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Old July 13th, 2015, 11:37 PM   #5041
Opulentus
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Perhaps I should of used the word 'kitsch'. Almost all buildings look at least slightly kitschy when first constructed, weathering improves everything - makes it look slightly more authentic in a sense. Also, this was posted by someone as an example of a reconstruction going on outside of Dresden.
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Old July 14th, 2015, 05:04 PM   #5042
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I think the word 'kitsch' should be avoided, as it was popularised by Marxist cultural critics like Clement Greenberg who wanted to disparage anything rooted in tradition and heritage. Almost to make anyone feel guilty for wanting ornamentation etc.

I agree, though, that a bit of weathering can enhance a building, that doesn't look right being too new. Age lends a bit of patina to the stone, etc. Clasical building improve with age, unlike 'modernist' ones, which rely on pristine-ness for their effect.
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Old July 14th, 2015, 05:19 PM   #5043
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Originally Posted by cilindr0 View Post
Answer to my own question, here it is the actual state of this strange reconstruction:


It looks like it's packed in polystyrene. The planned glass box (abandoned scheme?) seems even more pointless since there is nothing much original to keep away from the weather. It would only make sense if it were flooded and had fish swimming around the ruin.
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Old July 15th, 2015, 11:00 AM   #5044
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I think the word 'kitsch' should be avoided, as it was popularised by Marxist cultural critics like Clement Greenberg who wanted to disparage anything rooted in tradition and heritage. Almost to make anyone feel guilty for wanting ornamentation etc.
Should we avoid the word "bad" as well? Kitsch does exist despite of what marxists considered by it. Of course, everyone has his/her own vision of kitsch but that's as usual.
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Old July 15th, 2015, 11:04 PM   #5045
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I agree, proportions look slightly off. Perhaps a few years of weathering will improve it.
I think the proportions look alright and are afaik original (19th century neo-renaissance that is). The material could use, as you say, a bit weathering though.
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Old July 16th, 2015, 02:11 AM   #5046
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Hopefully, those proportions will be impetus to rebuild Sophienkirche. With the memorial erected, rebuilding the church seems so tantalizingly possible.
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Old July 16th, 2015, 05:37 AM   #5047
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Any information on the above scene? I think it's a view southish from the tower of the Rathausturm. Are there any pre-war photos of this view? Is the area featured likely to undergo any reconstruction? Hard to tell much about what the buildings looked like before their ruination in the bombing from the top picture alone...
Holy shit thats depressing and also an amazing photo. So much history lost due to stupidity and right wing nationalism. Idiots.
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Old July 16th, 2015, 05:34 PM   #5048
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Holy shit thats depressing and also an amazing photo. So much history lost due to stupidity and right wing nationalism. Idiots.
And the reactionary nationalism and stupidity of Great Britain, USA, France and USSR--right and left--didn't do their fair share to create the losses? I think so.
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Old July 16th, 2015, 09:42 PM   #5049
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i'm more concerned about the lifes lost actually. buildings can be rebuild as we see at the Neumarkt for example. but let us not debate about failures of the past.

better visu of the Quarter planned by the GC-Group
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Old July 16th, 2015, 09:58 PM   #5050
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The innocent lives lost and the destruction of heritage on both sides were both deplorable things. No need to dwell on recriminations, though, it's just good to see the damage undone, in so far as it can be, to the beautiful city. The present generation doesn't have to answer for the actions of previous ones, and there is no reason not to restore aesthetic buildings that previous ones failed to protect, one way or another; if the money, skill and will is there.
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Old July 17th, 2015, 03:15 PM   #5051
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Holy shit thats depressing and also an amazing photo. So much history lost due to stupidity and right wing nationalism. Idiots.
Easy on the right wing stuff. Hitler was a socialist. The word Nazi is an acronym which includes the word socialist in it. Socialism = more government control, right wing = less. Which do you think comes closer to describing the Nazi regime? That said, I agree with your sentiments.
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Old July 17th, 2015, 05:52 PM   #5052
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The political right doesn't want less government, it wants less services for the people. Take the US for example, which has a huge bureaucratic government machinery spending fortunes on military, industry, research and all kinds of government agencies. In fact government spending in the US is probably greater than in most European countries, however, the money goes to different purposes.

