not having to repaint the exterior wall all the time. The stucco would take the hit.

Seventh to increase the appeal: The stucco will look weathered, witch gives the building grace and does not look run down, but the walls keep their fresh look longer.

Eighth for health: No mold will find moisture to hold on to.

Ninth to copy the new won wealth from the industrial revolution seen in castles and to spread it to all classes of society.

Tenth to make higher ceilings for better air quality. Opinion of doctors.

and the eleventh: They advise to go with the fashion. I was blown when i read this. Thats what our ancestors had for debates!
Very interesting indeed.
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Old March 23rd, 2015, 03:59 AM   #4830
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Originally Posted by bavarian urbanist View Post
Don't you think this bashing of less well off people is a bit ignorant, too?
Not to say that I wouldn't favour a rebuild of the original buildings along Willsdruffer, but then, the city would have to build new council houses within the centre which might be rather expensive, as you can't simply throw the people out and make them move to the soulless suburbs.
No offense meant and surely you know the one's socio-economic status has nothing to do with his/her taste. I rank everyone in the same group who have chosen to willfully ignore their surroundings and not take a prideful position on maintaining its history and architectural significance.
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Old March 25th, 2015, 11:00 PM   #4831
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Dresden's economy may be booming, but it surely can't be comparable to a boom that would happen if they reconstruct large areas of the city. I mean, who wouldn't want to visit "Florence on the Elbe", a city that was one of the most beautiful, if not THE most beautiful city in Europe. The splendor of old, baroque buildings would impress every single tourist and, of course, the citizens of Dresden themselves.
Probably Dresden's cultural value (as well as number of history-seeking tourists) is large already so the marginal profit from next reconstructions is too low to justify the costs.

Keep in mind, that I personally would love to see most of Dresden reconstructed. I merely point out the economic aspect of the matter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Eagle View Post
Another part is the environmental part. Roofs for example. A nice steep roof saves 18% of energy in an northern country. In summer the wind blows over and cools the building for free. In winter, when sun is low shining, it catches many more rays and heats the building for free. Extra storage space not mentioned. Another point is long lastingness. The roof drys way faster and the materials last way longer. Here in Canada a study showed life expectancy for shingles and 2x4s go up from 25 Years to 50 by doubling the steepness. It`s the moisture that kills everything. There was a study in Sylt/Germany where many fetched roofs exist. The life expectancy went down from 60 to 80 Years to 35. New Houses there do have still gable roofs, but not as steep as the old ones.
Your post is extremely interesting and informative, but there is one thing, which I find suspicious: the flat roofs are usually made of more durable and resistant materials (concrete, metal, bricks - Ackerman's ceiling, Klein's ceiling and so on), while steep roofs are made of wooden skeleton (as they have to be lighter). And, if I'm not mistaken, the wood doesn't last as long as concrete.

Remark: personally I much prefer steep roofs over flat ones. But I find it hard to swallow that the steep ones are more durable than flat ones.
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Old March 26th, 2015, 05:00 AM   #4832
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Your post is extremely interesting and informative, but there is one thing, which I find suspicious: the flat roofs are usually made of more durable and resistant materials (concrete, metal, bricks - Ackerman's ceiling, Klein's ceiling and so on), while steep roofs are made of wooden skeleton (as they have to be lighter). And, if I'm not mistaken, the wood doesn't last as long as concrete.

Remark: personally I much prefer steep roofs over flat ones. But I find it hard to swallow that the steep ones are more durable than flat ones.
True, but concrete doesn't last that long. It ages faster. Also, steep roofs have the wood or metal framing inside not out. It`s about the water. The water, even steam or humidity destroys everything. Metal, plastic, stone and mortar. Is it not funny that our salesmen come every five years and tell us that they have something better developed? If it would work, we would not need that. The oldest roofing beams I know of are now 600 to 700 Years old. Different places. Germany, Austria, Italy. They smoked their roof on purpose or while smoking some meat. The smoke goes in all cracks and shows all air leaks. Three - four times smocking and the beam is converted with resistant film that stops bacteria. Bacteria also need water.

