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Old June 4th, 2015, 07:20 PM   #4941
Mruczek
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erbse View Post
I think that's a time issue (we're still rather close to the Belle Epoque) and it's changing rapidly already. Just have a look at the revitalization thread or this Leipzig thread, how carefully some long gone historicist details or even whole buildings are reconstructed.
This is restoring value of already existing buildings. Still cannot be compared with reconstruction from the scratch - as the Old Town in Dresden.

One more difference: reconstructed Old Town houses in Dresden have mostly modern interiors - it's extremely difficuly, often impossible, to reconstruct the interiors. That is mostly extrernal look that makes the artistic and historical value of the building.

These 19th centure Gruenderzeit buildings, even if completely decapitalised, still maintained some valuable interiors. Even if external walls were stripped from ornament / devastated / left in desolation / "modernised" by the "Entstuckung", still some "spirit of place" maintained. For example wooden staircase towers, gates and doors, roof construction, stucco and so on. Restoring external ornament is important and necessary, obviously, to make house posh, but it is interiors that really matter. Because they are original.

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Of course, much of our cities were actually built during that time, so we got swathes of the historicist style, even in destroyed/modernist-riddled places.
Precisely. The volume of still existing 19th century historicism is so large that any larger reconstruction projects are completely not feasible.

Perhaps it's bad, perhaps it's sad, but that's how it works.
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Old June 10th, 2015, 03:50 PM   #4942
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Originally Posted by Mruczek View Post
Precisely. The volume of still existing 19th century historicism is so large that any larger reconstruction projects are completely not feasible.

Perhaps it's bad, perhaps it's sad, but that's how it works.
That's too bad, because in some instances, 19th century architecture is an integral part of the fabric of the area to be reconstructed.
For instance, this once stood on the north side of what is today Wilsdruffer-Strasse. Earlier, it was the intersection of Johann-Strasse and Moritz-Strasse. In the distance is the north side of the Altmarkt; the Neumarkt is to the right:
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Old June 10th, 2015, 04:22 PM   #4943
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In a potential reconstruction of the whole city (never going to happen, unfortunately), I would probably support the reconstruction of the buildings that stood there before the enlargement of the Wilsdruffer Street. Those historicist buildings are beautiful and awesome, but many important baroque buildings were destroyed for their construction, which would be silly today because the cars would probably be banned in historical center, as in any other larger city.
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Old June 13th, 2015, 03:20 AM   #4944
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Could you elaborate on this, please? I'd like to know what kind of a person would do such a thing. It's almost like vandalism.
I meant to say that if an investor (small family business of big investors alike) likes to build the "fillers" in neo historical, that design committee of dresden always puts that down. They have the right to do that by the city! That, of course is not nice and some investors question to change that. Now it happens that the committee has it`s limits to tell what`s right. But everyone knows that this committee (made up on purpose by the city with hard core modern architects) starts cheating. They put so many stones in way for anyone who likes to use neo historical. I am not making this up, folks. Evan the catholic church, rebuild one plot, took legal action.

There are five new law suits in progress. The latest joke is the city demanding unopenable windows next to that Kultur Palast. The apartments will loose value. The investor believes it`s an excuse for old fashioned design he wanted to put there first.
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Old June 13th, 2015, 12:47 PM   #4945
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That's too bad, because in some instances, 19th century architecture is an integral part of the fabric of the area to be reconstructed. That's too bad, because in some instances, 19th century architecture is an integral part of the fabric of the area to be reconstructed.
For instance, this once stood on the north side of what is today Wilsdruffer-Strasse. Earlier, it was the intersection of Johann-Strasse and Moritz-Strasse. In the distance is the north side of the Altmarkt; the Neumarkt is to the right
Yeah, marvellous, but it will never be rebuild (without destroying present Wilsdruffer). The same or similar buildings (real and existing) can be found on the other bank of Elbe and are waiting for proper revitalisation.
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Old June 14th, 2015, 12:58 AM   #4946
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... this committee (made up on purpose by the city with hard core modern architects) .....

I don't know how it works there, but in the US elected officials who don't do the public's bidding can be replaced. It doesn't always happen, since corruption is part of any human endeavor, but those responsible for the makeup of what is apparently an unpopular civic organ (the design committee) could be targeted in an election. Perhaps Mr. Bl÷bel should run for mayor. Dresdners on this thread, would you vote for him?
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Old June 14th, 2015, 01:10 AM   #4947
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Yeah, marvellous, but it will never be rebuild (without destroying present Wilsdruffer). The same or similar buildings (real and existing) can be found on the other bank of Elbe and are waiting for proper revitalisation.
Similar, yes; same, not so much. Generally smaller and less expensive, originally. This one, though, is pretty grand, NW corner of Bautzner-Strasse and Rothenburger-Strasse:

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Old June 14th, 2015, 01:18 AM   #4948
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I don't know how it works there, but in the US elected officials who don't do the public's bidding can be replaced. It doesn't always happen, since corruption is part of any human endeavor, but those responsible for the makeup of what is apparently an unpopular civic organ (the design committee) could be targeted in an election. Perhaps Mr. Bl÷bel should run for mayor. Dresdners on this thread, would you vote for him?
With all due respect, US elected officials aren't good in reconstruction of cities (which hadn't been destroyed in the first place)
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Old June 14th, 2015, 08:47 AM   #4949
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With all due respect, US elected officials aren't good in reconstruction of cities (which hadn't been destroyed in the first place)
I'm going to disagree. The historic hearts of American cities were destroyed under the guise of "Urban Renewal" in the 1950s - 1970s as effectively as if they had been bombed. Denver, Colorado is a prime example. Entire downtown blocks that were built up in the 1880s & 1890s were bulldozed, historic public buildings, such as the Tabor Opera House, old City Hall, and the Mining Exchange Building were demolished and replaced with oceans of desolate parking lots that remained for decades. In adjacent Capitol Hill, scores of magnificent mansions were demolished and replaced with either 1950s-1960s apartment buildings or, again, parking lots.