Ideologically speaking national socialism saw socialism and communism as its deadliest enemies. They very much supported private businesses and industry. The nazis did in their pursue of a strong unified nation take employment and the welfare of the people (the right kind) very seriously which would make them "socialist" as well.
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Old July 17th, 2015, 06:05 PM   #5053
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DIENSTAG, 14. JULI 2015 - Quartier IV/3 Frieseneck Landhausstraße









http://www.bausituation-dresden.de/2...rieseneck.html
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Ο κάθε λαός έχει το κράτος και την κυβέρνηση που του αξίζει. Καθρέφτης λαού, ἄστη αυτού.

如果希腊国民继续信阴谋论,外资救世主的,不为自己的行为负责, 他们会灭亡。

人は何かの犠牲なしに何も得ることはできない。何かを得るためには同等の代価が必要になる。それが、生活における等価交換の原則だ。その頃僕らは、それが世界の真実だと信じていた。時間は、最も貴重な資源である。だから、誰の時間もあなたは無駄にしてはいけないし、誰もが他の人の時間を無駄にしないでください。
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Old July 17th, 2015, 06:06 PM   #5054
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MITTWOCH, 15. JULI 2015 - Quartier VII/2













http://www.bausituation-dresden.de/2...kt-q-vii2.html
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Ο κάθε λαός έχει το κράτος και την κυβέρνηση που του αξίζει. Καθρέφτης λαού, ἄστη αυτού.

如果希腊国民继续信阴谋论,外资救世主的,不为自己的行为负责, 他们会灭亡。

人は何かの犠牲なしに何も得ることはできない。何かを得るためには同等の代価が必要になる。それが、生活における等価交換の原則だ。その頃僕らは、それが世界の真実だと信じていた。時間は、最も貴重な資源である。だから、誰の時間もあなたは無駄にしてはいけないし、誰もが他の人の時間を無駄にしないでください。
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Old July 17th, 2015, 06:09 PM   #5055
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Neumarkt Dresden - Impressionen Juli 2015















http://www.dresdner-bauten.de/2015/0...juli-2015.html
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Ο κάθε λαός έχει το κράτος και την κυβέρνηση που του αξίζει. Καθρέφτης λαού, ἄστη αυτού.

如果希腊国民继续信阴谋论,外资救世主的,不为自己的行为负责, 他们会灭亡。

人は何かの犠牲なしに何も得ることはできない。何かを得るためには同等の代価が必要になる。それが、生活における等価交換の原則だ。その頃僕らは、それが世界の真実だと信じていた。時間は、最も貴重な資源である。だから、誰の時間もあなたは無駄にしてはいけないし、誰もが他の人の時間を無駄にしないでください。
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Old July 17th, 2015, 06:11 PM   #5056
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Easy on the right wing stuff. Hitler was a socialist. The word Nazi is an acronym which includes the word socialist in it. Socialism = more government control, right wing = less. Which do you think comes closer to describing the Nazi regime? That said, I agree with your sentiments.
I agree to all of those pleas that this is no political forum, but I just can´t resist:

Marx´ communism actually is anarchistic (against government) but believes a transitional phase of dictatorial transfer is necessary after revolt. The main stupidity therin, most agree, is one of grave naivism. Free the people from the evil government, and they´ll all live like in the garden of Eden! Since this state, peculiarly enough, always fails to install itself subsequent to revolution, dictatorship ensues on permanent basis in all communist systems. This, off course, also to protect the "humanist communist anarchy" from internal and external threat. Many "socialists" skip revolution, desillusioned as to humanity, they go for permanent redistribution of wealth and equality (but making the unequal equal is discrimination!) as replacement for the utopian anarchy, which, who knowns, may still one day be possible if capitalist misuse of power is kept at bay.

Nazism means national socialism, yes, but has social darwinism as agenda. That is, they believe in no such thing as a peaceful anarchy. They want an ruling anarchy for the adaptive and prevailing, which to each time has the right and moral duty to further the rotting out of perceived "degenerative elements". Implicit is an illisionary idea of an "elitist anarchy" justifying the power over the rest through "superiority", yes, but even the dominate elite of today cannot feel safe of belonging to it tomorrow.