The beams can be metal, too. Metal has the problem with fire. It does not burn, but it moves and bents when hot. Mighty wood beams are in need of certain heat to catch fire and they don't move until there consumed. There was a fire recently of a timber framed house at lake constance. One corner had metal frame. That corner gave in and destroyed the whole house. Made out of wood, the fire report stated, fire department would have had 30-40 minutes more to extinguish the fire.

The oldest exterior roof was a church tower somewhere in Thuringia they just replaced 3 Years ago. It was original 500 Years of age. It was made out of lead. Lead is heavy. Lead is expansive and will get stolen or recycled. Lead is not good for your health, if it leaks into water.

The oldest roofs are stone and metal. They have to be of good quality and thickness. The support below is not so much a factor. (See the pyramids)
He he, just jocking. Concrete lasts only about 40 Years. The swiss tunnels have concrete that lasts 100 with insurance warranty.

Put together: It lasts if it stays dry!
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Old March 29th, 2015, 11:59 AM   #4833
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And, if I'm not mistaken, the wood doesn't last as long as concrete.
it depends. If wood is well preserved it can last for decades. For example railroad ties can last for 20-25 years, considering that they are constantly under very harsh weather conditions. Then compare it to beams under the roof.

Concrete roof can last long, but concrete is porous and actually it is not good moisture barrier. To protect it you need to cover it with additional materials which often need to be replaced every few years.

I've once read that most long lasting construction of house or small building is brick (also with brick facade) building with steep wooden roof covered with ceramic or stone tiles.
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Old March 29th, 2015, 10:06 PM   #4834
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Some new photos of construction site??
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Old March 30th, 2015, 04:52 AM   #4835
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it depends. If wood is well preserved it can last for decades. For example railroad ties can last for 20-25 years, considering that they are constantly under very harsh weather conditions. Then compare it to beams under the roof.

Concrete roof can last long, but concrete is porous and actually it is not good moisture barrier. To protect it you need to cover it with additional materials which often need to be replaced every few years.

I've once read that most long lasting construction of house or small building is brick (also with brick facade) building with steep wooden roof covered with ceramic or stone tiles.
Just as the Eagle put forth. Thanks!
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Old March 30th, 2015, 05:13 AM   #4836
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Dresden's economy may be booming, but it surely can't be comparable to a boom that would happen if they reconstruct large areas of the city. I mean, who wouldn't want to visit "Florence on the Elbe", a city that was one of the most beautiful, if not THE most beautiful city in Europe. The splendor of old, baroque buildings would impress every single tourist and, of course, the citizens of Dresden themselves.
Yes, it would impress every tourist. But also, Dresden's location is ideal for business and corporate conferences. Central Europe will become increasingly significant for business as the nations of eastern Europe continue to grow and eventually prosper. Dresden has a central location, with Leipzig. It is a German city, but with close proximity to Austria, Poland and the Czech republic. I think it would be very attractive for businesses.
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Old March 30th, 2015, 09:34 AM   #4837
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Some new photos of construction site??
Some photos here are reposted from a certain blog, named http://www.neumarkt-dresden.de/ Photos are updated there every month, to see them click left on Aktuelle fotos
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Old March 30th, 2015, 12:05 PM   #4838
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Most pics in here are reposted from: http://www.bausituation-dresden.de/

User wrba is doing such a great job, that hardly any other Dresdener feels motivated to go out and take pictures, because that guy will probably always be faster. In addition, the Dresden community of the German SSC forum established its own forum in 2012. Because they also founded an organisation for building culture and wanted to have their own forum within that. Check it here, it's called StadtbilDD (a wordplay on Stadtbild=cityscape and the abbrev. of Dresden=DD): http://stadtbildd.de

Another place for regular updates is the classical architecture APH-Forum: Architecture pro homine - Dresden

Esp. Quartier VII/2 is interesting right now.
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Old March 30th, 2015, 12:50 PM   #4839
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Thanks, guys.

I hope that I will visit Dresden one day. It is such a beautiful city.
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Old March 30th, 2015, 04:27 PM   #4840
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I am going there June 1th - 3rd. I will take pic's.
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