It wasn't until the early 1970s that the horror began to sink in and grass roots efforts began at historic preservation. The tide of destruction was stemmed, but so much was lost, and continues to be lost through demolition or neglect (Detroit's Michigan Central Station, for example). And, unlike what's happening in Dresden and Berlin, none of what was lost to "Urban Renewal" has been replaced to my knowledge.
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Old June 14th, 2015, 12:17 PM   #4950
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Yeah, parkinglotization is actually a problem that seems to be much more prominent in the US, but we got our fair share of that here, too.(often in the form of multi-stories, but those tend to look really bad from a pedestrian perspective as well)
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Old June 14th, 2015, 03:10 PM   #4951
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There is a very ugly brutalist building that one can see from the Greek revival building at the front of the Zwinger palace that is about six or seven stories, has graffiti in all the windows and has been abandoned for several years. I think the new post office was built near it. Does anyone know what is going to happen to it? I wish I could find a picture.
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Old June 14th, 2015, 03:22 PM   #4952
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It's about to be torn down.

That's the peccable beauty at Postplatz, a former post & Telekom building:


https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...b%C3%A4ude.JPG


https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...tz-Telekom.jpg


The Postplatz in 1913:


https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...irche_1913.jpg
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Old June 14th, 2015, 06:43 PM   #4953
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6/14/2015

Took some photos from the Frauenkirche of the constructions in the center while visiting this beautiful city.







Don't know the rules but if you want me to resize msg me!

Prost!
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Old June 14th, 2015, 07:21 PM   #4954
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustinHerman View Post
I'm going to disagree. The historic hearts of American cities were destroyed under the guise of "Urban Renewal" in the 1950s - 1970s as effectively as if they had been bombed. Denver, Colorado is a prime example. Entire downtown blocks that were built up in the 1880s & 1890s were bulldozed, historic public buildings, such as the Tabor Opera House, old City Hall, and the Mining Exchange Building were demolished and replaced with oceans of desolate parking lots that remained for decades. In adjacent Capitol Hill, scores of magnificent mansions were demolished and replaced with either 1950s-1960s apartment buildings or, again, parking lots.

It wasn't until the early 1970s that the horror began to sink in and grass roots efforts began at historic preservation. The tide of destruction was stemmed, but so much was lost, and continues to be lost through demolition or neglect (Detroit's Michigan Central Station, for example). And, unlike what's happening in Dresden and Berlin, none of what was lost to "Urban Renewal" has been replaced to my knowledge.
All right, point taken

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I find some perverse beauty in it
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Old June 14th, 2015, 07:35 PM   #4955
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I don't, I just find it perverse.
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Old June 14th, 2015, 07:41 PM   #4956
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I guess it's to be considered brutalist in every sense of the word.
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Old June 14th, 2015, 11:41 PM   #4957
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erbse View Post
It's about to be torn down.

That's the peccable beauty at Postplatz, a former post & Telekom building:


https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...b%C3%A4ude.JPG


https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...tz-Telekom.jpg


The Postplatz in 1913:


https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...irche_1913.jpg
That's the one! Erbse you are the best!
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Old June 15th, 2015, 12:37 AM   #4958
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Thanks for the aerials Bosi! Great to see some visitor's pics again. Hope more forumers will visit lovely Dresden soon, too.


In general, "mood pics" of the finished Neumarkt parts became a little rare here.
So let's relax for a moment, lean back...


Neumarkt, Dresden by Mike B in Colorado, auf Flickr


Germany - Dresden - Neumarkt - 12 10 2014 by Redstone Hill, auf Flickr


Dresdner Ansichten VII by Andreas Issleib, auf Flickr

Dresden Neumarkt by Denis Bocquet, auf Flickr


Dresden_Okt_10_28.JPG by Joachim Bomann, auf Flickr

2014-10-16 10-20 Dresden 039 Neumarkt, Frauenkirche by Allie_Caulfield, auf Flickr

2009-06-11 06-14 Dresden 076 Neumarkt by Allie_Caulfield, auf Flickr

d neumarkt by damian entwistle, auf Flickr

Frauenkirche Dresden by Sven Wusch, auf Flickr

Beautiful Dresden by Hagens_world, auf Flickr

Dresden/Sachsen - Frauenkirche by Jorbasa Fotografie, auf Flickr

Inside reconstructed Frauenkirche:

Dresden - Frauenkirche Inside (stitch) by Robert Wirrmann, auf Flickr


Dresden by Ralf, auf Flickr
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Old June 15th, 2015, 02:08 AM   #4959
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Ohhh, I so want to see Dresden filled with these Baroque buildings, such a shame for Germany and Europe it is. Maybe one day we will get our beautiful city back... And it will be here to STAY!
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Old June 15th, 2015, 09:56 PM   #4960
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great threat, this is one of my favorite cities
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