Nazism, defined as above, is an ideology so bad that not even the right wing racist of present europe can be criticized of embracing it. These are mostly white rednecks ineptly trying to protect an identity they see as valuable and prideful against threatenting elements. As such, naming them right wing means hijacking that term from poltical conservativism, which essentially holds that humanity have the potential in them to mature into being better off with less government. Reducing governmental intervention in society should thus be gradually implemented without rotting out anything pre-existing (that is, conservatively), based on experience, since pre-existing structures always arose for a reason. To any grounded, political conservativist, anarchy, if at all a topic, is so wildly futuristic as to remain utopian.
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Old July 17th, 2015, 10:42 PM   #5057
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I agree to all of those pleas that this is no political forum, but I just can´t resist:

Marx´ communism actually is anarchistic (against government) but believes a transitional phase of dictatorial transfer is necessary after revolt. The main stupidity therin, most agree, is one of grave naivism. Free the people from the evil government, and they´ll all live like in the garden of Eden! Since this state, peculiarly enough, always fails to install itself subsequent to revolution, dictatorship ensues on permanent basis in all communist systems. This, off course, also to protect the "humanist communist anarchy" from internal and external threat. Many "socialists" skip revolution, desillusioned as to humanity, they go for permanent redistribution of wealth and equality (but making the unequal equal is discrimination!) as replacement for the utopian anarchy, which, who knowns, may still one day be possible if capitalist misuse of power is kept at bay.

Nazism means national socialism, yes, but has social darwinism as agenda. That is, they believe in no such thing as a peaceful anarchy. They want an ruling anarchy for the adaptive and prevailing, which to each time has the right and moral duty to further the rotting out of perceived "degenerative elements". Implicit is an illisionary idea of an "elitist anarchy" justifying the power over the rest through "superiority", yes, but even the dominate elite of today cannot feel safe of belonging to it tomorrow.

Nazism, defined as above, is an ideology so bad that not even the right wing racist of present europe can be criticized of embracing it. These are mostly white rednecks ineptly trying to protect an identity they see as valuable and prideful against threatenting elements. As such, naming them right wing means hijacking that term from poltical conservativism, which essentially holds that humanity have the potential in them to mature into being better off with less government. Reducing governmental intervention in society should thus be gradually implemented without rotting out anything pre-existing (that is, conservatively), based on experience, since pre-existing structures always arose for a reason. To any grounded, political conservativist, anarchy, if at all a topic, is so wildly futuristic as to remain utopian.
It's Friday, so a little diversion is harmless.

Good points. However, in the US, many of the existing governmental social structures were put into effect for reasons that were not good, such as bribery for votes, and bad reasons ought not be sustained.

And you are so correct...the left has effectively been able to label as 'right wing radicals' any form of conservative ideology and positions. Their propaganda has worked. This is why RobertWood was also correct in his post; nazism was as far left as as far right since the political spectrum is not linear, rather circular...wherein the nazis and leftists meet in the same, evil place.
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Old July 17th, 2015, 11:26 PM   #5058
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by the way WhiteMagick, wonderful shots!
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Old July 18th, 2015, 01:23 AM   #5059
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Words cannot express how much Dresden inspires me.
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Old July 18th, 2015, 03:17 PM   #5060
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Good points. However, in the US, many of the existing governmental social structures were put into effect for reasons that were not good, such as bribery for votes, and bad reasons ought not be sustained.

And you are so correct...the left has effectively been able to label as 'right wing radicals' any form of conservative ideology and positions. Their propaganda has worked. This is why RobertWood was also correct in his post; nazism was as far left as as far right since the political spectrum is not linear, rather circular...wherein the nazis and leftists meet in the same, evil place.
Interesting idea, that circularity, although I won´t buy it unchewed. Communist dictatorships may in practice be as evil as Nazi dictatorships - since it may allow paranoids like Stalin and Mr. Pyongyang jr. to get to power (the latter got to power as if by a monarchist standard, however, having nothing to do with actual communism - yet that just highlights communism´s problem). Still, the ideology of Nazism is more evil than that of Marxism, which is merely inept - or, if one sides with Mr. Reagan: a "Mickey Mouse system".

Additionally, in order to claim circularity, one must prove that nazism is sensibly describable as "extremest political right". I´d tend to see it as nihilistic - that is: outside of any otherwise defineable scale or terminology - which mostly represents what system people believe is the most humanitarian. It is an extreme nationalism, but then even milder nationalism is just an egocentric enthusiasm, no philosophy of politics.

Your are very right that political conservativism sometimes is used to conserve ungood practices, even directly or indirectly racist ones. Hence, that some leftist come to the idea of calling the right wing racist is not taken 100% out of the air. That is why, in the anglo-saxon sphere where political conservativism has its roots, liberalism (its word stem meaning "freedom") is an equally important word.

There must be liberalism within the conservativism. Otherwise, even a communist or a traditional feudal system could be conservative. I have the impression, however, that in the US, the word liberal is taken by some conservatives to imply "leftist", that is - pro redistribution and forced equality. To me such a link is not just artificial, but harming.
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